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Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread

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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#721 » by Juco24 » Fri Aug 2, 2019 12:51 am

K-DOT wrote:I mean, I'm excited to see what he can do this year

3rd year, usually around the time guys break out. Really only needs his jumper to come along and he'll be fine

Him and RJ could be a pretty fun backcourt if we develop them right


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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#722 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Aug 2, 2019 1:47 am

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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#723 » by Zenzibar » Fri Aug 2, 2019 1:53 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
TheBigBoss wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
He wasn't walking down Broadway with a sandwich board declaring imminent playoff seeds. They were posting on a forum for hoops maniacs so not sure why you need to temper them.

AFAIK:

we're probably the deepest team in the East. We upgraded every position to the point we can field two full units and wear out other teams

we already have several players who would start on the other clubs in our conference

Randle looks like a star ready to break out and he looks fit as fuq

DSJr's shot does look fixed so our backcourt is starting to look very competitive. Payton/DSJr? That's a starting backcourt that can compete with any team in our conference and that doesn't even begin to consider our depth there with RJ taking some big guard duties

By my count we have almost a full roster with significant upside that can manifest this season once you subtract proven players like Taj, Morris and Ellington. Every other player on the roster ranges from having some upside to breakout potential

Long story short, with this kind of depth and upside, at least 7-8, i.e. half of the 15 players on the rosters, are poised to have their best seasons yet in the NBA

What's so great about the Eastern Conference that they can't compete for a playoff berth?

All it takes is rational analysis of the players we actually have now instead of falling back on defeated attitudes from being a beaten up Knicks fan and it is easy to say they should be able to play .500 ball with halfway decent coaching.

So IDGAF about tempering expectations. Different strokes for different fans is what I say. Let people get excited if they want to


Could RJ and DSJ develop into a Clyde/Earl type of backcourt if they reach their potential?


Hmmm, well perhaps RJ could bring some of the Clyde, but Earl was a very different player from Dennis.

Could they become as good a duo? That's a reach because Clyde was one of the greatest PGs of all time, but I think they could become a championship caliber backcourt.

RJ may be fairly cerebral which is why some thought the T-Mac comp may hold up due to way they play (T-Mac was more physically gifted though).

But Dennis is mostly instinctive from what I can see. Earl was more cerebral than he is given credit for. He was Clyde's enemy and when they joined up he conceded the playmaking duties to Frazier, but Earl could run an offense too. Mostly he was a SG.

I wouldn't comp these guys to Clyde and Earl particularly, though I do see a bit of Clyde potential in RJ because he seems fairly aware of where his teammates are on the floor and at his size he can pass over and around to hit them. Clyde was a fairly big guard for his era and he did the same.



Dug this and your previous post ALOT!

As far as depth you hit it out thr park. Not even the media has acknowledged this fact due to the "dumb franchise" status we've been labeled with.

Alluding to your point, Perry put together the most complete roster in the East.
One where practice may be more physical than actual games.

As far as Clyde/Pearl comparisons. Recalling how the Pearl and Clyde would go at it. Pearl couldn't be stopped not even by Frazier. Against the Knicks, Pearl may get 35-40, but Clyde would have the better all around game: 26 points, 11 assists and 3 steals.

Call me crazy but I always liked the Ntilikina first year defense with a much nicer jumper comparisons.

Clyde never dunked, very methodical, brainy and smooth as fk. Seems like he always made that big play, that pass, that key steal, pump fake, hit the jumper and get fouled play.

Monroe? Wow, that to me would be more Trier-like.
Slick to the hoop, double-pump-in-the-air you to death, great short game and black-top handle. Earl was just too dazzling for a current comparison. IMO
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#724 » by Nazrmohamed » Fri Aug 2, 2019 11:56 am

To be very honest I dont know anything about Earl the Pearl Monroe and I dont think most fans outside those who got to witness it live really know much about him either. At least from the Knicks POV it seems we pay more attention to Clyde. I do believe it's somewhat warranted since we drafted him and he spent more time with us here. Not to mention I do believe he was the better player but they dont really tall about Earl enough other than to say he was some other teams scoring PG who we traded for and ran a 2 pg lineup. I sense it was sorta like Jeter/Arod except Earl was better received and accepted?

Idk, someone educate me. I mean. I could look up stats and I know they won a title. But I dokt know the culture of the time, significance of what it felt like to share a backcourt. I have no frame of reference in terms of the mood of the fanbase and media perception around the pairing
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#725 » by Zenzibar » Fri Aug 2, 2019 1:21 pm

Nazrmohamed wrote:To be very honest I dont know anything about Earl the Pearl Monroe and I dont think most fans outside those who got to witness it live really know much about him either. At least from the Knicks POV it seems we pay more attention to Clyde. I do believe it's somewhat warranted since we drafted him and he spent more time with us here. Not to mention I do believe he was the better player but they dont really tall about Earl enough other than to say he was some other teams scoring PG who we traded for and ran a 2 pg lineup. I sense it was sorta like Jeter/Arod except Earl was better received and accepted?

