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Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#201 » by drsd » Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:22 am

tiderulz wrote:i guess i should say Center more than "big man".


Many of the contending teams this year strongly utilize their "Center": Utah, Denver, Phoenix, Dallas, Atlanta, and Philadelphia. ANn whatever you want to call Davis for LAL.

..
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#202 » by MagicMatic » Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:39 am

drsd wrote:
tiderulz wrote:just from what ive seen. a big man will get you to the playoffs, but winning is being done by wing players.


Positions as stated by basketball reference

2019–20 Los Angeles Lakers, best players PG and PF (James and Davis)
2018–19 Toronto Raptors, best players SF and PF (Leonard and Siakam)
2017-18 Golden State Warriors, best players PG and SF (Curry and Durant)
2016-17 Golden State Warriors, best players PG and PF (Curry and Durant)
2015–16 Cleveland Cavaliers, best players PG, SF, and PF (Irving, James, and Love)
2014–15 Golden State Warriors, best players PG and SG (Curry and Thompson)
2013-14 San Antonio Spurs, best players SG, SF, and C (Ginóbili, Leonard, and Duncan)
2012–13 Miami Heat, best players SG, PF, and C (Wade, James, and Bosh)
2011–12 Miami Heat, best players SG, SF, and PF (Wade, James, and Bosh)
2010–11 Dallas Mavericks, SG and PF (Terry and Nowitzki)

We can argue what positions James and Durant played, and other features above, but in 9 of 10 Champions of the last ten year, a best-player included a Big. In that sense, the 2014–15 Golden State Warriors is the exception and not the rule.

I guess my point is that it is common for Championship teams to have two excellent player with one in the backcourt and one in the forecourt, and it doesn't hurt to have a third. For me this is why rosters like Portlands are failed in design, and why I really, really like Utah and Denver as constructed.

..


The constant I see is teams needing a “wing” SG/F not a “big” PF/C.

Unless you are Tim Duncan, or Dirk in 2011, the bigs are always carried by “wings”.

Curry and Thompson are the only current modern example of winning a championship as a guard duo and they are HOF players, maybe the best shooters in history.

Davis wins nothing without GM Lebron.

Unless the idea is to get a complimentary player first and worry later about a lead scorer, which I don’t think should ever be the goal.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#203 » by drsd » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:00 am

Xatticus wrote:Kispert might be Joe Harris. He might be Luke Kennard. How valuable are these guys?


Very valuable. Either is absolutely worth a #9 selection in a draft. Both have very useful NBA skills and are the sorts of players teams need to win games. Will either be an Ace starter? No. That is not the kind of player to target in this range.

But one could get to a counter argument. What are the chances that Kispert will be as good as Harris and Kennard? I would say it is about 50/50. And that's the rub. I would thus have Kispert about 12-14 on my draft board.

But I do like Kispert much more than, for example, Keon Johnson and Ziaire Williams.
At #9 if the Magic is dead-set on drafting a wing-forward, I would hope it is Johnny Juzang over those two.

Frankly I am hoping that the Bulls pick slides up to #7 and Moody is available. Having his rights as the outcome of the Bulls trade would make me very happy.







(( I am also not a fan of Davion Mitchell. I don't get the hype. ))
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#204 » by drsd » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:08 am

MagicMatic wrote:Unless the idea is to get a complimentary player first and worry later about a lead scorer, which I don’t think should ever be the goal.



Towards next season's end, Orlando should have this depth chart:

Fultz/Anthony/Hampton
Harris/Ross/Bacon
Isaac/Carter-Williams/xxxx
Okeke/xxxx/xxxx
Carter/Bamba/xxxx

Clearly the high FRO could change the above. And the Bulls FRP should be about a good rotational player. The SRP would nicely fill out the 3rd strong SF or third-strong C clots.

So to your point, after the Magic gets their expected 2022/23 starter from a hopefully top-5 selection, the roster is basically set. If Orlando draft a guard, said player would slot as the starter in 2022.

Then it is all about wether such a player works well with Fultz, Isaac, and Okeke. Orlando is clearly not prioritising the C slot, and will ride Carter and Bamba as screen-setters and occasional long-ball shooters.

My point: this draft will determine wether Orlando will be relevant in 2022/23. It is probably the most important selection this Magic will have made since the 2014 draft (Gordon). As then, now this pick sets the tone for the type of team Orlando aspires to be.

..
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#205 » by tiderulz » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:16 pm

drsd wrote:
tiderulz wrote:i guess i should say Center more than "big man".


Many of the contending teams this year strongly utilize their "Center": Utah, Denver, Phoenix, Dallas, Atlanta, and Philadelphia. ANn whatever you want to call Davis for LAL.

