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Aaron Gordon - In or Out?

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Is Aaron Gordon a Building Block for Magic

Yes, Keep him, he still has potential
15
25%
No, Trade him, we know what he is
44
75%
 
Total votes: 59

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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#141 » by Rainwater » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:22 pm

Bensational wrote:
fendilim wrote:
Bensational wrote:If they get their asking price on any player then I'm sure they're getting moved.

The big question is: 'what is the asking price?', followed by the question of how likely it is we get it.

Ie, sounds like Oubre alone wasn't enough to get AG from Phoenix. Is it Oubre + #10? Or Bridges + #10? Johnson + #10? More? How much more? Do they want a young prospect, or proven commodity? Hopefully this sort of goss leaks out over the next month in the lead up to the draft, but nobody cares about us so nobody will likely ask, lol.
not sure where you’re hearing the oubre for ag deal, but based from what i read, it was the other way around. Ag alone wasnt enough for oubre. So they countered with some other deal.
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2020/3/6/21168248/suns-made-a-late-push-for-aaron-gordon-at-trade-deadline


Ahhhh, was that it? Thanks for clarifying. Oh well, I guess WeHam didn't get their asking price?

Well, now Oubre is an expiring and we don't even get the benefit of a half season 'trial window' had we dealt for him at the deadline. So Oubre's value has to be down on our side now. If he didn't work out with our team and we had to ship him out at the following deadline, we'd be getting pennies on the dollar.

For Phoenix, I see the incentive for them to throw some extra youth assets at securing the right player to get them over the line and back into the playoffs. Is Gordon it? I don't know. But they've got expiring Oubre, Bridges, Johnson and #10, so they can afford to spend at least two of those on that new guy if they like them enough.


I don't see the Suns giving up multiple assets for AG. While the play styles of the guys you mentioned differ, these guys are pretty much are on the same level.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#142 » by Def Swami » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:01 pm

I've never been that enamored with Oubre. The Suns just went 8-0 in the Bubble without him. I think the fact that the Suns find Oubre disposable by playing 2 rookies (Bridges and Johnson) more reflects the value of Oubre. I think Gordon has more value in the league as a plus defender and playmaker in the league than Oubre.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#143 » by zaymon » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:44 pm

Def Swami wrote:I've never been that enamored with Oubre. The Suns just went 8-0 in the Bubble without him. I think the fact that the Suns find Oubre disposable by playing 2 rookies (Bridges and Johnson) more reflects the value of Oubre. I think Gordon has more value in the league as a plus defender and playmaker in the league than Oubre.

Oubre is not smart on both ends of the court. Exactly a player you dont want to play in todays nba. AG is not Einstein, but at least he is big and can make basic passes.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#144 » by Bensational » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:43 pm

Rainwater wrote:
fendilim wrote:
Bensational wrote:If they get their asking price on any player then I'm sure they're getting moved.

The big question is: 'what is the asking price?', followed by the question of how likely it is we get it.

Ie, sounds like Oubre alone wasn't enough to get AG from Phoenix. Is it Oubre + #10? Or Bridges + #10? Johnson + #10? More? How much more? Do they want a young prospect, or proven commodity? Hopefully this sort of goss leaks out over the next month in the lead up to the draft, but nobody cares about us so nobody will likely ask, lol.
not sure where you’re hearing the oubre for ag deal, but based from what i read, it was the other way around. Ag alone wasnt enough for oubre. So they countered with some other deal.
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2020/3/6/21168248/suns-made-a-late-push-for-aaron-gordon-at-trade-deadline


I was just about to say, why would the suns give up the 10th pick and Oubre for AG. Oubre for AG is fair trade in my opinion.


Oubre is an expiring. You're trading two years of AG for a one year rental of Oubre.

If I'm trading AG, my asking price is Oubre + #10/Johnson. If I don't get the asking price then I keep the better value asset in Gordon.

Or we can swap expirings with them? Fournier for Oubre straight up. Draft Nesmith/Terry/Maxey to play the 2.

Vuc/Bamba
Gordon/Aminu
Oubre/Okeke
(Nesmith/Terry/Maxey)/Ross
Fultz/?

