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Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks

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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#401 » by yoyojw17 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:00 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
I Rasharted wrote:I'm shocked they got as much as they did for Vuc. Now ORL has more lotto tickets to spend in hopes of landing a star. Simple as that.

"got as much"?

a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.

2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.

thats the return you are shocked about?


"Journeyman center"?

WCJ is younger than Bamba.

and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#402 » by swarlesbarkley » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:08 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:
tiderulz wrote:"got as much"?

a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.

2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.

thats the return you are shocked about?


"Journeyman center"?

WCJ is younger than Bamba.

and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm


Yeah it doesn't make sense at all. Plus, even if he replicates his Bulls stats with us - that's not journeyman anything. He'll most likely be better than Marcin Gortat (journeyman) but worse than Al Horford.
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#403 » by tiderulz » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:15 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:
"Journeyman center"?

WCJ is younger than Bamba.

yes. to me Bamba doesnt even project to be a journeyman center right now. I see WCJ as a 10-12 ppg, 7-9 rpg type of player. and thats only if he can stay healthy which he hasnt in 3 years


Ahh you're projecting that label. Gotcha. Pretty tough crowd considering WCJ putting up better numbers at 21 than Vuc at 21. Even if you compare year 3 to year 3 (WCJ 21 and Vuc 23), WCJ better shooting %, better assists, more FTs.

Vuc at 21 was a rookie, not expected to start or get much playing time. WCJ at 21 was in his 3rd year in the NBA, NBA coaching, etc, and a starter from day 1.
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#404 » by tiderulz » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:16 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:
tiderulz wrote:"got as much"?

a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.

2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.

thats the return you are shocked about?


"Journeyman center"?

WCJ is younger than Bamba.

and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm

journeyman in that, you could get those stats from quite a few average centers. I dont see all-star from WCJ.

not "journeyman" as in on a bunch of teams
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#405 » by tiderulz » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:19 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:
"Journeyman center"?

WCJ is younger than Bamba.

and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm


Yeah it doesn't make sense at all. Plus, even if he replicates his Bulls stats with us - that's not journeyman anything. He'll most likely be better than Marcin Gortat (journeyman) but worse than Al Horford.


Gortat wasnt a #7 pick.
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#406 » by swarlesbarkley » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:40 pm

tiderulz wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm


Yeah it doesn't make sense at all. Plus, even if he replicates his Bulls stats with us - that's not journeyman anything. He'll most likely be better than Marcin Gortat (journeyman) but worse than Al Horford.


Gortat wasnt a #7 pick.


Right. But he was a journeyman center. Draft position doesn't matter in this hypothetical where you're projecting WCJ as a journeyman center. You look at true journeyman centers and compare, regardless of draft position. WCJ is already putting up better than journeyman stats.

I see you didn't respond to Vuc year 3 vs WCJ year 3.
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#407 » by swarlesbarkley » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:42 pm

tiderulz wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:
"Journeyman center"?

WCJ is younger than Bamba.

and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm

journeyman in that, you could get those stats from quite a few average centers. I dont see all-star from WCJ.

not "journeyman" as in on a bunch of teams


Now he's gone from journeyman to average? I agree that WCJ will likely be average to a smidge better than average (unless we see a significant jump which is possible on a new team with new coaching) - but that's exactly what you want/need as long as your guards and wings are the focus of the offense (which hopefully they will be after the 2021 draft).
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#408 » by yoyojw17 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:05 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm

journeyman in that, you could get those stats from quite a few average centers. I dont see all-star from WCJ.

not "journeyman" as in on a bunch of teams


Now he's gone from journeyman to average? I agree that WCJ will likely be average to a smidge better than average (unless we see a significant jump which is possible on a new team with new coaching) - but that's exactly what you want/need as long as your guards and wings are the focus of the offense (which hopefully they will be after the 2021 draft).