..

cmon man. Atlanta isnt a contender. Dallas, KP constantly hurt and they arent really a contender either. Utah became the team they are when Mitchell exploded, Gobert is the defensive key. About the only ones that really prioritize a big man in offense is Philly and Utah.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#206 » by Magic_Stick914 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:15 pm

drsd wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Unless the idea is to get a complimentary player first and worry later about a lead scorer, which I don’t think should ever be the goal.



Towards next season's end, Orlando should have this depth chart:

Fultz/Anthony/Hampton
Harris/Ross/Bacon
Isaac/Carter-Williams/xxxx
Okeke/xxxx/xxxx
Carter/Bamba/xxxx

Clearly the high FRO could change the above. And the Bulls FRP should be about a good rotational player. The SRP would nicely fill out the 3rd strong SF or third-strong C clots.

So to your point, after the Magic gets their expected 2022/23 starter from a hopefully top-5 selection, the roster is basically set. If Orlando draft a guard, said player would slot as the starter in 2022.

Then it is all about wether such a player works well with Fultz, Isaac, and Okeke. Orlando is clearly not prioritising the C slot, and will ride Carter and Bamba as screen-setters and occasional long-ball shooters.

My point: this draft will determine wether Orlando will be relevant in 2022/23. It is probably the most important selection this Magic will have made since the 2014 draft (Gordon). As then, now this pick sets the tone for the type of team Orlando aspires to be.

..


I don’t think Ross, Harris and Bacon will be rostered next season .... most likely getting traded some how

I though Issac is our starting PF over Okeke
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#207 » by MagicMatic » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:43 pm

drsd wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Unless the idea is to get a complimentary player first and worry later about a lead scorer, which I don’t think should ever be the goal.



Towards next season's end, Orlando should have this depth chart:

Fultz/Anthony/Hampton
Harris/Ross/Bacon
Isaac/Carter-Williams/xxxx
Okeke/xxxx/xxxx
Carter/Bamba/xxxx

Clearly the high FRO could change the above. And the Bulls FRP should be about a good rotational player. The SRP would nicely fill out the 3rd strong SF or third-strong C clots.

So to your point, after the Magic gets their expected 2022/23 starter from a hopefully top-5 selection, the roster is basically set. If Orlando draft a guard, said player would slot as the starter in 2022.

Then it is all about wether such a player works well with Fultz, Isaac, and Okeke. Orlando is clearly not prioritising the C slot, and will ride Carter and Bamba as screen-setters and occasional long-ball shooters.

My point: this draft will determine wether Orlando will be relevant in 2022/23. It is probably the most important selection this Magic will have made since the 2014 draft (Gordon). As then, now this pick sets the tone for the type of team Orlando aspires to be.

..


Fultz/Anthony/MCW
Harris/Ross/Hampton
xxxx/xxxx/xxxx
Isaac/Okeke/xxxx
WCJr/Bamba/xxxx

This is a more realistic roster configuration. I’m even giving you that Ross is on the roster next year and not moved.

Orlando will obviously resign one of their stopgaps (Porter, Bacon, Ennis) if they can’t add a wing. They’ll probably do it anyway because of the depth chart. I’d have to guess Porter.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#208 » by RookieStar » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:43 pm

tiderulz wrote:
drsd wrote:
tiderulz wrote:i guess i should say Center more than "big man".


Many of the contending teams this year strongly utilize their "Center": Utah, Denver, Phoenix, Dallas, Atlanta, and Philadelphia. ANn whatever you want to call Davis for LAL.

..

cmon man. Atlanta isnt a contender. Dallas, KP constantly hurt and they arent really a contender either. Utah became the team they are when Mitchell exploded, Gobert is the defensive key. About the only ones that really prioritize a big man in offense is Philly and Utah.


???

Did you forget DEN and that MVP-caliber dude?
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#209 » by tiderulz » Sat May 1, 2021 3:01 am

RookieStar wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
drsd wrote:
Many of the contending teams this year strongly utilize their "Center": Utah, Denver, Phoenix, Dallas, Atlanta, and Philadelphia. ANn whatever you want to call Davis for LAL.

..

cmon man. Atlanta isnt a contender. Dallas, KP constantly hurt and they arent really a contender either. Utah became the team they are when Mitchell exploded, Gobert is the defensive key. About the only ones that really prioritize a big man in offense is Philly and Utah.


???

Did you forget DEN and that MVP-caliber dude?

sorry, meant Philly and Denver, not Utah.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#210 » by drsd » Sat May 1, 2021 6:58 am

tiderulz wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
tiderulz wrote:cmon man. Atlanta isnt a contender. Dallas, KP constantly hurt and they arent really a contender either. Utah became the team they are when Mitchell exploded, Gobert is the defensive key. About the only ones that really prioritize a big man in offense is Philly and Utah.


???

Did you forget DEN and that MVP-caliber dude?

sorry, meant Philly and Denver, not Utah.


My general point is that a team can be constructed around a Center in today's NBA. But said player needs to be elite.

