ImageImageImageImageImage

Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back?

Moderators: K-DOT, Deeeez Knicks, Capn'O, Thugger HBC, j4remi, Jeff Van Gully, mrpoetryNmotion, mpharris36, NoLayupRule, King of Canada, GONYK

User avatar
K-DOT
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 15,956
And1: 25,251
Joined: Nov 25, 2016
Location: Dante's Purgatory, 2nd Terrace
         

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#281 » by K-DOT » Thu Apr 8, 2021 2:50 pm

Read on Twitter
BAF Lakers:

Darius Garland/Tre Jones
Killian Hayes/Avery Bradley
Keldon Johnson/Cam Johnson
Saddiq Bey/Darius Bazley
Onyeka Okongwu/Bol Bol

Subscribe to NBNF!: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWW9GUVpNULS97PyptXXU4w
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 80,670
And1: 59,481
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#282 » by mpharris36 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 2:55 pm

god shammgod wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:not much is gonna change from the team until we get better guards and get rid of payton for good


i think the knicks need an actual first option even more than that. and no i don't think anyone on this team is or will ever be that. i know this is blasphemy but it is what it is.


correct, I don't think Lonzo Ball for example fixes our issues especially late in games. He isn't breaking down a defense in the half court in the last two minutes to create for himself or others.

A PG would def be nice...but a #1 option is more important so I agree. A #1 option that is a PG is ideal. So is Lillard available :lol: :lol: :lol:
BAF Spurs:

ROSTER

James Wiseman/Chris Boucher/Aleksej Pokuševski
Michael Porter Jr/Robert Williams III/Nic Batum
Bojan Bogdanovich /Isaac Okoro/Matt Thomas
RJ Barrett/Devin Vassell/Josh Green
Tyrese Haliburton/Terence Davis/PJ Dozier
User avatar
Im Coming Home
RealGM
Posts: 17,733
And1: 7,055
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
Location: Bay Shore, NY
       

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#283 » by Im Coming Home » Thu Apr 8, 2021 2:57 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:
Sark wrote:
Was that something that was ever even offered?

After the package Vuc got I would say it was close to possible. At least a top 15 pick imo
So it's imagined.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Yes because we never actually hear concrete evidence of trades until years down the road..

So we're using our big brains and realizing that Vuc is around the same value as Randle and he netted the magic a top 10 pic so.....

You can conclude that Randle could have at least netted us a top 15 or more if we were willing to take on a bad contract or something
Image
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 49,960
And1: 55,103
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#284 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:01 pm

Im Coming Home wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:After the package Vuc got I would say it was close to possible. At least a top 15 pick imo
So it's imagined.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Yes because we never actually hear concrete evidence of trades until years down the road..

So we're using our big brains and realizing that Vuc is around the same value as Randle and he netted the magic a top 10 pic so.....

You can conclude that Randle could have at least netted us a top 15 or more if we were willing to take on a bad contract or something

knicks aren't trading our all star
Bubble Champions
CavsNation
PG: Murray/Schroder
SG: Lavine/Dunn
SF: Tatum/Hart
PF: Bam/ Tate
C: Ayton/Randle


It's like when lil bitches make subliminal records,If it ain't directed directly at me,I don't respect it
User avatar
god shammgod
Knicks Forum Crazy Board Uncle
Posts: 110,246
And1: 77,757
Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Location: Longtime Blazers Fan!!!

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#285 » by god shammgod » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:07 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:not much is gonna change from the team until we get better guards and get rid of payton for good


i think the knicks need an actual first option even more than that. and no i don't think anyone on this team is or will ever be that. i know this is blasphemy but it is what it is.


correct, I don't think Lonzo Ball for example fixes our issues especially late in games. He isn't breaking down a defense in the half court in the last two minutes to create for himself or others.

A PG would def be nice...but a #1 option is more important so I agree. A #1 option that is a PG is ideal. So is Lillard available :lol: :lol: :lol:


even if he was, they'd want everything but randle for him.
Image
User avatar
god shammgod
Knicks Forum Crazy Board Uncle
Posts: 110,246
And1: 77,757
Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Location: Longtime Blazers Fan!!!

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#286 » by god shammgod » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:22 pm

Read on Twitter


i told you he aint sh*t. people were complaining about his minutes. jesus.
Image
User avatar
KnicksGod
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 62,981
And1: 24,829
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
   

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#287 » by KnicksGod » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:26 pm

I fully know how outrageous it sounds to compare Elf and Randle, but before he had his big surge this year, that's how they felt to me. Two peas in a pod. Bad unforced turnovers at bad times, mindless plays, a lack of BBIQ or talent to complete certain plays. It's starting to look like that again, despite the difference in importance/production lol.
Semi-retired Knicks fan. Image
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 62,170
And1: 34,395
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Frankie N Baby
   

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#288 » by GONYK » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:39 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Read on Twitter


i told you he aint sh*t. people were complaining about his minutes. jesus.


Iggy is a very weird player in a weird spot.