Much better team with a more unique makeup having dual low/hi-post playmakers from the 5 and 4, a wing creator in Oubre, possibly another from our draft pick.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#145 » by Xatticus » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:39 pm

Rainwater wrote:
fendilim wrote:
Bensational wrote:If they get their asking price on any player then I'm sure they're getting moved.

The big question is: 'what is the asking price?', followed by the question of how likely it is we get it.

Ie, sounds like Oubre alone wasn't enough to get AG from Phoenix. Is it Oubre + #10? Or Bridges + #10? Johnson + #10? More? How much more? Do they want a young prospect, or proven commodity? Hopefully this sort of goss leaks out over the next month in the lead up to the draft, but nobody cares about us so nobody will likely ask, lol.
not sure where you’re hearing the oubre for ag deal, but based from what i read, it was the other way around. Ag alone wasnt enough for oubre. So they countered with some other deal.
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2020/3/6/21168248/suns-made-a-late-push-for-aaron-gordon-at-trade-deadline


I was just about to say, why would the suns give up the 10th pick and Oubre for AG. Oubre for AG is fair trade in my opinion.


Perhaps if you are a Suns fan or have an irrational hatred for Gordon. If you are a fan of the Magic, it isn't a fair trade. Gordon > Oubre. The only rationale for this deal would be that you simply want to dump Gordon and you are willing to take a lesser player to get out of the last year of his deal. Otherwise, I want more coming back our way.

Oubre's teams have always been better when he is off the floor. That's pretty damning considering the quality of teams he has played for. I do not want Oubre. Full stop. I wouldn't want to pay him his next contract. I wouldn't even want to pay him the last year of his current deal. I'd take Bridges and filler for Gordon, but the Suns won't do that. They'd like to dump Oubre for something useful because they want to win and they know that Oubre doesn't help them win games. The same is true for Saric. This is why their names keep getting floated around. I know you loathe Gordon, but he has obviously had a positive impact on our team's performance each year prior to this one. Even in this year in which Gordon really struggled, he did less damage than Fournier did in his "career year". Perhaps you should turn your ire elsewhere for a change?
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#146 » by Rainwater » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:40 am

Xatticus wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
fendilim wrote:not sure where you’re hearing the oubre for ag deal, but based from what i read, it was the other way around. Ag alone wasnt enough for oubre. So they countered with some other deal.
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2020/3/6/21168248/suns-made-a-late-push-for-aaron-gordon-at-trade-deadline


I was just about to say, why would the suns give up the 10th pick and Oubre for AG. Oubre for AG is fair trade in my opinion.


Perhaps if you are a Suns fan or have an irrational hatred for Gordon. If you are a fan of the Magic, it isn't a fair trade. Gordon > Oubre. The only rationale for this deal would be that you simply want to dump Gordon and you are willing to take a lesser player to get out of the last year of his deal. Otherwise, I want more coming back our way.

Oubre's teams have always been better when he is off the floor. That's pretty damning considering the quality of teams he has played for. I do not want Oubre. Full stop. I wouldn't want to pay him his next contract. I wouldn't even want to pay him the last year of his current deal. I'd take Bridges and filler for Gordon, but the Suns won't do that. They'd like to dump Oubre for something useful because they want to win and they know that Oubre doesn't help them win games. The same is true for Saric. This is why their names keep getting floated around. I know you loathe Gordon, but he has obviously had a positive impact on our team's performance each year prior to this one. Even in this year in which Gordon really struggled, he did less damage than Fournier did in his "career year". Perhaps you should turn your ire elsewhere for a change?


I just completely disagree with you and Ben on the value of AG. Contracts aside, I think AG and Oubre are both solid role players on the same tier but just just have different skill sets hence why I think a straight up trade is fair in my book. I just don't see why a team would give up an additional pick for AG who is not much of a difference maker and just a role player. AG has helped the Magic but that is no saying much when the team has been pretty much garbage.

I don't hate AG, I just hated how many expected an All Star when in reality he is more of a complementary piece than something to build around. And even as we speak about him now it continues, I think people still value him more than what he is actually worth. I think how Phoenix feels about AG per the link is how most teams feel about him. Just like Oubre, AG is a fine role player; I think a simple swap is fair and would be a better use of their talents.