And i believe he still has more growth to go. new situation.... new coach..... new teammates.... new structure... let's see how he responds to it all. could i see him averaging 16pt 9-10 reb and 3-4 ast with 1.5 stocks and 1 3 a game in the near future.... yep! but yes there are no guarantees. But i'm excited to see what he can be before labeling him either a journeyman or a star.

timelines are different for many... so we will see. shoot... we may have traded for 75% of a Vuc and 2 first round picks.... that would a WIN for sure.
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#409 » by Knightro » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:21 pm

Assuming he starts and plays starter minutes, there's no doubt that WCJ is going to put up counting stats. There's no one else to grab rebounds or score inside except him. But I'm not particularly concerned with that. Bamba would score points, grab rebounds and block shots at a decent clip if he played more too.

What I want to see is if the team can remain competitive on either end of the floor when WCJ is out there.

The team is going to be really bad for the foreseeable future, so it's going to be tougher to judge this when everyone's on/off and NET stats are going to be poor.

But I want to see if WCJ (or anyone else on the team for that matter) can be better than the other players at their respective positions or if the team can find some semblance of competitiveness with certain player groups.
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#410 » by Mk0 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:44 pm

Just dropping in to say thank you for Vucevic. I have been a fan of his for a while now and I am so excited to have him on the Bulls.

I hope WCJ is able to get it together in Orlando. Jim Boylen really killed his confidence with us and I hope the change of scenery can help fix that.

Sending you guys all the positive vibes. After so many shots at the lottery I really hope you guys get that franchise changing player this year. Really pulling for you.

Thanks again, best of luck, and gimme a shout on the GB if you see me in a game thread!
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#411 » by Skin » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:45 am

WCj could have a Tobias-like breakout when he gets here and I won't be shocked.
Markelle Fultz, Jalen Green, Chuma Okeke, Jonathan Isaac, Wendell Carter Jr.
Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, Corey Kispert, Mo Bamba. LET'S GO!
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#412 » by Magicfanatic82 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:09 am

From Sam Vecenie of the Athletic

37. Wendell Carter Jr. | 6-10 center, 21 years old | Chicago Bulls | Contract: 2 years, $12.4 million, then restricted free agent in 2022 | PR: 30

Another player who is exceptionally difficult to rank, and in the case of Carter, it is due to factors outside of his control. I don’t think we have gotten a chance to see the best version of Carter in the NBA yet. In all three of his NBA seasons, he’s been dealt a relatively long-term injury. He played just 44 games as a rookie and 43 as a sophomore. He’s already missed 10 games this year due to a quad injury. On top of that, Carter was also very clearly held back in terms of skill set by former coach Jim Boylen. Boylen put him in a box and didn’t allow him to do anything other than set screens, crash the offensive glass and defend. That’s never really been the best way to use Carter, as his feet are nimble and his ball skills are dextrous in space. In the early going under Billy Donovan, we’ve already seen him play more in dribble handoffs and be utilized more as a short-roll weapon. He’s up at 2.4 assists per game and looks generally very competent when away from the rim, opening space for Chicago’s offense to operate a bit. After a really tough start to the year, he’s settled in and been more efficient as a finisher than ever.

There was a strange uprising early in the season from Bulls’ fans that Carter should be moved to the bench in favor of Daniel Gafford, and it was bizarre. It wholly neglects to understand the nuances of what Carter brings on defense and only looks at blocked shots from a value perspective. And this is even while acknowledging that Carter has struggled a bit early in the season to navigate his gaps and space in the new drop coverage scheme that Donovan and the coaching staff have implemented. In any situation not involving a ball screen, Carter is a smart and willing help defender who often hops into the right position and forces opposing teams into tougher choices. At the rim, opponents have only shot 53.7 percent against him so far this season because he’s great at establishing position and using his length to contest shots. Overall, he’s just a much more complete player than Gafford.