He was basically the Randle of the G-League, but no NBA team would ever play him in that role. So he's basically on the Kevin Knox track, where he either needs to become a 40% shooter from 3, or he will be out of the league.

I think he's clearly trending towards the bad end of that spectrum
rajajackal
Starter
Posts: 2,129
And1: 1,342
Joined: Nov 04, 2013

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#289 » by rajajackal » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:40 pm

KnicksGod wrote:I fully know how outrageous it sounds to compare Elf and Randle, but before he had his big surge this year, that's how they felt to me. Two peas in a pod. Bad unforced turnovers at bad times, mindless plays, a lack of BBIQ or talent to complete certain plays. It's starting to look like that again, despite the difference in importance/production lol.


randle's undoubtedly brought his skill level up and overall makes better decisions than he used to. the hard truth here is that he has been firing on all cylinders in order to overachieve and has pretty obviously topped out. i don't think we'll see a higher ceiling than we've seen this year. i'm not gonna turn on the guy, because i like him and he can still be useful down the line, but outside of the week he dropped his player's tribune article, i've been very open to selling high if we can't get a true #1 next to him quickly. you really do not want to go into randle's UFA with him as your best player. that's a trainwreck overpay waiting to happen
User avatar
god shammgod
Knicks Forum Crazy Board Uncle
Posts: 110,246
And1: 77,757
Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Location: Longtime Blazers Fan!!!

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#290 » by god shammgod » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:41 pm

KnicksGod wrote:I fully know how outrageous it sounds to compare Elf and Randle, but before he had his big surge this year, that's how they felt to me. Two peas in a pod. Bad unforced turnovers at bad times, mindless plays, a lack of BBIQ or talent to complete certain plays. It's starting to look like that again, despite the difference in importance/production lol.


overall, he was very good for most of the season. this month he's been real bad so far. shooting 38/30. only 4 games but not good. it looks like it has something to do with the level of competition. i went and looked at his game log and most of his bad shooting games are against good teams. if we looked at his combined numbers against teams over 500, they look like they're gonna be bad.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3064514/julius-randle
Image
User avatar
KnicksGod
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 62,981
And1: 24,829
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
   

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#291 » by KnicksGod » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:43 pm

rajajackal wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:I fully know how outrageous it sounds to compare Elf and Randle, but before he had his big surge this year, that's how they felt to me. Two peas in a pod. Bad unforced turnovers at bad times, mindless plays, a lack of BBIQ or talent to complete certain plays. It's starting to look like that again, despite the difference in importance/production lol.


randle's undoubtedly brought his skill level up and overall makes better decisions than he used to. the hard truth here is that he has been firing on all cylinders in order to overachieve and has pretty obviously topped out. i don't think we'll see a higher ceiling than we've seen this year. i'm not gonna turn on the guy, because i like him and he can still be useful down the line, but outside of the week he dropped his player's tribune article, i've been very open to selling high if we can't get a true #1 next to him quickly. you really do not want to go into randle's UFA with him as your best player. that's a trainwreck overpay waiting to happen


He's a good third scorer but could he subordinate his game? Not sure.
Semi-retired Knicks fan. Image
User avatar
KnicksGod
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 62,981
And1: 24,829
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
   

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#292 » by KnicksGod » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:44 pm

god shammgod wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:I fully know how outrageous it sounds to compare Elf and Randle, but before he had his big surge this year, that's how they felt to me. Two peas in a pod. Bad unforced turnovers at bad times, mindless plays, a lack of BBIQ or talent to complete certain plays. It's starting to look like that again, despite the difference in importance/production lol.


overall, he was very good for most of the season. this month he's been real bad so far. shooting 38/30. only 4 games but not good. it looks like it has something to do with the level of competition. i went and looked at his game log and most of his bad shooting games are against good teams. if we looked at his combined numbers against teams over 500, they look like they're gonna be very bad.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3064514/julius-randle


Yeah that's not a good sign. He sort of shouts out good player on a bad team. Plus 26 and 20 is a big gap.
Semi-retired Knicks fan. Image
User avatar
CharlesOakley
Veteran
Posts: 2,624
And1: 2,303
Joined: Jun 27, 2006

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#293 » by CharlesOakley » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:47 pm

Randle hasn't had it for a couple weeks. He is in a shooting slump probably do to his legs being burned from too many minutes. I would really like to see him play with an above average point guard.
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 62,170
And1: 34,395
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Frankie N Baby
   

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#294 » by GONYK » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:48 pm

god shammgod wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:I fully know how outrageous it sounds to compare Elf and Randle, but before he had his big surge this year, that's how they felt to me. Two peas in a pod. Bad unforced turnovers at bad times, mindless plays, a lack of BBIQ or talent to complete certain plays. It's starting to look like that again, despite the difference in importance/production lol.


overall, he was very good for most of the season. this month he's been real bad so far. shooting 38/30. only 4 games but not good. it looks like it has something to do with the level of competition. i went and looked at his game log and most of his bad shooting games are against good teams. if we looked at his combined numbers against teams over 500, they look like they're gonna be very bad.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3064514/julius-randle


The midrange game has stopped falling. This was always going to happen, but I think the belief was that he would compensate by getting better around the rim, since he was lagging in that area, relative to his career shooting % in the interior.