I glanced at the numbers and AG and Oubre are really not that off including advanced. Honestly, just looking at the basic stats Oubre had the better season guy nearly avg 19 on .45 fga and .35 from three all better than AG. Oubre has improved every year while AG has pretty much stagnanted. And if you look at the Phoenix board the issue with many fans is not that they soured on him, like many have with AG, most want him but should they over pay to keep him given all their financial obligations. I just don't see why Phoenix would throw in a pick for AG when Oubre is on the same tier with similar if not more production, it makes no sense.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#147 » by pepe1991 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:45 am

I really don't see nba team that gives away lottery pick to add career 12,8 ppg, 6,4 rpg, 2,4 apg , 53% TS, 0,1 BPM player who spent 6 years and played over 400 games in nba. Upside isn't there. He is role player and distant 3rd option on very average team.
On top of that he isn't really cheap. For next year he makes over $18 000 000.

Bad teams simply do not have additional $18M in one player to throw away. Most teams in lottery are by default, young, upcomming teams with lot of garbage players on bad contracts and rookie scale contract players.
This 2020 draft class is as bad as it gets, yet if you look at landscape, there is almost no way any team is giving up top 8 pick get Gordon for few reasons:

1) not having matching returning value
2) not valuing Gordon that high
3) not needing Gordon


Let's go through some teams and return value of potential trade that includes pick:

1) T wolves. James Jones and pick. That's literally it. In any other scenario T wolves need to include 5 players just to get Gordon to match salary. It simply won't happen. Or they have to draft player, sign him and then trade him. And even if they do that ( 8,5M on 1st pick for year 1 is guaranteed money) they AGAIN have to add 2 different players ( Culver, Layman) or once again James Jones and 1st pick (signed) but in that scenario Magic have to add peace to match salary.
It's too complicated and return value is questionable. P

2) Warriors Once again same scenario, if you are not adding low cost player ( Birch) and making straight up trade for Draymoond Green, this team isn't trade partner. Gordon and Evan for Looney, pick and Wiggins is actually horrific trade for Magic. Magic get probably the worst contract in basketball, pick that nobody has any idea who to pick and journeyman. Wiggins salary kills any flexibility for years to come.

3) Hornets

It's Rozier and pick for Gordon or Zeller, pick for Gordon and Birch.
Or some Batum incldued trade that once again ships both Gordon, Evan and Birch. At least this trade ( much like James Jones one) helps with salary. But Magic lose 3 role players for pick and salary cap next year. Maybe? I mean team is instant tank-bound for next year with this.

4) Bulls.
Don't need PF. Simply not even worth exploring.

5) Cavs. Have virtually nothing worth trading. Gordon for Nance and Exum? I'll pass

From now on, Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, Avidija Hayer or Torpinn are gone and whole concept of trading for pick makes less sense.


6. Hawks. Don't need PF with Capella and Collins. Other trade ideas makes little to no sense.

7. Pistons Snell and Derrick Rose. But why trade for Gordon while having Griffin? This team has nothing else that would match salary.

8. Knicks Pretty much Randle for Gordon and picks swap. Don't see much difference drafting 8th of 15 in this draft tbh.

9.Wizards They have virtually nothing to make trade possible. Ism Smith, Hachimura and Thomas Bryant? Would Wizards even do that? Could simply pay Bertans .

10. Suns off record, offered Šarić new contract. Probably not interested in trade in this moment other than once again, doing same, already declined, Oubre swap.


So i really don't understand where this idea that Magic have to demand pick in Gordon return comes from. He is neither that valuable, nor cheap nor attractive for tanking teams. He is 25 years old role player.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#148 » by Rainwater » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:47 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I really don't see nba team that gives away lottery pick to add career 12,8 ppg, 6,4 rpg, 2,4 apg , 53% TS, 0,1 BPM player who spent 6 years and played over 400 games in nba. Upside isn't there. He is role player and distant 3rd option on very average team.


This is the part I am trying to understand, why would a team to do this? Again, AG is a good role player but why would a team throw an additional pick.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#149 » by Blue_and_Whte » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:51 pm

Bensational wrote:Clifford's comments on Gordon in the last Magic Pod Squad was nice to hear (AG talk around the 17 minute mark).



Summary:

- Post ASB and pre-stoppage, Clifford thought Gordon was playing the best basketball of his career. Rattled off his numbers, 9 rebounds, shooting 48% and 35%, but was emphatically impressed with his 6.7apg.

