Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac

[pepe1991]

I can't speak about others, but to me Smart, Jabari , Stauskas, Gordon, Embiid, Wiggins and everybody else from 2014 draft class are pretty much finished products.
Some small improvments will probably happen for some of them ,but overall i just don't see scenario where some from that group will now make huge leap in development.
5 years passed by, guys from draft class have between 250- 380 games under their belts, between 6000-9000 min played.
10 of 14 ( 9 of 14 if you don't count Wiggins) were already traded at least once.

After allstar game in 2017, 2 years ago Gordon averaged 16 ppg, 6,6 rpg, 1,9 apg on 50%FG and 28% for 3. in 31 mpg.
During April of 2017 he averaged 19 ppg, 8 rpg and shot 41,7% for 3 ( small sample size, 6 games).
Now, 2 years later Gordon is averaging : 15,8 ppg, 7,3 rpg, 3,5 apg, 44% FG and 34% for 3.
Overall only big difference is his 3%, but even that thing goes up and down through a season a lot. Last year he started guns blazing just to shoot below 30% for 3 months.

As you can see,apart from nice boost in assists ( and increesed playing time and increesed turnovers) he is pretty much similar to his production he had 3 seasons ago. But people for years are so desparate for star that they want to see more in him than he can offer.

But Magic have star, problem is that most of you hate a guy , but that's on you.

Did you watch those games two seasons ago? How anyone can say we’re watching the same AG is pretty absurd. AG wasn’t running point and facilitating like he is now, he wasn’t driving and getting to the rim like he is now.

Come on man. You know it’s true. His game has changed significantly. Just admit it. No one is saying he’s a star and no one has even uttered that kind of sentiment, so no one is asking you to concede that point, but he has developed and become a much more complete player now. That’s a good thing!

Sorry i just don't agree. Also to me Gordon is not running the offense.

Him,Evan and Vuc all have improved assist numbers. Because they are now placed in position to have more assist numbers. Pick what you want to present. Vuc , Gordon and Evan all DEVELOPED because of spike in assist numbers.
Or Vuc ,Evan and Gordon are now in situation on the floor where they can post up more APG.
You can't cherry pick, one can't "develop" with same results as others who are just " used better" . It's hypocrisy to think and i don't think you are hypocritical.

I just tend to belive it's more of being used in that manner more than his development.
Over time guys like Batum, Josh McRoberts, Lance all had career years in APG department under Cliff ( despite him always having Kemba to be first option ). Matter of fact Josh McRoberts (4,3 apg ) is double as much as he ever had in any other year.

My personal opinion is pretty clear, i think that this Gordon is his final form, hell i think that for 2 years now. 16-18 ppg player 7-8 rpg, 2-3 asssists , 0,8 steals , 0-8 blocks, > 55% TS , BPM >1,5 , net rating >3
I have 5 years of trackrecord to belive in it.

[basketballRob]

I can't speak about others, but to me Smart, Jabari , Stauskas, Gordon, Embiid, Wiggins and everybody else from 2014 draft class are pretty much finished products.
Some small improvments will probably happen for some of them ,but overall i just don't see scenario where some from that group will now make huge leap in development.
5 years passed by, guys from draft class have between 250- 380 games under their belts, between 6000-9000 min played.
10 of 14 ( 9 of 14 if you don't count Wiggins) were already traded at least once.

After allstar game in 2017, 2 years ago Gordon averaged 16 ppg, 6,6 rpg, 1,9 apg on 50%FG and 28% for 3. in 31 mpg.
During April of 2017 he averaged 19 ppg, 8 rpg and shot 41,7% for 3 ( small sample size, 6 games).
Now, 2 years later Gordon is averaging : 15,8 ppg, 7,3 rpg, 3,5 apg, 44% FG and 34% for 3.
Overall only big difference is his 3%, but even that thing goes up and down through a season a lot. Last year he started guns blazing just to shoot below 30% for 3 months.

As you can see,apart from nice boost in assists ( and increesed playing time and increesed turnovers) he is pretty much similar to his production he had 3 seasons ago. But people for years are so desparate for star that they want to see more in him than he can offer.

But Magic have star, problem is that most of you hate a guy , but that's on you.

Did you watch those games two seasons ago? How anyone can say we’re watching the same AG is pretty absurd. AG wasn’t running point and facilitating like he is now, he wasn’t driving and getting to the rim like he is now.

Come on man. You know it’s true. His game has changed significantly. Just admit it. No one is saying he’s a star and no one has even uttered that kind of sentiment, so no one is asking you to concede that point, but he has developed and become a much more complete player now. That’s a good thing!

Sorry i just don't agree. Also to me Gordon is not running the offense.

Him,Evan and Vuc all have improved assist numbers. Because they are now placed in position to have more assist numbers. Pick what you want to present. Vuc , Gordon and Evan all DEVELOPED because of spike in assist numbers.
Or Vuc ,Evan and Gordon are now in situation on the floor where they can post up more APG.
You can't cherry pick, one can't "develop" with same results as others who are just " used better" . It's hypocrisy to think and i don't think you are hypocritical.