Still, Carter ends up falling here because we’re now at the point where he’s been hurt three times in the last three years and just can’t seem to stay on the court and establish the kind of momentum that allows him to keep improving with experience and continuity. Additionally, part of the projection for Carter long-term has been the development of a jump shot and the ability to potentially space the floor. I still have some faith that Carter could get there as a shooter, but this drop is certainly an acknowledgment that he doesn’t look particularly comfortable shooting from 3 yet even with an offseason to improve upon it. If the jumper doesn’t come, Carter’s overall offensive gifts are just a bit less interesting, and he’s more of a mid- to lower-tier starting center. Valuable, but not quite as valuable as starting perimeter players. Again, it’s another example where him potentially getting more comfortable with experience could give him a bit more confidence and freedom to be willing to shoot it. But alas, we’re going to have to wait a little while to see if that comes.

Hopefully a little insight on WCJ. I forgot how bad thier coach was.
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#413 » by MagicFan101 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:43 pm

The 2021 Chicago pick has top 4 protections on it.

Do we know the protections on the 2023 pick?
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#414 » by Magic_Is_Here » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:46 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:The 2021 Chicago pick has top 4 protections on it.

Do we know the protections on the 2023 pick?
Same protection, top 4.

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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#415 » by fendilim » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:54 pm

Magicfanatic82 wrote:From Sam Vecenie of the Athletic

37. Wendell Carter Jr. | 6-10 center, 21 years old | Chicago Bulls | Contract: 2 years, $12.4 million, then restricted free agent in 2022 | PR: 30

Another player who is exceptionally difficult to rank, and in the case of Carter, it is due to factors outside of his control. I don’t think we have gotten a chance to see the best version of Carter in the NBA yet. In all three of his NBA seasons, he’s been dealt a relatively long-term injury. He played just 44 games as a rookie and 43 as a sophomore. He’s already missed 10 games this year due to a quad injury. On top of that, Carter was also very clearly held back in terms of skill set by former coach Jim Boylen. Boylen put him in a box and didn’t allow him to do anything other than set screens, crash the offensive glass and defend. That’s never really been the best way to use Carter, as his feet are nimble and his ball skills are dextrous in space. In the early going under Billy Donovan, we’ve already seen him play more in dribble handoffs and be utilized more as a short-roll weapon. He’s up at 2.4 assists per game and looks generally very competent when away from the rim, opening space for Chicago’s offense to operate a bit. After a really tough start to the year, he’s settled in and been more efficient as a finisher than ever.

There was a strange uprising early in the season from Bulls’ fans that Carter should be moved to the bench in favor of Daniel Gafford, and it was bizarre. It wholly neglects to understand the nuances of what Carter brings on defense and only looks at blocked shots from a value perspective. And this is even while acknowledging that Carter has struggled a bit early in the season to navigate his gaps and space in the new drop coverage scheme that Donovan and the coaching staff have implemented. In any situation not involving a ball screen, Carter is a smart and willing help defender who often hops into the right position and forces opposing teams into tougher choices. At the rim, opponents have only shot 53.7 percent against him so far this season because he’s great at establishing position and using his length to contest shots. Overall, he’s just a much more complete player than Gafford.

Still, Carter ends up falling here because we’re now at the point where he’s been hurt three times in the last three years and just can’t seem to stay on the court and establish the kind of momentum that allows him to keep improving with experience and continuity. Additionally, part of the projection for Carter long-term has been the development of a jump shot and the ability to potentially space the floor. I still have some faith that Carter could get there as a shooter, but this drop is certainly an acknowledgment that he doesn’t look particularly comfortable shooting from 3 yet even with an offseason to improve upon it. If the jumper doesn’t come, Carter’s overall offensive gifts are just a bit less interesting, and he’s more of a mid- to lower-tier starting center. Valuable, but not quite as valuable as starting perimeter players. Again, it’s another example where him potentially getting more comfortable with experience could give him a bit more confidence and freedom to be willing to shoot it. But alas, we’re going to have to wait a little while to see if that comes.

Hopefully a little insight on WCJ. I forgot how bad thier coach was.