- Said part of it was increased transition and Gordon being a part of getting out and pushing those breaks more.

- Considers AG (and Vuc) the reason why the team was able to be good offensively against zone defenses, with their playmaking ability from inside and outside.

- Thinks AG can improve if he focuses more on using his power in post ups, instead of turnaround jumpers.

- Thinks the game will be completely different for AG if he can get up to 37-38% from 3.


Post ASB Gordon was really working at another level in terms of IQ and playing within the team. I'm much more inclined to keep him rather than trade him. Not because I think he's about to unlock untapped star level talent, but because I think he can and will be a central piece to a winning team in the near future. The Iggy/Draymond/Smart kind of guy.

Is that player worth keeping when we don't have a Curry/Klay/Tatum/Brown calibre player to go with him? Generally I'd say no, but I think we have more to gain by moving other players to see if they can return that star player instead. I would rather have Gordon + prospect than Fournier + prospect, or Bamba + prospect for example.

This just feels like the worst time to be considering trading him, if he's finally settling into the best version of his game. I'd rather keep him and see if his play does go up or not. I don't think his trade value will drop, and if his play improves it will only make it better.

I got the feeling from that interview with Clifford that the team's plan this offseason will be to add shooting. He specifically mentioned his offseason in Charlotte where they brought in Batum, Lin and Lee, and how their boost to perimeter performance (as well as further internal improvement from players) made a big difference for them. So I take that to mean we'll be scouring FA and trades for more guys like Ennis, and shooting depth.

Thanks for sharing. Great insight and great commentary on AG and Vuc's game and how good they were. It really changed my view on AG and it was interesting that Kemba going from 32 to 38% from 3pt range changed his trajectory so much. It goes to show that you dont have to be a 40% 3pt shooter to have an impact and it gives me a little hope for AG and Markelle.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#150 » by Bensational » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:47 pm

Rainwater wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I really don't see nba team that gives away lottery pick to add career 12,8 ppg, 6,4 rpg, 2,4 apg , 53% TS, 0,1 BPM player who spent 6 years and played over 400 games in nba. Upside isn't there. He is role player and distant 3rd option on very average team.


This is the part I am trying to understand, why would a team to do this? Again, AG is a good role player but why would a team throw an additional pick.


The upside is there, though. Not to be a star, but possibly a star role-player on a great team.

Bensational wrote:Post ASB he was our best player by Net RTG, he averaged 15.4ppg, 8.9rpg, 5.7apg, 1spg, 1bpg over that span. His FGAs dropped to 11.7 per game. He settled into his role as a swiss army knife guy, and he did well at it.

....

By the way, here's the list of other players who averaged at least 15ppg, 8rpg, 5apg post ASB. Even if he's the worst of that group, that's still the kind of company he keeps.


Gordon's upside lies in him developing a reliable 38%+ 3pt shot, and consistency. If he can play the kind of role he did Post ASB, with a 38% 3pt shot, then he's a very special role player. Doncic, Jokic, Adebayo, Sabonis - these are the only 4 other names that were putting up the kind of across-the-board numbers Gordon was doing post ASB. His upside lies in closing the gap between himself and the others as his game matures.

Why is pepe using "career numbers"? Fournier only averages 14ppg, 2.7rpg, 2.6apg, 1.6tov and a -1.1bpm - and he's being paid $17M a year. Why would any team want that - including us? Career numbers simply aren't ever relevant. What does his rookie and sophomore season numbers (included in his averages) matter versus what he's putting up this year? Teams aren't trading for what Gordon was as a rookie, they're trading for what he is now, and what he might become over the next 3 years. And now, his game keeps the kind of company as seen above at - 15ppg, 9rpg, 5apg, 1spg, 1bpg, and in the future he might be that consistently, and with a good 3pt shot.

If teams don't value Gordon that highly and won't pay an equivalent price, then we simply shouldn't move him unless he demands it.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#151 » by MagicMatic » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:07 pm

If I’m Orlando, I’m trading AG this season.