What has happened though, is that we keep playing Elfrid Payton, so Julius continues to have no spacing in the interior to operate. So now he shoots like sh*t from everywhere :lol:
User avatar
NYKinMIA
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,064
And1: 2,294
Joined: Jul 26, 2012
Location: - Snootchie Farms
 

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#295 » by NYKinMIA » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:54 pm

Fuqin Thibs driving me bat shyt with the damn elf.
User avatar
Deeeez Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 34,897
And1: 22,874
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
Location: Bar stool

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#296 » by Deeeez Knicks » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:57 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:you're not lying. at least we have some good complementary pieces with randle and rj. but they aren't enough to take us to that next level. lavine is probably the closest one to a #1 option that's gonna be available and we'll have to wait another year to even make that happen

i wonder if the knicks are gonna go after derozan instead of waiting for lavine to hit free agency. derozan isn't the answer for us but he's like the only realistic "star" we can get this free agency. im not sure how desperate they want the playoffs cause they didn't even make a move in the trade deadline


It is interesting that we didnt seem to go after anyone that hard at the deadline.

Hope we go after Ball instead of Derozan. I know he is not as good and we still would be missing that #1 option. But he would help our PG issue and if we pay him in the $20 to $22mil range we can still be in position to add a max in '22.

Doesnt seem like there will be many stars this offseason so I would be good with adding a smaller piece (Ball, Powell, etc) and taking a smaller step.


there's enough money for both


For Derozan + Ball? We do have enough money for both but then would be capped out for the foreseeable future.

I would pass on Derozan and just add Ball. Then save the max slot in our back pocket for a legit #1 guy if possible. Our window is basically this year and next before we have to reup Randle, Mitch and then RJ
Mavs
Jokic | Mahinmi | Samanic
Giannis | Kleber | Okpala
Mikal Bridges | House | CJ Elleby
Rodney Hood | E' Moore | Temple
Jrue Holiday | Derrick White | Skylar Mays
Stash
Didi
Josh Hall
Evans
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 12,957
And1: 4,176
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#297 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:57 pm

Im Coming Home wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:After the package Vuc got I would say it was close to possible. At least a top 15 pick imo
So it's imagined.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Yes because we never actually hear concrete evidence of trades until years down the road..

So we're using our big brains and realizing that Vuc is around the same value as Randle and he netted the magic a top 10 pic so.....

You can conclude that Randle could have at least netted us a top 15 or more if we were willing to take on a bad contract or something
But Vuc is also a viable center. Much rarer than a PF like Randle.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk
User avatar
god shammgod
Knicks Forum Crazy Board Uncle
Posts: 110,246
And1: 77,757
Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Location: Longtime Blazers Fan!!!

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#298 » by god shammgod » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:58 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:So it's imagined.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Yes because we never actually hear concrete evidence of trades until years down the road..

So we're using our big brains and realizing that Vuc is around the same value as Randle and he netted the magic a top 10 pic so.....

You can conclude that Randle could have at least netted us a top 15 or more if we were willing to take on a bad contract or something
But Vuc is also a viable center. Much rarer than a PF like Randle.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk


not on defense
Image
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 12,957
And1: 4,176
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#299 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Apr 8, 2021 4:01 pm

god shammgod wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:Yes because we never actually hear concrete evidence of trades until years down the road..

So we're using our big brains and realizing that Vuc is around the same value as Randle and he netted the magic a top 10 pic so.....

You can conclude that Randle could have at least netted us a top 15 or more if we were willing to take on a bad contract or something
But Vuc is also a viable center. Much rarer than a PF like Randle.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk


not on defense
Fair but a stretch 5 is going to be more valuable than a stretchy 4.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk
User avatar
god shammgod
Knicks Forum Crazy Board Uncle
Posts: 110,246
And1: 77,757
Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Location: Longtime Blazers Fan!!!

Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#300 » by god shammgod » Thu Apr 8, 2021 4:02 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
It is interesting that we didnt seem to go after anyone that hard at the deadline.

Hope we go after Ball instead of Derozan. I know he is not as good and we still would be missing that #1 option. But he would help our PG issue and if we pay him in the $20 to $22mil range we can still be in position to add a max in '22.

Doesnt seem like there will be many stars this offseason so I would be good with adding a smaller piece (Ball, Powell, etc) and taking a smaller step.


there's enough money for both


For Derozan + Ball? We do have enough money for both but then would be capped out for the foreseeable future.

I would pass on Derozan and just add Ball. Then save the max slot in our back pocket for a legit #1 guy if possible. Our window is basically this year and next before we have to reup Randle, Mitch and then RJ


listen, i would probably pass on both. i don't think they're thinking that.

what's randle's cap hold in 2022 ? lonzo at an overpriced number plus add 2 more 1st rounders salaries this summer. there might not be as much room in 2022 than we think. i'm not sure what it looks like.
Image

Return to New York Knicks