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swarlesbarkley wrote:tiderulz wrote:I Rasharted wrote:I'm shocked they got as much as they did for Vuc. Now ORL has more lotto tickets to spend in hopes of landing a star. Simple as that.
"got as much"?
a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.
2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.
thats the return you are shocked about?
"Journeyman center"?
WCJ is younger than Bamba.
yoyojw17 wrote:swarlesbarkley wrote:tiderulz wrote:"got as much"?
a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.
2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.
thats the return you are shocked about?
"Journeyman center"?
WCJ is younger than Bamba.
and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm
swarlesbarkley wrote:tiderulz wrote:swarlesbarkley wrote:
"Journeyman center"?
WCJ is younger than Bamba.
yes. to me Bamba doesnt even project to be a journeyman center right now. I see WCJ as a 10-12 ppg, 7-9 rpg type of player. and thats only if he can stay healthy which he hasnt in 3 years
Ahh you're projecting that label. Gotcha. Pretty tough crowd considering WCJ putting up better numbers at 21 than Vuc at 21. Even if you compare year 3 to year 3 (WCJ 21 and Vuc 23), WCJ better shooting %, better assists, more FTs.
yoyojw17 wrote:swarlesbarkley wrote:tiderulz wrote:"got as much"?
a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.
2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.
thats the return you are shocked about?
"Journeyman center"?
WCJ is younger than Bamba.
and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm
swarlesbarkley wrote:yoyojw17 wrote:swarlesbarkley wrote:
"Journeyman center"?
WCJ is younger than Bamba.
and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm
Yeah it doesn't make sense at all. Plus, even if he replicates his Bulls stats with us - that's not journeyman anything. He'll most likely be better than Marcin Gortat (journeyman) but worse than Al Horford.
tiderulz wrote:swarlesbarkley wrote:yoyojw17 wrote:and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm
Yeah it doesn't make sense at all. Plus, even if he replicates his Bulls stats with us - that's not journeyman anything. He'll most likely be better than Marcin Gortat (journeyman) but worse than Al Horford.
Gortat wasnt a #7 pick.
tiderulz wrote:yoyojw17 wrote:swarlesbarkley wrote:
"Journeyman center"?
WCJ is younger than Bamba.
and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm
journeyman in that, you could get those stats from quite a few average centers. I dont see all-star from WCJ.
not "journeyman" as in on a bunch of teams
swarlesbarkley wrote:tiderulz wrote:yoyojw17 wrote:and.... 3 years.... 1 team...."journeyman"? hmmmm
journeyman in that, you could get those stats from quite a few average centers. I dont see all-star from WCJ.
not "journeyman" as in on a bunch of teams
Now he's gone from journeyman to average? I agree that WCJ will likely be average to a smidge better than average (unless we see a significant jump which is possible on a new team with new coaching) - but that's exactly what you want/need as long as your guards and wings are the focus of the offense (which hopefully they will be after the 2021 draft).
37. Wendell Carter Jr. | 6-10 center, 21 years old | Chicago Bulls | Contract: 2 years, $12.4 million, then restricted free agent in 2022 | PR: 30
Another player who is exceptionally difficult to rank, and in the case of Carter, it is due to factors outside of his control. I don’t think we have gotten a chance to see the best version of Carter in the NBA yet. In all three of his NBA seasons, he’s been dealt a relatively long-term injury. He played just 44 games as a rookie and 43 as a sophomore. He’s already missed 10 games this year due to a quad injury. On top of that, Carter was also very clearly held back in terms of skill set by former coach Jim Boylen. Boylen put him in a box and didn’t allow him to do anything other than set screens, crash the offensive glass and defend. That’s never really been the best way to use Carter, as his feet are nimble and his ball skills are dextrous in space. In the early going under Billy Donovan, we’ve already seen him play more in dribble handoffs and be utilized more as a short-roll weapon. He’s up at 2.4 assists per game and looks generally very competent when away from the rim, opening space for Chicago’s offense to operate a bit. After a really tough start to the year, he’s settled in and been more efficient as a finisher than ever.