Why? The free agent market isn’t great this offseason and very few teams have cap space. That means certain teams will have to make trades for players that can fill the need to push themselves into true contention. (Denver, Dallas, Portland, Golden State, Minnesota)

I think this is probably the best case scenario for Orlando that is in a “down year” without Isaac. It’s essentially a developmental year with Isaacs’s injury to fall back on. They should try to find some prospects/picks and filler for AG. I don’t see Orlando making the playoffs without Isaac all season.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#152 » by Bensational » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:16 am

MagicMatic wrote:I think this is probably the best case scenario for Orlando that is in a “down year” without Isaac. It’s essentially a developmental year with Isaacs’s injury to fall back on. They should try to find some prospects/picks and filler for AG. I don’t see Orlando making the playoffs without Isaac all season.


Isaac helps to make us better, but he's not the backbone of success for the team. We were 15-19 in games he played, 19-21 in games he didn't. East teams are already slated to improve without making changes like Brooklyn and Washington, but the offseason hasn't even started yet, so there's still the chance WeHam add pieces that get or keep us in playoff contention.

Making future plans with the hopes of a strong return from Isaac is a risky move at this point. If he comes back and proves to be made of glass and gets re-injured, then there's no way we get a decent return for him and we likely lose a #6 pick asset for nothing. Trading him won't bring back a very decent return, unless there's a team equally as naive about Isaac's future health prospects that want to give up a good return for him.

Fournier and Bamba should be up for trade first to try to add a legitimate backcourt playmaker, ideally at SG, who Vuc and AG compliment. If Isaac ever proves he can return and stay healthy, deal with that problem then.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#153 » by Ducklett » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:28 am

MagicMatic wrote:If I’m Orlando, I’m trading AG this season.

Why? The free agent market isn’t great this offseason and very few teams have cap space. That means certain teams will have to make trades for players that can fill the need to push themselves into true contention. (Denver, Dallas, Portland, Golden State, Minnesota)

I think this is probably the best case scenario for Orlando that is in a “down year” without Isaac. It’s essentially a developmental year with Isaacs’s injury to fall back on. They should try to find some prospects/picks and filler for AG. I don’t see Orlando making the playoffs without Isaac all season.


At this point his value is so low that you just play him at his natural position, let him show off his rebounding, playmaking, and hopefully worked on 3pointer and trade him by the trade deadline for higher value.

For the record, I don't think his value is "so low" when 5+ teams are linked to trying to trade for him, but it seems that non-Magic posters on this board think AG is trash.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#154 » by Rainwater » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:19 am

Bensational wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I really don't see nba team that gives away lottery pick to add career 12,8 ppg, 6,4 rpg, 2,4 apg , 53% TS, 0,1 BPM player who spent 6 years and played over 400 games in nba. Upside isn't there. He is role player and distant 3rd option on very average team.


This is the part I am trying to understand, why would a team to do this? Again, AG is a good role player but why would a team throw an additional pick.


The upside is there, though. Not to be a star, but possibly a star role-player on a great team.


The upside is there even for superstar role player but will he ever get there and sustain it is the question. After 6 years you have think he is what he is.

AG has always been the guy where he goes through an excellent stretch but also goes through a horrid stretch. I believe in the 2017 season he started with All Star caliber numbers but only to finish the season horribly. The trend continued last year when he started the season poorly but post ASB was pretty good.

The inconsistency has been AG's career in a nutshell and he really hasn't shown much improvement. Does he have the potential to become something better? Sure. But do I believe after 6 years that will happen with the little improvement seen over the past few? Not really. Would I give up two assets including a first round draft pick to find out? I doubt it.

And don't get me wrong AG is a decent player, a good role player. But I just don't think the value is as high as many think it is.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#155 » by UnFadeable21 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:34 am

Gordon is a solid 3-4th option role player on a winning team. He will never be a 1 or 2.

The best thing for the Magic would be to trade him, tank this season to get the best draft pick you could for the 2021 draft class and clear their books for the 2021 big free agency class.

Let’s say Evan Formier opts in this year, that’s 17 million.
You trade Gordon for Timberwolves 1st round pick 17, expiring James Johnson 16 million, Omari Spellman 1+2 year team option 2 million, Jacob Evans 1+1 year team 2 million. Let’s say you decided to opt out of both 1st round rookies and let them walk.

Pick 15, Magic can draft Tyrese Maxey and use pick 17 for another rookie or acquire a 2021 draft pick.

