Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

[MagicFan101]

Yeah I mean there's all kinds of noise and necessary context in small sample sizes. The Magic are 4-0 without Fournier, ya know?

Circling back to LaVine - what do you think is realistic?

Gordon for LaVine straight up?

Gordon + Aminu for LaVine and Satoransky?

Fournier + 16 for LaVine?

I mean, I would rather have Buddy Hield who is currently a backup for Sacramento but I’m also not complaining about either option at this point.

I offered to idea of AG + Evan + 16 for Lavine + Thad Young.

We get our scorer in Lavine and Chicago gets AG, a pick and saves a year of cap space in the Young for Evan swap.

I think there will be a number of teams lining up to get him (Knicks?) so we need to spend a bit.

That deal send like an extreme overpay for Orlando, and we have no use for Thad with Aminu on the roster. If we're sending both AG and Fournier, we shouldn't also send our pick and look to get some guard depth in return

And?

Gordon and Evan have not lead us anywhere.

Another mid-first rounder is unlikely to be what moves the needle far beyond the 1st round of the playoffs.

We desperately need a offensive spark plug. We are not currently a free agent destination and we are stuck in no mans land in the middle of recent drafts.

How are we going to acquire that needed player without cashing in on our good-not-great players and perhaps overpaying?

People on this board keep complaining when we don’t make a big trade but also complain when we possibly overpay. Now, I would prefer a Buddy Hield, CJ McCollum or Caris Lavert over Zach Lavine. So don’t confuse this with being attached to a specific trade scenario. But I do believe that we are going to have to pony up and over pay to get the deal we want. People are going to have to be okay with that.

[NotACat]

I mean, I would rather have Buddy Hield who is currently a backup for Sacramento but I’m also not complaining about either option at this point.

I offered to idea of AG + Evan + 16 for Lavine + Thad Young.

We get our scorer in Lavine and Chicago gets AG, a pick and saves a year of cap space in the Young for Evan swap.

I think there will be a number of teams lining up to get him (Knicks?) so we need to spend a bit.

That deal send like an extreme overpay for Orlando, and we have no use for Thad with Aminu on the roster. If we're sending both AG and Fournier, we shouldn't also send our pick and look to get some guard depth in return

And?

Gordon and Evan have not lead us anywhere.

Another mid-first rounder is unlikely to be what moves the needle far beyond the 1st round of the playoffs.

We desperately need a offensive spark plug. We are not currently a free agent destination and we are stuck in no mans land in the middle of recent drafts.

How are we going to acquire that needed player without cashing in on our good-not-great players and perhaps overpaying?

People on this board keep complaining when we don’t make a big trade but also complain when we possibly overpay. Now, I would prefer a Buddy Hield, CJ McCollum or Caris Lavert over Zach Lavine. So don’t confuse this with being attached to a specific trade scenario. But I do believe that we are going to have to pony up and over pay to get the deal we want. People are going to have to be okay with that.

And where have Buddy Heild, Caris Lavert, or Zach Lavine lead their teams?

The deal is a massive overpay, our draft pick lets us bolster our depth on a rookie scale contract

[MagicFan101]

That deal send like an extreme overpay for Orlando, and we have no use for Thad with Aminu on the roster. If we're sending both AG and Fournier, we shouldn't also send our pick and look to get some guard depth in return

And?

Gordon and Evan have not lead us anywhere.

Another mid-first rounder is unlikely to be what moves the needle far beyond the 1st round of the playoffs.

We desperately need a offensive spark plug. We are not currently a free agent destination and we are stuck in no mans land in the middle of recent drafts.

How are we going to acquire that needed player without cashing in on our good-not-great players and perhaps overpaying?

People on this board keep complaining when we don’t make a big trade but also complain when we possibly overpay. Now, I would prefer a Buddy Hield, CJ McCollum or Caris Lavert over Zach Lavine. So don’t confuse this with being attached to a specific trade scenario. But I do believe that we are going to have to pony up and over pay to get the deal we want. People are going to have to be okay with that.

And where have Buddy Heild, Caris Lavert, or Zach Lavine lead their teams?

The deal is a massive overpay, our draft pick lets us bolster our depth on a rookie scale contract

You must love early first round exits.

We have assembled a solid defensive unit. We made a push to the playoffs last year based on our defense. Anyone watching the games when Fultz is at the helm can see the difference in flow. If we can add a playmaker to the lineup who knows what that can do for our young defensive roster. How high we go depends on the growth of Fultz and Isaac IMO. But they are need a go-to scorer next to them as neither is on at this time.

Hield has played well next to Fox but they have not had a complete team.

Chicago has been a dumpster fire.

Brooklyn has flipped upside down to acquire stars but has still had some success.

[yoyojw17]

https://www.nba.com/magic/getting-james-ennis-trade-deadline-has-been-big-win-magic-20200801

Good read! And it's like I've mentioned before.... sometimes having a great offensive player doesn't always translate to maximum offensive output. The style of play makes a difference. The same happens conversely. It's not that Ennis is a great offensive talent... but the fit that he has helps facilitate a groove that increases our production

[Knightro]

And?