Idk, someone educate me. I mean. I could look up stats and I know they won a title. But I dokt know the culture of the time, significance of what it felt like to share a backcourt. I have no frame of reference in terms of the mood of the fanbase and media perception around the pairing



From what I vaguely remember, it wasn't peaches and cream. Earl had peaked and more of a volume scorer but the league was changing. There was a need to get Clyde some scoring punch and it could get no better than Earl "the Pearl" Monroe.
The very conservative style of the Knicks then was like the Utah Jazz today. Very deliberate, but defense like Ray Lewis' Baltimore Ravens (without the overt celebrations) and one that Pat Riley would try to mimic once in NY.

Hence Monroe's numbers would decline to under 20 a game. While the media would harp on this as Pearl falling of, it was Red Holtzman's Princeton style of offense. Better to win scoring 90 than lose scoring 120.

Pearl had to defer to Clyde and it took A LOT of personal sacrifices to make it successful. Back to back trips to the Finals (1-1) showed Red Holtzman handled the huge egos right, inarguably going down as one of the top 5 backcourts in NBA history.
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#726 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Aug 2, 2019 3:01 pm

Zenzibar wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
TheBigBoss wrote:
Could RJ and DSJ develop into a Clyde/Earl type of backcourt if they reach their potential?


Hmmm, well perhaps RJ could bring some of the Clyde, but Earl was a very different player from Dennis.

Could they become as good a duo? That's a reach because Clyde was one of the greatest PGs of all time, but I think they could become a championship caliber backcourt.

RJ may be fairly cerebral which is why some thought the T-Mac comp may hold up due to way they play (T-Mac was more physically gifted though).

But Dennis is mostly instinctive from what I can see. Earl was more cerebral than he is given credit for. He was Clyde's enemy and when they joined up he conceded the playmaking duties to Frazier, but Earl could run an offense too. Mostly he was a SG.

I wouldn't comp these guys to Clyde and Earl particularly, though I do see a bit of Clyde potential in RJ because he seems fairly aware of where his teammates are on the floor and at his size he can pass over and around to hit them. Clyde was a fairly big guard for his era and he did the same.



Dug this and your previous post ALOT!

As far as depth you hit it out thr park. Not even the media has acknowledged this fact due to the "dumb franchise" status we've been labeled with.

Alluding to your point, Perry put together the most complete roster in the East.
One where practice may be more physical than actual games.

As far as Clyde/Pearl comparisons. Recalling how the Pearl and Clyde would go at it. Pearl couldn't be stopped not even by Frazier. Against the Knicks, Pearl may get 35-40, but Clyde would have the better all around game: 26 points, 11 assists and 3 steals.

Call me crazy but I always liked the Ntilikina first year defense with a much nicer jumper comparisons.

Clyde never dunked, very methodical, brainy and smooth as fk. Seems like he always made that big play, that pass, that key steal, pump fake, hit the jumper and get fouled play.

Monroe? Wow, that to me would be more Trier-like.
Slick to the hoop, double-pump-in-the-air you to death, great short game and black-top handle. Earl was just too dazzling for a current comparison. IMO


Aw shucks. Thanks

Yeah, Clyde was never the explosive type, more stealth and deception and smoothness with a change of gear.

Pearl was just naturally slick, had Spiderman hands that treated the ball like a yo-yo on a string. Closest current player to him is Kyrie, but Earl was a better player.

That backcourt was just perfect.
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#727 » by 3toheadmelo » Sat Aug 3, 2019 2:08 am

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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#728 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Aug 7, 2019 12:51 pm

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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#729 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Aug 7, 2019 3:06 pm

More footage
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#730 » by Ray Williams » Wed Aug 7, 2019 3:55 pm

With his improved shooting and a little effort on defense, if he can average 6 dimes he’s an all star.
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#731 » by blueNorange » Wed Aug 7, 2019 9:40 pm

i'm watching robinson's little show and he has kadeem allen on it, and kadeem keeps calling dsj 'june'.
LOL Y U MAD THO?
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#732 » by bearadonisdna » Wed Aug 7, 2019 10:19 pm

Zenzibar wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:To be very honest I dont know anything about Earl the Pearl Monroe and I dont think most fans outside those who got to witness it live really know much about him either. At least from the Knicks POV it seems we pay more attention to Clyde. I do believe it's somewhat warranted since we drafted him and he spent more time with us here. Not to mention I do believe he was the better player but they dont really tall about Earl enough other than to say he was some other teams scoring PG who we traded for and ran a 2 pg lineup. I sense it was sorta like Jeter/Arod except Earl was better received and accepted?