After the 2020 season, the Magic would have 40 million cap space freed up for the 2021 big free agency class along with maybe two 2021 draft picks. Isaac comes back, then you now have a real plan to build a real contender in the eastern conference.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#156 » by MagicMatic » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:03 am

Bensational wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:I think this is probably the best case scenario for Orlando that is in a “down year” without Isaac. It’s essentially a developmental year with Isaacs’s injury to fall back on. They should try to find some prospects/picks and filler for AG. I don’t see Orlando making the playoffs without Isaac all season.


Isaac helps to make us better, but he's not the backbone of success for the team. We were 15-19 in games he played, 19-21 in games he didn't. East teams are already slated to improve without making changes like Brooklyn and Washington, but the offseason hasn't even started yet, so there's still the chance WeHam add pieces that get or keep us in playoff contention.

Making future plans with the hopes of a strong return from Isaac is a risky move at this point. If he comes back and proves to be made of glass and gets re-injured, then there's no way we get a decent return for him and we likely lose a #6 pick asset for nothing. Trading him won't bring back a very decent return, unless there's a team equally as naive about Isaac's future health prospects that want to give up a good return for him.

Fournier and Bamba should be up for trade first to try to add a legitimate backcourt playmaker, ideally at SG, who Vuc and AG compliment. If Isaac ever proves he can return and stay healthy, deal with that problem then.


How do you know trading AG wouldn’t bring a somewhat decent return? I’ve already explained why teams would possibly be willing to give up more this offseason.

This is the issue with Orlando and it’s fans. They are too afraid to make changes because they fear “missing the playoffs”.We aren’t “risking” anything.

I could literally care less about seeing a first round exit team AGAIN at the expense of draft position and trade value. Most outsiders, and informed fans, looking at Orlando’s situation all say the same thing - “it’s time that they start making decisions on some of these guys”. AG, Fournier, and Vuc ARE those guys whether fans want to believe it or not. This FO is not going to trade Isaac and Bamba. It’s not happening. They wouldn’t move on from their only acquisitions at the expense of AG and Fournier.

I’ll repeat, it does NOT take 7 years to build a roster. It doesn’t take a FO 4 years to choose a direction. People might have a case if this team was going into the season healthy with Okeke as an X-factor accompanied with a rookie, Fultz, Isaac, and Bamba. The rest? We already know who they are and what they do. The realistic result of this team next season is what happened this season minus DJ and Isaac. No thanks.

Isaac is out, so instead of “playoffs or bust” the FO should actually make some decisions and plan something for once.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#157 » by UnFadeable21 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:17 am

MagicMatic wrote:
Bensational wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:I think this is probably the best case scenario for Orlando that is in a “down year” without Isaac. It’s essentially a developmental year with Isaacs’s injury to fall back on. They should try to find some prospects/picks and filler for AG. I don’t see Orlando making the playoffs without Isaac all season.


Isaac helps to make us better, but he's not the backbone of success for the team. We were 15-19 in games he played, 19-21 in games he didn't. East teams are already slated to improve without making changes like Brooklyn and Washington, but the offseason hasn't even started yet, so there's still the chance WeHam add pieces that get or keep us in playoff contention.

Making future plans with the hopes of a strong return from Isaac is a risky move at this point. If he comes back and proves to be made of glass and gets re-injured, then there's no way we get a decent return for him and we likely lose a #6 pick asset for nothing. Trading him won't bring back a very decent return, unless there's a team equally as naive about Isaac's future health prospects that want to give up a good return for him.

Fournier and Bamba should be up for trade first to try to add a legitimate backcourt playmaker, ideally at SG, who Vuc and AG compliment. If Isaac ever proves he can return and stay healthy, deal with that problem then.


How do you know trading AG wouldn’t bring a somewhat decent return? I’ve already explained why teams would possibly be willing to give up more this offseason.

This is the issue with Orlando and it’s fans. They are too afraid to make changes because they fear “missing the playoffs”... We aren’t “risking” anything.

I could literally care less about seeing a first round exit team AGAIN at the expense of draft position and trade value. Most outsiders, and informed fans, looking at Orlando’s situation all say the same thing - “it’s time that they start making decisions on some of these guys”. AG, Fournier, and Vuc ARE those guys... whether fans want to believe it or not. This FO is not going to trade Isaac and Bamba. It’s not happening. They wouldn’t move on from their only acquisitions at the expense of AG and Fournier.