Whats this? Ranked as top 37 player??
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#416 » by Magicfanatic82 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:29 pm

fendilim wrote:
Magicfanatic82 wrote:From Sam Vecenie of the Athletic

37. Wendell Carter Jr. | 6-10 center, 21 years old | Chicago Bulls | Contract: 2 years, $12.4 million, then restricted free agent in 2022 | PR: 30

Another player who is exceptionally difficult to rank, and in the case of Carter, it is due to factors outside of his control. I don’t think we have gotten a chance to see the best version of Carter in the NBA yet. In all three of his NBA seasons, he’s been dealt a relatively long-term injury. He played just 44 games as a rookie and 43 as a sophomore. He’s already missed 10 games this year due to a quad injury. On top of that, Carter was also very clearly held back in terms of skill set by former coach Jim Boylen. Boylen put him in a box and didn’t allow him to do anything other than set screens, crash the offensive glass and defend. That’s never really been the best way to use Carter, as his feet are nimble and his ball skills are dextrous in space. In the early going under Billy Donovan, we’ve already seen him play more in dribble handoffs and be utilized more as a short-roll weapon. He’s up at 2.4 assists per game and looks generally very competent when away from the rim, opening space for Chicago’s offense to operate a bit. After a really tough start to the year, he’s settled in and been more efficient as a finisher than ever.

There was a strange uprising early in the season from Bulls’ fans that Carter should be moved to the bench in favor of Daniel Gafford, and it was bizarre. It wholly neglects to understand the nuances of what Carter brings on defense and only looks at blocked shots from a value perspective. And this is even while acknowledging that Carter has struggled a bit early in the season to navigate his gaps and space in the new drop coverage scheme that Donovan and the coaching staff have implemented. In any situation not involving a ball screen, Carter is a smart and willing help defender who often hops into the right position and forces opposing teams into tougher choices. At the rim, opponents have only shot 53.7 percent against him so far this season because he’s great at establishing position and using his length to contest shots. Overall, he’s just a much more complete player than Gafford.

Still, Carter ends up falling here because we’re now at the point where he’s been hurt three times in the last three years and just can’t seem to stay on the court and establish the kind of momentum that allows him to keep improving with experience and continuity. Additionally, part of the projection for Carter long-term has been the development of a jump shot and the ability to potentially space the floor. I still have some faith that Carter could get there as a shooter, but this drop is certainly an acknowledgment that he doesn’t look particularly comfortable shooting from 3 yet even with an offseason to improve upon it. If the jumper doesn’t come, Carter’s overall offensive gifts are just a bit less interesting, and he’s more of a mid- to lower-tier starting center. Valuable, but not quite as valuable as starting perimeter players. Again, it’s another example where him potentially getting more comfortable with experience could give him a bit more confidence and freedom to be willing to shoot it. But alas, we’re going to have to wait a little while to see if that comes.

Hopefully a little insight on WCJ. I forgot how bad thier coach was.

Whats this? Ranked as top 37 player??

Each year they rank the top 50 players on rookie scale contracts. They are on the list until that contract ends.
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#417 » by drsd » Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:30 pm

The argument that Carter should play next to Bamba:

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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#418 » by basketballRob » Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:59 pm

drsd wrote:The argument that Carter should play next to Bamba:

We should at least experiment with this. I really think Carter is way better than he's shown. He's a young guy who appears to have been sulking over not being used the way he wants. Trying him at the 4 might reignite him. Also his mid range game seems to be as good as Vuc, I bet Cliff develops his 3PT shot in the same way.

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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#419 » by zaymon » Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:15 pm

I dont know if its possible to play him at the 4 this year. Not at 270 lbs. Vucevic weights 260.
Goodbye Vucevic, welcome lotttery picks !!!
Happysad.
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Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#420 » by basketballRob » Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:36 pm

zaymon wrote:I dont know if its possible to play him at the 4 this year. Not at 270 lbs. Vucevic weights 260.
Not like we have to worry about winning anyway. So might as well take a look at it.

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