Gordon and Evan have not lead us anywhere.

Another mid-first rounder is unlikely to be what moves the needle far beyond the 1st round of the playoffs.

We desperately need a offensive spark plug. We are not currently a free agent destination and we are stuck in no mans land in the middle of recent drafts.

How are we going to acquire that needed player without cashing in on our good-not-great players and perhaps overpaying?

People on this board keep complaining when we don’t make a big trade but also complain when we possibly overpay. Now, I would prefer a Buddy Hield, CJ McCollum or Caris Lavert over Zach Lavine. So don’t confuse this with being attached to a specific trade scenario. But I do believe that we are going to have to pony up and over pay to get the deal we want. People are going to have to be okay with that.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you about the fact that the Magic lack an efficient scoring punch. The numbers bear it out.

They're 23rd in offensive rating. They're 27th in FG%, 25th in 3PT%, 21st in FT attempts.

The argument here is that paying a premium for flawed players is unlikely to actually make the team better overall.

To me... swapping Fournier and Gordon for LaVine (I can't speak to Hield, McCollum or LaVert because they weren't really guys we were discussing) almost certainly doesn't make the Magic better.

[Bensational]

We need a player who's poised to make a turn like Oladipo or Isaiah Thomas did. Can LaVine/Heild become that? (I feel like CJ is already there, having been on a winning team for years apart from this one).

I think LaVine would need to be surrounded by the right people with the right work ethic to turn that corner. The catch-22 on giving up Gordon and/or Fournier is that I think, as far as Cliff goes, they're two of our best in that regard - Vuc being the other one.

We've seen what LaVine does as a leader on a young team. Even the veteran additions of Thad and Satoransky weren't enough to push him over the top.

[bigdogdylan5]

Gotta assume Gordon will not be traded now

[drsd]

We need a player who's poised to make a turn like Oladipo or Isaiah Thomas did. Can LaVine/Heild become that? (I feel like CJ is already there, having been on a winning team for years apart from this one).

I think LaVine would need to be surrounded by the right people with the right work ethic to turn that corner. The catch-22 on giving up Gordon and/or Fournier is that I think, as far as Cliff goes, they're two of our best in that regard - Vuc being the other one.

We've seen what LaVine does as a leader on a young team. Even the veteran additions of Thad and Satoransky weren't enough to push him over the top.

Right now, Orlando might look internally and give Gordon those reigns.


..

[zaymon]

We need a player who's poised to make a turn like Oladipo or Isaiah Thomas did. Can LaVine/Heild become that? (I feel like CJ is already there, having been on a winning team for years apart from this one).

I think LaVine would need to be surrounded by the right people with the right work ethic to turn that corner. The catch-22 on giving up Gordon and/or Fournier is that I think, as far as Cliff goes, they're two of our best in that regard - Vuc being the other one.

We've seen what LaVine does as a leader on a young team. Even the veteran additions of Thad and Satoransky weren't enough to push him over the top.

Right now, Orlando might look internally and give Gordon those reigns.


..

Gordon is not leading us anywhere. Now i would be even more eager to trade him and draft someone like Pokusevski. We know versatile defensive forward who can protect the rim is a key to Weltmans team building strategy. Gordon is not it. I still believe Isaac could be it but we need some insurance. I would trade Gordon to make room for future project. I also think Ennis i likely to stay with us next year. Best case scenario for us i can think of is:

Fultz/ Winston(Pritchard)
Fournier/ MCW
Ennis/Okeke
Aminu/Pokusevski
Vucevic/ Bamba

We can also resign DJ depending on price and draft another Weltman style wing like Hughes, Reed, Tyler Bey, maybe Kispert.
edit. forgot about Ross

[bigdogdylan5]

I know it’s hard for people to grasp. Gordon is still 24 years old on a really awesome contract. I don’t believe he has entered his prime yet. He would be an excellent complimentary piece to a star. I would not give him up unless its someone of the caliber of Beal, Booker, or McCollum

[zaymon]

I know it’s hard for people to grasp. Gordon is still 24 years old on a really awesome contract. I don’t believe he has entered his prime yet. He would be an excellent complimentary piece to a star. I would not give him up unless its someone of the caliber of Beal, Booker, or McCollum

After this year he has 2 more years on his contract. When Isaac hopefully returns he will be expiring. Do we really believe he will resign here ? Is he good enough to lead us deep into the playoffs ? He is basically 3rd option offensively on good nights, and 4th on bad. Nights like yesterday are very rare, against subpar defenders, and he still forces many ineffective shots. Gordon is the one with the most value for other teams, we have replacements on the team already, and he have the shortest contract. I see almost no reason to not trade him.