I’ll repeat, it does NOT take 7 years to build a roster. It doesn’t take a FO 4 years to choose a direction. People might have a case if this team was going into the season healthy with Okeke as an X-factor accompanied with a rookie, Fultz, Isaac, and Bamba. The rest? We already know who they are and what they do. The realistic result of this team next season is what happened this season minus DJ and Isaac.. no thanks.

Isaac is out, so instead of “playoffs or bust” the FO should actually make some decisions and plan something for once.


You sir are correct. A competent front office can do a compete rebuild in about two seasons.

Look at the Timberwolves for example, in one year, they got rid of Wiggins 5 year 147 million contract, Gorgui 2 year 30 million and Jeff Teague 19 million.

We went from an 8th seed team with no future to now with much higher upside. We tanked this season and now have the number 1 pick along with two young all stars.

The Orlando Magic need to tank the 2020 season, clean their books and stock pile draft picks and in 2021, they could be a real contending team with continuous upside.

Fultz
Isaac
Pick 15
Last year of Vuc

And cap space and draft picks to spend in 2021.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#158 » by UnFadeable21 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:34 am


The Athletic Mock 8.0



15. Orlando Magic
Precious Achiuwa | 6-9 forward/center | 20 years old, freshman | Memphis

Yeah, look, this is the last thing Orlando needs. Another 4/5 hybrid forward with defensive acumen. They’ve just taken Aaron Gordon, Jonathan Isaac, Chuma Okeke, Mo Bamba, Justin Jackson, and more in recent years. But you know what? At the end of the day, this front office has a type, and it’s hard to ignore that type. They love guys with elite athletic tools and positional size and length. And at 6-foot-9 with a 7-foot-2.5 wingspan and a 9-foot-plus standing reach, Achiuwa ticks every box that Orlando tends to look for from its draft picks under Jeff Weltman and John Hammond. He plays incredibly hard with an extremely high-level motor. He can guard 1 through 5 out on the court, and was an extremely underrated rim protector this season for Memphis. The big questions come on offense, as Achiuwa is not a particularly good shooter, and isn’t an instinctive passer despite often wanting to float out on the perimeter as a pseudo 3-man.

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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#159 » by KillMonger » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:05 am

UnFadeable21 wrote:
The Athletic Mock 8.0



15. Orlando Magic
Precious Achiuwa | 6-9 forward/center | 20 years old, freshman | Memphis

Yeah, look, this is the last thing Orlando needs. Another 4/5 hybrid forward with defensive acumen. They’ve just taken Aaron Gordon, Jonathan Isaac, Chuma Okeke, Mo Bamba, Justin Jackson, and more in recent years. But you know what? At the end of the day, this front office has a type, and it’s hard to ignore that type. They love guys with elite athletic tools and positional size and length. And at 6-foot-9 with a 7-foot-2.5 wingspan and a 9-foot-plus standing reach, Achiuwa ticks every box that Orlando tends to look for from its draft picks under Jeff Weltman and John Hammond. He plays incredibly hard with an extremely high-level motor. He can guard 1 through 5 out on the court, and was an extremely underrated rim protector this season for Memphis. The big questions come on offense, as Achiuwa is not a particularly good shooter, and isn’t an instinctive passer despite often wanting to float out on the perimeter as a pseudo 3-man.

This is too funny man, he even acknowledged that the Last thing we need is another forward......then proceeds to mock us another forward as if their isn't better options
Image

FREE AG...... FREE HEZONJA....... FREE AG...... FREE HEZONJA
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#160 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:15 am

UnFadeable21 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Bensational wrote:
Isaac helps to make us better, but he's not the backbone of success for the team. We were 15-19 in games he played, 19-21 in games he didn't. East teams are already slated to improve without making changes like Brooklyn and Washington, but the offseason hasn't even started yet, so there's still the chance WeHam add pieces that get or keep us in playoff contention.

Making future plans with the hopes of a strong return from Isaac is a risky move at this point. If he comes back and proves to be made of glass and gets re-injured, then there's no way we get a decent return for him and we likely lose a #6 pick asset for nothing. Trading him won't bring back a very decent return, unless there's a team equally as naive about Isaac's future health prospects that want to give up a good return for him.