There was a strange uprising early in the season from Bulls’ fans that Carter should be moved to the bench in favor of Daniel Gafford, and it was bizarre. It wholly neglects to understand the nuances of what Carter brings on defense and only looks at blocked shots from a value perspective. And this is even while acknowledging that Carter has struggled a bit early in the season to navigate his gaps and space in the new drop coverage scheme that Donovan and the coaching staff have implemented. In any situation not involving a ball screen, Carter is a smart and willing help defender who often hops into the right position and forces opposing teams into tougher choices. At the rim, opponents have only shot 53.7 percent against him so far this season because he’s great at establishing position and using his length to contest shots. Overall, he’s just a much more complete player than Gafford.
Still, Carter ends up falling here because we’re now at the point where he’s been hurt three times in the last three years and just can’t seem to stay on the court and establish the kind of momentum that allows him to keep improving with experience and continuity. Additionally, part of the projection for Carter long-term has been the development of a jump shot and the ability to potentially space the floor. I still have some faith that Carter could get there as a shooter, but this drop is certainly an acknowledgment that he doesn’t look particularly comfortable shooting from 3 yet even with an offseason to improve upon it. If the jumper doesn’t come, Carter’s overall offensive gifts are just a bit less interesting, and he’s more of a mid- to lower-tier starting center. Valuable, but not quite as valuable as starting perimeter players. Again, it’s another example where him potentially getting more comfortable with experience could give him a bit more confidence and freedom to be willing to shoot it. But alas, we’re going to have to wait a little while to see if that comes.
Same protection, top 4.MagicFan101 wrote:The 2021 Chicago pick has top 4 protections on it.
Do we know the protections on the 2023 pick?
Magicfanatic82 wrote:From Sam Vecenie of the Athletic37. Wendell Carter Jr. | 6-10 center, 21 years old | Chicago Bulls | Contract: 2 years, $12.4 million, then restricted free agent in 2022 | PR: 30
Another player who is exceptionally difficult to rank, and in the case of Carter, it is due to factors outside of his control. I don’t think we have gotten a chance to see the best version of Carter in the NBA yet. In all three of his NBA seasons, he’s been dealt a relatively long-term injury. He played just 44 games as a rookie and 43 as a sophomore. He’s already missed 10 games this year due to a quad injury. On top of that, Carter was also very clearly held back in terms of skill set by former coach Jim Boylen. Boylen put him in a box and didn’t allow him to do anything other than set screens, crash the offensive glass and defend. That’s never really been the best way to use Carter, as his feet are nimble and his ball skills are dextrous in space. In the early going under Billy Donovan, we’ve already seen him play more in dribble handoffs and be utilized more as a short-roll weapon. He’s up at 2.4 assists per game and looks generally very competent when away from the rim, opening space for Chicago’s offense to operate a bit. After a really tough start to the year, he’s settled in and been more efficient as a finisher than ever.
There was a strange uprising early in the season from Bulls’ fans that Carter should be moved to the bench in favor of Daniel Gafford, and it was bizarre. It wholly neglects to understand the nuances of what Carter brings on defense and only looks at blocked shots from a value perspective. And this is even while acknowledging that Carter has struggled a bit early in the season to navigate his gaps and space in the new drop coverage scheme that Donovan and the coaching staff have implemented. In any situation not involving a ball screen, Carter is a smart and willing help defender who often hops into the right position and forces opposing teams into tougher choices. At the rim, opponents have only shot 53.7 percent against him so far this season because he’s great at establishing position and using his length to contest shots. Overall, he’s just a much more complete player than Gafford.