I just tend to belive it's more of being used in that manner more than his development.
Over time guys like Batum, Josh McRoberts, Lance all had career years in APG department under Cliff ( despite him always having Kemba to be first option ). Matter of fact Josh McRoberts (4,3 apg ) is double as much as he ever had in any other year.

My personal opinion is pretty clear, i think that this Gordon is his final form, hell i think that for 2 years now. 16-18 ppg player 7-8 rpg, 2-3 asssists , 0,8 steals , 0-8 blocks, > 55% TS , BPM >1,5 , net rating >3
I have 5 years of trackrecord to belive in it.

I still feel like Gordon can put in the work and improve his shooting percentage more. We've seen it recently with his FT shooting, he can improve.

I could see him as a 50 40 80 guy in a couple of years.



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[Knightro]

I still feel like Gordon can put in the work and improve his shooting percentage more. We've seen it recently with his FT shooting, he can improve.

I could see him as a 50 40 80 guy in a couple of years.

I like Gordon, but feels aggressively optimistic.

Five years into his career and his bests in each category are .473/.346/.730.

[basketballRob]

I still feel like Gordon can put in the work and improve his shooting percentage more. We've seen it recently with his FT shooting, he can improve.

I could see him as a 50 40 80 guy in a couple of years.

I like Gordon, but feels aggressively optimistic.

Five years into his career and his bests in each category are .473/.346/.730.

Maybe the 50.

Look at Tobias he finally broke the 40% 3 pt shooting at 25, AG is still 23.

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[BadMofoPimp]

I still feel like Gordon can put in the work and improve his shooting percentage more. We've seen it recently with his FT shooting, he can improve.

I could see him as a 50 40 80 guy in a couple of years.

I like Gordon, but feels aggressively optimistic.

Five years into his career and his bests in each category are .473/.346/.730.

Maybe the 50.

Look at Tobias he finally broke the 40% 3 pt shooting at 25, AG is still 23.

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When I see Gordon as he hasn't even nearly reached his ceiling, I keep thinking, I can't believe we got him for only $18 mil per!!!

[Knightro]

Maybe the 50.

Look at Tobias he finally broke the 40% 3 pt shooting at 25, AG is still 23.

You're not wrong, but I'd argue that Harris showed a much more natural shooting stroke at a younger age than Gordon has.

Tobias was an 80% FT shooter from the moment he stepped into the league which is has been a good indicator of overall shooting stroke and future shooting ability for a lot of players. That is also one reason why so many people are high on Isaac's future as a shooter since he's already 86% from the FT line at age 21.

Gordon has fluctuated between the high 60s and low 70s from the line.

Harris also cracked 36% from three as a 22 year old which is better than anything Gordon has done to date.

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

[NotACat]

Read on Twitter

I honestly believe not being selected is the best thing to happen to him and his career. He knew he was good enough, he's now starting to show it.

[fendilim]

Read on Twitter

I honestly believe not being selected is the best thing to happen to him and his career. He knew he was good enough, he's now starting to show it.

This is true.

But somehow I wish he had this motivation since day 1.

[BadMofoPimp]

Maybe the 50.

Look at Tobias he finally broke the 40% 3 pt shooting at 25, AG is still 23.

You're not wrong, but I'd argue that Harris showed a much more natural shooting stroke at a younger age than Gordon has.

Tobias was an 80% FT shooter from the moment he stepped into the league which is has been a good indicator of overall shooting stroke and future shooting ability for a lot of players. That is also one reason why so many people are high on Isaac's future as a shooter since he's already 86% from the FT line at age 21.

Gordon has fluctuated between the high 60s and low 70s from the line.

Harris also cracked 36% from three as a 22 year old which is better than anything Gordon has done to date.

If AG only ends up a 37-38% 3 point shooter by age 25, I will still be extremely happy.

[OrlandoNed]

Maybe the 50.

Look at Tobias he finally broke the 40% 3 pt shooting at 25, AG is still 23.

You're not wrong, but I'd argue that Harris showed a much more natural shooting stroke at a younger age than Gordon has.

Tobias was an 80% FT shooter from the moment he stepped into the league which is has been a good indicator of overall shooting stroke and future shooting ability for a lot of players. That is also one reason why so many people are high on Isaac's future as a shooter since he's already 86% from the FT line at age 21.

Gordon has fluctuated between the high 60s and low 70s from the line.

Harris also cracked 36% from three as a 22 year old which is better than anything Gordon has done to date.

If AG only ends up a 37-38% 3 point shooter by age 25, I will still be extremely happy.

Same. It's very impressive how far he's come from his rookie year as a shooter and playmaker. It's exciting how he still has more room to grow and develop.

[Capn'O]

Read on Twitter

I honestly believe not being selected is the best thing to happen to him and his career. He knew he was good enough, he's now starting to show it.

This is true.

But somehow I wish he had this motivation since day 1.

