The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[76ciology]

In a playoff series I'm comfortable putting Ben on the best player. I'm not comfortable with Randle doing the same

Ok. Then the player calls for a screen. Then just pulls up for a jumper. Duncan Robinson scored 26pts getting chased by Ben. How? He got open looks with screen plays.

Defense is a concept sold to mediocre teams to make them believe they have a chance. When the best offensive players are on contenders like Brooklyn. Im not saying defense is not important, it’s just offense is lopsidedly more important. This league has turned this game into a contest of offensive firepower.

With Randle, I may have a chance to improve my points per possession off a Milton, Maxey or Seth PnR with Randle.

With Ben, I took a step back on my halfcourt offense while defensively teams can find a way to make him ineffective.

Eh that's not really true. You can absolutely be a championship team with a defensive identity. I agree that most contending teams have an offensive-minded structure, but if a very strong defense gives us an overall better net rating, I'd say that's more effective than a better offense, worse defense, and a lower overall net rating.

I'd rather be a #1 defensive team, with a #8 offense than a #4 offense and a #10 defense, which is probably what we'd get by subbing out Ben with Randle.

But I'd agree with you in that I'd probably prefer a #1 offense and a #8 defense to the inverse. Great offense almost always beats out great defense in today's game

Yup.

Anyway, i hope people dont get me wrong im not pushing for a Ben for Randle trade ok?

[youngcrev]

I just don't get why you guys keep lowering your expectations and standards for Ben ? Does that benefit the whole team since he can't reach his potential for whatever reasons then you decide you are gonna be satisfied with him to be a defensive specialist who barely has one offensive skillset just to be an acceptable offensive player ?

Is that what you guys hoped for when he got picked four years ago ? Is that what you expected after his amazing rookie season back to 2017 ?

Or maybe it's just too hard to call it the end of our hope...

I'm pretty sure everyone finds him frustrating, but this seems like you're kinda ignoring that he's currently a good player in spite of it. I also think it would be foolish to ignore that there's a clear path for improvement, even if it seems less likely he achieves it the longer we wait. Honestly though, I don't really know what people were expecting coming into this year in terms of him getting better during a shortened off-season in which he was hurt.

If you can get a star for him, have at it. But it seems like people are at a stage now where they want to trade him just to get rid of him, which is ridiculous.

[youngcrev]

We’ll see. It’s gonna be one of the discussions that would be fun to look back in the future.

Personally, I think Randle was nowhere near Ben from 2014-2018.

He improved from 2018 to 2020, to near Ben’s level, or atleast was moving upwards to Ben’s level.

But he has definitely surpassed Ben this season. Where Randle’s improvement and Ben’s decline both played its part.

What’s uncertain is if Ben and Randle can both continue playing at this level.

In a playoff series I'm comfortable putting Ben on the best player. I'm not comfortable with Randle doing the same

Ok. Then the player calls for a screen. Then just pulls up for a jumper. Duncan Robinson scored 26pts getting chased by Ben. How? He got open looks with screen plays.

Defense is a concept sold to mediocre teams to make them believe they have a chance. When the best offensive players are on contenders like Brooklyn. Im not saying defense is not important, it’s just offense is lopsidedly more important. This league has turned this game into a contest of offensive firepower.

With Randle, I may have a chance to improve my points per possession off a Milton, Maxey or Seth PnR with Randle.

With Ben, I took a step back on my halfcourt offense while defensively teams can find a way to make him ineffective.

How many teams have won a championship that didn't have a top-10 defense?

[76ciology]

In a playoff series I'm comfortable putting Ben on the best player. I'm not comfortable with Randle doing the same

Ok. Then the player calls for a screen. Then just pulls up for a jumper. Duncan Robinson scored 26pts getting chased by Ben. How? He got open looks with screen plays.

Defense is a concept sold to mediocre teams to make them believe they have a chance. When the best offensive players are on contenders like Brooklyn. Im not saying defense is not important, it’s just offense is lopsidedly more important. This league has turned this game into a contest of offensive firepower.