Idk, someone educate me. I mean. I could look up stats and I know they won a title. But I dokt know the culture of the time, significance of what it felt like to share a backcourt. I have no frame of reference in terms of the mood of the fanbase and media perception around the pairing



From what I vaguely remember, it wasn't peaches and cream. Earl had peaked and more of a volume scorer but the league was changing. There was a need to get Clyde some scoring punch and it could get no better than Earl "the Pearl" Monroe.
The very conservative style of the Knicks then was like the Utah Jazz today. Very deliberate, but defense like Ray Lewis' Baltimore Ravens (without the overt celebrations) and one that Pat Riley would try to mimic once in NY.

Hence Monroe's numbers would decline to under 20 a game. While the media would harp on this as Pearl falling of, it was Red Holtzman's Princeton style of offense. Better to win scoring 90 than lose scoring 120.

Pearl had to defer to Clyde and it took A LOT of personal sacrifices to make it successful. Back to back trips to the Finals (1-1) showed Red Holtzman handled the huge egos right, inarguably going down as one of the top 5 backcourts in NBA history.


Wow this is great insight.
Recently I've heard Isaiah Thomas refer to Westbrook and harden as a modern day Frasier/Monroe.

Which can be very true but it's a comparison that not many of the modern fans can relate too. Well because its basically premerger.

Since we haven't seen that rockets backcourt yet, I would say a modern contemporary would be lilliard/McCollum.
Would think Steph and klay is similar as a stacked backcourt but klay is almost a SF in my eyes.

The key to making this work imo is having these stars be interchangable. Like if Monroe is my primary offensive option I wouldn't hesitate to put him at the 1 to ensure his usage.

A lot like how I feel Westbrook should play off the ball with harden not the other way around.


How it relates to current day knicks:

It may be defeatist for a non star point guard to be allocated so much usage. Sometimes yes, sometimes no depending on matchups.

Dsj may very well be the top guard on the team , which will make you WANT him at the 1.

Mavs fans stated how Dennis flourished off the ball with Doncic, so hopefully he ready to be interchangeable as well.
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#733 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Aug 8, 2019 1:24 pm

Go on knicks IG story if u wanna see him hitting jumpers in a pick up game
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#734 » by taj2133 » Thu Aug 8, 2019 4:58 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
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I was there in fayettiville when dsj got his key city.
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#735 » by taj2133 » Thu Aug 8, 2019 5:09 pm

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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#736 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Aug 8, 2019 10:33 pm

taj2133 wrote:
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His shot is definitely transformed

They are falling very soft and kissing the net. Sometimes guys who snap the net seem the most impressive, but when a ball goes through soft like that it is a pretty good sign a guy has got a very good touch. He had the talent and now he has discovered his touch. This looks like a fine Knicks off-season if he accomplished that.
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#737 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Aug 9, 2019 1:19 am

Smurf gonna put up sum pointz
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#738 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Aug 9, 2019 1:22 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:Go on knicks IG story if u wanna see him hitting jumpers in a pick up game

Found it. Go to 1:11 in the vid. His jumper really is starting to look like Cp3
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#739 » by K-DOT » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:41 pm

So I've been having some fun with a new tool I found on stats.nba.com that allows you to see stuff like Ortg, Drtg, Netrtg, other stuff, for a player when another player is on or off the court

I was doing some digging, and I saw some stuff I expected, like Tim being an absolute black hole for advanced stats, it was pretty brutal, and so was Knox but that's to be expected. Then I thought, let me see what DSJ was about, cause I was pretty sure he was better than the numbers said

I'm going through, and turns out Mitch and DJ didn't really change much which I was surprised about given how bad DJ was for us, but then I found this:

https://stats.nba.com/vs/advanced/#!?PlayerID=1628372&VsPlayerID=1628995&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star

It's DSJ's advanced stats for when Knox was on the court with him vs off (I limited the dates to post ASB to only get DSJ's play with the Knicks). DSJ had an Ortg of 100.9 and Drtg of 113.1 when Knox was on the floor with him for a Netrtg of -12.1, which is terrible. But when DSJ wasn't sharing the court with Knox?

107 Ortg, 101.1 Drtg, +5.9 Netrtg

Meaning we were 18 points per 100 possessions better with DSJ when Knox was off the court vs on the court. That's insane to me. DSJ's also 30 points better with Dot than without. Now, to be fair, this is a pretty small sample size, but even still, I think it's big enough to show a trend. Really just shows how bad Knox was last year, but I think some of us are underrating DSJ.

Also, just as a side thought, I'm really upset we didn't get to see Frank and DSJ play together. Cause both of their advanced stats were dragged down by playing most of their minutes with terrible players statistically (Knox for DSJ, Tim for Frank), both synergized really well with Dot, both pairs (DSJ/Dot and Frank/Dot) were kind of symbiotic, in both cases both were better off with the other on, worse with the other off. So, I'd be interested to see how a DSJ/Frank/Dot lineup looks statistically. Could just be small sample sizes though, so take everything I've said with a grain of salt.
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Re: Dennis Smith, Jr. Thread 

Post#740 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:45 pm

Dennis is a bouncy guy who can change direction on the dime. Now that he can actually shoot the ball he will be hard to contain. Only thing stopping him from being a star now would be the quality of his decision making.

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