Sometimes it takes a hot minute for the mind to catch up to what the body can do in the NBA. He's not thinking anymore out there. We're seeing a similar struggle with our rookie from that class. Every once in awhile he flashes what his physical tools would allow. But some never do break through...

[J the Drafter]

Several players this year displayed a surprising drop in production. I’m guessing that the off-season training some players engaged in was too taxing and drained their stamina. For a start, look at Gordon for much of this year, though Tatum and Mitchell also provide support for my point. So I don’t know if Isaac’s improvement is due to the Rising Stars snub or because he’s got his legs under him.

[DiplomaticMagic]

Is this thread about Isaac or Gordon?

I'm happy with the development of both, people say they cant play together, to me they are a perfect combo.

[SOUL]

Last 8-10 games with Isaac. Has been our most important player.

[RickB-Orlando]

Well, this thread certainly s premature.

Let me start by saying that I think Isaac has the potential to be good enough that AG becomes trade bait for another piece of the puzzle. I don't think, in the long run, the two can coexist in the same starting lineup.

Now having said that, Isaac still has sooooo much to prove, including that he can perform consistently and can stay healthy. A short burst doesn't a career make.

[MagicMatic]

Is this thread about Isaac or Gordon?

I'm happy with the development of both, people say they cant play together, to me they are a perfect combo.

As in that they play similar positionally and have the same pros and cons to their games? Lol...

We don’t know yet if they are complimentary playing together. We just hope they can be. How many games of sample size do we really even have that they are the “perfect combo”?

One could argue the player most complimentary to AG is someone like Doncic that can create offense and stretch the floor. That isn’t Isaac by any stretch of the imagination currently.

AG is good.
Isaac is improving this year. The only people that should be “eating crow” are the ones calling him an outright bust. Way too early make such claims considering this is essentially his rookie season.

[PrimeThyme]

Is this thread about Isaac or Gordon?

I'm happy with the development of both, people say they cant play together, to me they are a perfect combo.

As in that they play similar positionally and have the same pros and cons to their games? Lol...

We don’t know yet if they are complimentary playing together. We just hope they can be. How many games of sample size do we really even have that they are the “perfect combo”?

One could argue the player most complimentary to AG is someone like Doncic that can create offense and stretch the floor. That isn’t Isaac by any stretch of the imagination currently.

AG is good.
Isaac is improving this year. The only people that should be “eating crow” are the ones calling him an outright bust. Way too early make such claims considering this is essentially his rookie season.

While that all could be true, at the same time we have 45 games now of an Isaac/AG lineup, and it has a plus 5.2 net rating for the year (+15 the last 10 games). It’s actually proving to be quite successful, and this is only in year one with a still pretty raw and developing offensive player in Isaac.

Not to mention the fact that it also has that rating with a below average starting point guard and a shooting guard outside of the last 10 games in Evan that has played very poorly offensively. As Evan has started to return to form that lineup has begun to produce real results.

I had my reservations about an Isaac/AG lineup having success (especially this early), but I have to be honest, I really am starting to think it can longterm.

Add a starting point guard (healthy Fultz?) next offseason and an offseason jump from Isaac and I 100% see a world where AG/Isaac can coexist together for a long time.

[drsd]

Last 8-10 games with Isaac. Has been our most important player.

Average of last five games:
15.8 ppg / 5.6 rpg / 2.8 bpg
100% FTs nailed
40.7% 3-ball percentage; 50.9% FG% overall

In 28.8 mpg averaged:
only 1.0 TO per game
only 1.2 PF per game


How many of those five games did the Magic win though ????

Spoiler:

...

[MagicMatic]

Is this thread about Isaac or Gordon?

I'm happy with the development of both, people say they cant play together, to me they are a perfect combo.

As in that they play similar positionally and have the same pros and cons to their games? Lol...

We don’t know yet if they are complimentary playing together. We just hope they can be. How many games of sample size do we really even have that they are the “perfect combo”?

One could argue the player most complimentary to AG is someone like Doncic that can create offense and stretch the floor. That isn’t Isaac by any stretch of the imagination currently.

AG is good.
Isaac is improving this year. The only people that should be “eating crow” are the ones calling him an outright bust. Way too early make such claims considering this is essentially his rookie season.

While that all could be true, at the same time we have 45 games now of an Isaac/AG lineup, and it has a plus 5.2 net rating for the year (+15 the last 10 games). It’s actually proving to be quite successful, and this is only in year one with a still pretty raw and developing offensive player in Isaac.

Not to mention the fact that it also has that rating with a below average starting point guard and a shooting guard outside of the last 10 games in Evan that has played very poorly offensively. As Evan has started to return to form that lineup has begun to produce real results.

I had my reservations about an Isaac/AG lineup having success (especially this early), but I have to be honest, I really am starting to think it can longterm.

Add a starting point guard (healthy Fultz?) next offseason and an offseason jump from Isaac and I 100% see a world where AG/Isaac can coexist together for a long time.

Replace Ross with Isaac and it’s the more successful lineup of the two.