Still, Carter ends up falling here because we’re now at the point where he’s been hurt three times in the last three years and just can’t seem to stay on the court and establish the kind of momentum that allows him to keep improving with experience and continuity. Additionally, part of the projection for Carter long-term has been the development of a jump shot and the ability to potentially space the floor. I still have some faith that Carter could get there as a shooter, but this drop is certainly an acknowledgment that he doesn’t look particularly comfortable shooting from 3 yet even with an offseason to improve upon it. If the jumper doesn’t come, Carter’s overall offensive gifts are just a bit less interesting, and he’s more of a mid- to lower-tier starting center. Valuable, but not quite as valuable as starting perimeter players. Again, it’s another example where him potentially getting more comfortable with experience could give him a bit more confidence and freedom to be willing to shoot it. But alas, we’re going to have to wait a little while to see if that comes.
Hopefully a little insight on WCJ. I forgot how bad thier coach was.
fendilim wrote:Magicfanatic82 wrote:From Sam Vecenie of the Athletic37. Wendell Carter Jr. | 6-10 center, 21 years old | Chicago Bulls | Contract: 2 years, $12.4 million, then restricted free agent in 2022 | PR: 30
Another player who is exceptionally difficult to rank, and in the case of Carter, it is due to factors outside of his control. I don’t think we have gotten a chance to see the best version of Carter in the NBA yet. In all three of his NBA seasons, he’s been dealt a relatively long-term injury. He played just 44 games as a rookie and 43 as a sophomore. He’s already missed 10 games this year due to a quad injury. On top of that, Carter was also very clearly held back in terms of skill set by former coach Jim Boylen. Boylen put him in a box and didn’t allow him to do anything other than set screens, crash the offensive glass and defend. That’s never really been the best way to use Carter, as his feet are nimble and his ball skills are dextrous in space. In the early going under Billy Donovan, we’ve already seen him play more in dribble handoffs and be utilized more as a short-roll weapon. He’s up at 2.4 assists per game and looks generally very competent when away from the rim, opening space for Chicago’s offense to operate a bit. After a really tough start to the year, he’s settled in and been more efficient as a finisher than ever.
There was a strange uprising early in the season from Bulls’ fans that Carter should be moved to the bench in favor of Daniel Gafford, and it was bizarre. It wholly neglects to understand the nuances of what Carter brings on defense and only looks at blocked shots from a value perspective. And this is even while acknowledging that Carter has struggled a bit early in the season to navigate his gaps and space in the new drop coverage scheme that Donovan and the coaching staff have implemented. In any situation not involving a ball screen, Carter is a smart and willing help defender who often hops into the right position and forces opposing teams into tougher choices. At the rim, opponents have only shot 53.7 percent against him so far this season because he’s great at establishing position and using his length to contest shots. Overall, he’s just a much more complete player than Gafford.
Still, Carter ends up falling here because we’re now at the point where he’s been hurt three times in the last three years and just can’t seem to stay on the court and establish the kind of momentum that allows him to keep improving with experience and continuity. Additionally, part of the projection for Carter long-term has been the development of a jump shot and the ability to potentially space the floor. I still have some faith that Carter could get there as a shooter, but this drop is certainly an acknowledgment that he doesn’t look particularly comfortable shooting from 3 yet even with an offseason to improve upon it. If the jumper doesn’t come, Carter’s overall offensive gifts are just a bit less interesting, and he’s more of a mid- to lower-tier starting center. Valuable, but not quite as valuable as starting perimeter players. Again, it’s another example where him potentially getting more comfortable with experience could give him a bit more confidence and freedom to be willing to shoot it. But alas, we’re going to have to wait a little while to see if that comes.
Hopefully a little insight on WCJ. I forgot how bad thier coach was.
Whats this? Ranked as top 37 player??
We should at least experiment with this. I really think Carter is way better than he's shown. He's a young guy who appears to have been sulking over not being used the way he wants. Trying him at the 4 might reignite him. Also his mid range game seems to be as good as Vuc, I bet Cliff develops his 3PT shot in the same way.
Not like we have to worry about winning anyway. So might as well take a look at it.zaymon wrote:I dont know if its possible to play him at the 4 this year. Not at 270 lbs. Vucevic weights 260.