In other words, find a start and build from there. Positionless entry. Thus if Mobley is available at #4, that is Orlando's correct choice draft wise. His upside is Anthony Davis and his floor is also pretty high (??Serge Ibaka??).

..
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#211 » by axl_c_cool » Sat May 1, 2021 8:19 am

Agreed on Mobley, if he is the pick we need to have a package in place with Bamba or WCJ and the Bulls pick to move that up.

With the odds of us being #2 and #7, let's say we pick Mobley 2nd and Houston isn't #1. That package (#7 + Bamba) should be the base of a deal. If they are #3 obviously we will have to start to start looking at adding other assets (one of the Denver picks). I'd only trade up to #5 and Kuminga and though and with that floor package above

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#212 » by GelbeWand09 » Sat May 1, 2021 9:32 am

I think a scenario that only Mobley is available & the 3 Guards are gone is pretty unlikely. Someone gonna draft him at 2 or 3. Minnesota takes him instead of Green with Edwards & D-Lo already there. Cavs take him instead of Suggs. Bulls take him to be the defensive cover for Vuc, instead of Green. Toronto needs a C badly. Sacramento takes him instead of Suggs. OKC i think goes with him too instead of Suggs. Detroit probably takes him instead of Suggs because of Hayes. Houston probably takes BPA no matter position.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#213 » by RookieStar » Sat May 1, 2021 10:04 am

GelbeWand09 wrote:I think a scenario that only Mobley is available & the 3 Guards are gone is pretty unlikely. Someone gonna draft him at 2 or 3. Minnesota takes him instead of Green with Edwards & D-Lo already there. Cavs take him instead of Suggs. Bulls take him to be the defensive cover for Vuc, instead of Green. Toronto needs a C badly. Sacramento takes him instead of Suggs. OKC i think goes with him too instead of Suggs. Detroit probably takes him instead of Suggs because of Hayes. Houston probably takes BPA no matter position.


Agree. I think its only us and our... ummmm... bias against bigs that makes us "blind" to what mobley can bring if he realizes his potential. Other teams will weigh what Mobley brings and his bust risk factor over Suggs and Green and will favor hi
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#214 » by jonbob17 » Sun May 2, 2021 1:58 am

RookieStar wrote:
GelbeWand09 wrote:I think a scenario that only Mobley is available & the 3 Guards are gone is pretty unlikely. Someone gonna draft him at 2 or 3. Minnesota takes him instead of Green with Edwards & D-Lo already there. Cavs take him instead of Suggs. Bulls take him to be the defensive cover for Vuc, instead of Green. Toronto needs a C badly. Sacramento takes him instead of Suggs. OKC i think goes with him too instead of Suggs. Detroit probably takes him instead of Suggs because of Hayes. Houston probably takes BPA no matter position.


Agree. I think its only us and our... ummmm... bias against bigs that makes us "blind" to what mobley can bring if he realizes his potential. Other teams will weigh what Mobley brings and his bust risk factor over Suggs and Green and will favor hi


Mobley has plenty of bust risk. This is a really good draft, but 2-5, and later all carry plenty of risk. They aren't all going to be good. I do agree Mobley's potential is very high, maybe best player in this draft, but I believe his floor is a lot lower than most think.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#215 » by thelead » Sun May 2, 2021 3:46 am

Start scouting Moody, Johnson, and Barnes. FML
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#216 » by basketballRob » Sun May 2, 2021 3:58 am

Maybe Barnes and Wagner as our picks. Barnes is projected to go 6 or 7, no guarantee we'll be that low either.

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#217 » by pepe1991 » Sun May 2, 2021 8:12 am

Mobley is 7'1-215 pounds player. it will take him time to put up strenght to play full time center in nba...
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#218 » by drsd » Sun May 2, 2021 8:50 am

pepe1991 wrote:Mobley is 7'1-215 pounds player. it will take him time to put up strenght to play full time center in nba...


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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#219 » by RookieStar » Sun May 2, 2021 9:02 am

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Mobley is 7'1-215 pounds player. it will take him time to put up strenght to play full time center in nba...


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Aside from Dwight where he probably went to a steroid covention for the summer and insisted on taking all the free sample, he's right.. it will take timr for Mobley to go to his desired weihht and body for the C duties
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#220 » by pepe1991 » Sun May 2, 2021 9:05 am

RookieStar wrote:
drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Mobley is 7'1-215 pounds player. it will take him time to put up strenght to play full time center in nba...


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Aside from Dwight where he probably went to a steroid covention for the summer and insisted on taking all the free sample, he's right.. it will take timr for Mobley to go to his desired weihht and body for the C duties


Howard in that picture is 17 years old. Aside of uber-elite genetics, and years of PED abuse, i highly doubt he is only person in picture that is "natty".
Giannis body transformation yells " HGH", so did Embiid.
You can find on youtube very educated bodybilders not only claiming Lebron is on steroids but also name-drop what execlly he is using for years.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.

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