[tiderulz]

I know it’s hard for people to grasp. Gordon is still 24 years old on a really awesome contract. I don’t believe he has entered his prime yet. He would be an excellent complimentary piece to a star. I would not give him up unless its someone of the caliber of Beal, Booker, or McCollum

I wouldnt call it an "awesome" contract. here are people making less than him that to me impact the game as much or more than AG.
Lavine
Draymond
Bojan Bagdonovic
Schroder
Oubre
Smart
TJ Warren (now thats an awesome contract at $10mil)
Dinwiddie
VanVleet (he is going to get paid)
Bogdan Bogdanovic

[dsg2021]

I hope this (JI injury) puts Chuma in the fire next year, and leads Chuma to being a beast in a few years alongside JI and Gordon.

[bigdogdylan5]

I know it’s hard for people to grasp. Gordon is still 24 years old on a really awesome contract. I don’t believe he has entered his prime yet. He would be an excellent complimentary piece to a star. I would not give him up unless its someone of the caliber of Beal, Booker, or McCollum

I wouldnt call it an "awesome" contract. here are people making less than him that to me impact the game as much or more than AG.
Lavine
Draymond
Bojan Bagdonovic
Schroder
Oubre
Smart
TJ Warren (now thats an awesome contract at $10mil)
Dinwiddie
VanVleet (he is going to get paid)
Bogdan Bogdanovic

Fine but it’s pretty damn good and only going to get better because it decreases.

[bigdogdylan5]

I hope this (JI injury) puts Chuma in the fire next year, and leads Chuma to being a beast in a few years alongside JI and Gordon.

This is the only positive that it will give Okeke the opportunity to play real minutes next year

[pepe1991]

Gordon turns 25 within a month and half, not big difference, but he has been in nba for full 6 years now.
He just isn't allstar level player.

51,7% TS on -0,2 BPM simply says all about his performance this year.
There was not a single season in this 6 years where his shots brought positive value to the offense apart from year 2.


If we talk about inner development and hope somebody can turn a table, it's Fultz recovering his jumpshot and 2020 pick being something extraordinary.

[bigdogdylan5]

Gordon turns 25 within a month and half, not big difference, but he has been in nba for full 6 years now.
He just isn't allstar level player.

51,7% TS on -0,2 BPM simply says all about his performance this year.
There was not a single season in this 6 years where his shots brought positive value to the offense apart from year 2.


If we talk about inner development and hope somebody can turn a table, it's Fultz recovering his jumpshot and 2020 pick being something extraordinary.

All I am saying is I would not trade him for a draft picks and fillers. I would want something substantial coming back. I will not lie, LaVine’s efficiency numbers are better than I would have thought but I do think you with Issac’s injury if I am not blown away by offer I role it back one more year.

[Skybox]

I hope this (JI injury) puts Chuma in the fire next year, and leads Chuma to being a beast in a few years alongside JI and Gordon.

This is the only positive that it will give Okeke the opportunity to play real minutes next year

That and I just hope they draft someone that has at least a shot at contributing in their rookie year. Since they are really looking for a skill player/scorer (I would assume) instead of a lengthy big (typically a 19 year old who probably grew 2 feet in the past 3 years and "projects" to be able to walk up and down stairs), it seems more likely. Perhaps Bamba, Isaac, Okeke, Fultz and Mr. 16 will all explode at the same time ...and all on reasonable contracts.

[pepe1991]

Gordon turns 25 within a month and half, not big difference, but he has been in nba for full 6 years now.
He just isn't allstar level player.

51,7% TS on -0,2 BPM simply says all about his performance this year.
There was not a single season in this 6 years where his shots brought positive value to the offense apart from year 2.


If we talk about inner development and hope somebody can turn a table, it's Fultz recovering his jumpshot and 2020 pick being something extraordinary.

All I am saying is I would not trade him for a draft picks and fillers. I would want something substantial coming back. I will not lie, LaVine’s efficiency numbers are better than I would have thought but I do think you with Issac’s injury if I am not blown away by offer I role it back one more year.

Well, with Isaac out for year , Aminu being 30, it's almost given we are not trading him now, if it's not for another SF-PF

[PrimeThyme]

I said this when Isaac came down with his last injury, but AG is as important as ever for this team. If we aren’t going to rebuild (which I desperately wish we would), I’d still be viewing AG as our forward of the future until we see what Chuma looks like, if Isaac can find a way to stay healthy, or If someone else becomes available on the trade market. Maybe the draft is an option as well but this is a pretty weak draft forward wise and we’ve already invested so much draft capital into forwards the last few years.

Dating back to high school, Isaac has not proven he can stay healthy. Every other year he has alternated between significant injuries.

He’s one of my favorite players that we’ve ever drafted but as a fan of this team, and not just him as a player, I have to face reality when it comes to him.

There’s a chance that he just doesn’t have the body needed for the NBA. He wouldn’t be the first player not to and he won’t be the last. I’m not ready to give up on him but I’m no longer willing to put all my eggs into his basket.