With Randle, I may have a chance to improve my points per possession off a Milton, Maxey or Seth PnR with Randle.

With Ben, I took a step back on my halfcourt offense while defensively teams can find a way to make him ineffective.

How many teams have won a championship that didn't have a top-10 defense?

Again..

Im not saying defense is not important.

Im just saying offense is way more important. And you should also be able to play good defense.

And btw, I do think we can still be a great defensive team without Ben by replacing him with a 3&D guy like Otto Porter or Jerami Grant.

You can’t win the championship with great defense and middle of the pack offense like what we are right now.

[6ers83]

Pretty good read and IMHO spot on:

https://www.phillyvoice.com/ben-simmons-sixers-76ers-slow-start-statistics-analysis-problems-defense-injury-news/

[76ciology]

3 teams that have assets and would overpay for Ben:

1.) Nuggets
- their defense is suffering. Specially now that they have to play alot of MPJ. Ben is also a super great fit for Jokic, Murray and even MPJ.
- I’d imagine they’d be willing to pay the Nets pick package for Ben.
- Murray-Barton-MPJ-Ben-Jokic

2.) Wolves
- KAT and Ben is just perfect. Wolves can trade the farm and build around Edwards, Ben and KAT.
- Edwards-Ben-KAT trio

3.) Kings
- Kings has a problematic defense with really good offense. Ben also compliments Fox and Hield. Rumor even has it that we involved the Kings that has a scenario that has Ben shipped there for Bagley and a handful of picks
- Hield-Fox-Ben trio.

[Stanford]

3 teams that have assets and would overpay for Ben:

I like your thought process here and I hope Morey is pursuing it. But what are you suggesting comes back in terms of players?

[youngcrev]

3 teams that have assets and would overpay for Ben:

1.) Nuggets
- their defense is suffering. Specially now that they have to play alot of MPJ. Ben is also a super great fit for Jokic, Murray and even MPJ.
- I’d imagine they’d be willing to pay the Nets pick package for Ben.
- Murray-Barton-MPJ-Ben-Jokic

2.) Wolves
- KAT and Ben is just perfect. Wolves can trade the farm and build around Edwards, Ben and KAT.
- Edwards-Ben-KAT trio

3.) Kings
- Kings has a problematic defense with really good offense. Ben also compliments Fox and Hield. Rumor even has it that we involved the Kings that has a scenario that has Ben shipped there for Bagley and a handful of picks
- Hield-Fox-Ben trio.

What are those teams trading while keeping what you list that you consider an overpay...?

[76ciology]

3 teams that have assets and would overpay for Ben:

1.) Nuggets
- their defense is suffering. Specially now that they have to play alot of MPJ. Ben is also a super great fit for Jokic, Murray and even MPJ.
- I’d imagine they’d be willing to pay the Nets pick package for Ben.
- Murray-Barton-MPJ-Ben-Jokic

2.) Wolves
- KAT and Ben is just perfect. Wolves can trade the farm and build around Edwards, Ben and KAT.
- Edwards-Ben-KAT trio

3.) Kings
- Kings has a problematic defense with really good offense. Ben also compliments Fox and Hield. Rumor even has it that we involved the Kings that has a scenario that has Ben shipped there for Bagley and a handful of picks
- Hield-Fox-Ben trio.

What are those teams trading while keeping what you list that you consider an overpay...?

3 teams that have assets and would overpay for Ben:

I like your thought process here and I hope Morey is pursuing it. But what are you suggesting comes back in terms of players?

Nuggets
4 picks and 4 swaps, allows me to ship to a third team.
Cheaper Harden package.