Fournier and Bamba should be up for trade first to try to add a legitimate backcourt playmaker, ideally at SG, who Vuc and AG compliment. If Isaac ever proves he can return and stay healthy, deal with that problem then.


How do you know trading AG wouldn’t bring a somewhat decent return? I’ve already explained why teams would possibly be willing to give up more this offseason.

This is the issue with Orlando and it’s fans. They are too afraid to make changes because they fear “missing the playoffs”... We aren’t “risking” anything.

I could literally care less about seeing a first round exit team AGAIN at the expense of draft position and trade value. Most outsiders, and informed fans, looking at Orlando’s situation all say the same thing - “it’s time that they start making decisions on some of these guys”. AG, Fournier, and Vuc ARE those guys... whether fans want to believe it or not. This FO is not going to trade Isaac and Bamba. It’s not happening. They wouldn’t move on from their only acquisitions at the expense of AG and Fournier.

I’ll repeat, it does NOT take 7 years to build a roster. It doesn’t take a FO 4 years to choose a direction. People might have a case if this team was going into the season healthy with Okeke as an X-factor accompanied with a rookie, Fultz, Isaac, and Bamba. The rest? We already know who they are and what they do. The realistic result of this team next season is what happened this season minus DJ and Isaac.. no thanks.

Isaac is out, so instead of “playoffs or bust” the FO should actually make some decisions and plan something for once.


You sir are correct. A competent front office can do a compete rebuild in about two seasons.

Look at the Timberwolves for example, in one year, they got rid of Wiggins 5 year 147 million contract, Gorgui 2 year 30 million and Jeff Teague 19 million.

We went from an 8th seed team with no future to now with much higher upside. We tanked this season and now have the number 1 pick along with two young all stars.

The Orlando Magic need to tank the 2020 season, clean their books and stock pile draft picks and in 2021, they could be a real contending team with continuous upside.

Fultz
Isaac
Pick 15
Last year of Vuc

And cap space and draft picks to spend in 2021.


Without any desire to insult you, you guys are team that every other team should look and learn what to not do.
Regular Minessota T wolves fan who is now 17 years old lived through 1 playoff Minessota run in his entire life.

And even today, on paper your team isn't that bad ( Towns, D'angelo, Beasley) but let's not fool anybody, you were still trash. 19-45 record says it all. Among your best 3 players, not a single one can defend anybody. Especially Russell who is like wet paper on defense. And player who supposed to be defensive anchor by default, and position he plays, Towns, is as bad defensive center as you get.

Towns currently ranks 405 of 513 players in NBA.com’s defensive win shares, and has an awful 115.4 defensive rating. That means a starting lineup of five Towns would yield 115 points to any opponent. The Wolves are actually a minus 2.2 points per 100 possessions with KAT on the court, according to Basketball-Reference.


So no, you don't rebuild team in two years, your rebuild started in 2004 and is yet to show any progress other than one year rental of Jimmy Butler who couldn't stand your former 1# picks Towns and Wiggins. You are still going nowhere.

Only reason why your players look like stars is :
a) playing for nothing but personal stats ( Wiggins, Beasley, Towns)
b) pushing pace ( 4th in pace)

And there is some hope that some nba coach could turn Towns into positive contributor on playoff team ( looking at only playoff run he had, it's a streach, but maybe) however, it's almost 2021, not a single team will ever pass first round with 30% usage rate of center. It's just different era.
Just like not a single team can survive in playoffs with Russell being exposed every single possession in pick&roll, especially when Towns should be there to "save " him, yet he can't even hold his own on that side.

We went from an 8th seed team with no future to now with much higher upside. We tanked this season and now have the number 1 pick along with two young all stars.

You went from having Jimmy Butler carring your a*** to playoffs to worst record over 2 years without salray cap until 2023.

You guys ending up with 1# pick, just to relise nobody that year is even worth lottery selection is most ironic outcome of "building through draft only" strategy. At least you don't pay Wiggins any more... I guess that's something. But i won't pretend D'angelo is much better. Empty calory 17 ppg on 52% TS for career with 0,3 BPM and negative net rating for career... If he played on Pistons and Cavs and not Nets and Lakers, he would be called Ish Smith.
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