Wolves
DLO and 2024 1st round pick (they cant trade their 2022 1sts because of GSW deal) and a pick swap <= I’d ship this to Wiz for Beal

Kings
Bagley and 2 picks and a swap <= then you can ship Bagley, TWO Sixers 1st and a Sixers pick swap to the Bulls for Lavine. So basically you gain Lavine and 3 pick swaps from the Kings lol

[Stanford]

Boy, that's a risky play.

[kriss73]

There is really no sense to trade Ben for picks and gambles in this hystorical moment of our franchise.

[Negrodamus]

CJ McCollum, '24 and '26 firsts for Simmons.

I think the Blazers are about to hit a bad stretch with McCollum and Nurkic out and will want to change things up since it's obviously not working with the redundancy of McCollum and Lillard (albeit different level of scorer).

While Ben publicly has been gracious about trade rumors, I wouldn't be surprised if he's pissed and wants out.

Also, I doubt Morey wants to see Ben multiple times a year and playoffs if he sent him somewhere in the East.

[Stanford]

CJ McCollum, '24 and '26 firsts for Simmons.

I think the Blazers are about to hit a bad stretch with McCollum and Nurkic out and will want to change things up since it's obviously not working with the redundancy of McCollum and Lillard (albeit different level of scorer).

While Ben publicly has been gracious about trade rumors, I wouldn't be surprised if he's pissed and wants out.

Also, I doubt Morey wants to see Ben multiple times a year and playoffs if he sent him somewhere in the East.

Shake starts?

Shake Milton
CJ McCollum
Danny Green
Tobias
Embiid

We'd need to flip picks and Maxey for a significant Green upgrade and then hope that there's enough on the bench

[stormi]

CJ Mac is a pure bucket getter. Absolutely elite. I would love to get him.

Shooting Arkansas Isaiah Joe volume from 3 this season

5:1 turnover ratio too

[stormi]

CJ McCollum, '24 and '26 firsts for Simmons.

I think the Blazers are about to hit a bad stretch with McCollum and Nurkic out and will want to change things up since it's obviously not working with the redundancy of McCollum and Lillard (albeit different level of scorer).

While Ben publicly has been gracious about trade rumors, I wouldn't be surprised if he's pissed and wants out.

Also, I doubt Morey wants to see Ben multiple times a year and playoffs if he sent him somewhere in the East.

Shake starts?

Shake Milton
CJ McCollum
Danny Green
Tobias
Embiid

We'd need to flip picks and Maxey for a significant Green upgrade and then hope that there's enough on the bench

Couldn't we just throw a pick collage + Green + Kork or something for said upgrade. Holiday and Harden essentially went for picks only. The last time a prospect like Maxey and picks were involved in a trade was when SGA got moved for PG (+Kawhi).

What kind of upgrade did you have in mind for that package.

[Stanford]

What kind of upgrade did you have in mind for that package.

I just think that we'd need a star wing player to be competitive, and that would require Maxey and picks, I think.

Don't know who that player would be. I'm not good at that stuff.

[Negrodamus]

CJ McCollum, '24 and '26 firsts for Simmons.

I think the Blazers are about to hit a bad stretch with McCollum and Nurkic out and will want to change things up since it's obviously not working with the redundancy of McCollum and Lillard (albeit different level of scorer).

While Ben publicly has been gracious about trade rumors, I wouldn't be surprised if he's pissed and wants out.

Also, I doubt Morey wants to see Ben multiple times a year and playoffs if he sent him somewhere in the East.

Shake starts?

Shake Milton
CJ McCollum
Danny Green
Tobias
Embiid

We'd need to flip picks and Maxey for a significant Green upgrade and then hope that there's enough on the bench

I would, but Doc's son in law is on our team so it might be CJ/Curry backcourt unfortunately.

[phillynative]

Does furkan korkmaz have any trade value?

[Black Mage]

I wonder if Ben's recent play is indicative of Sam Cassell trying to break him down and reteach him the game/position. He definitely looks and plays just like Tobias did after Brett messed his head up.

Ben's hesitation looks like it's because he's not playing to his natural instincts (the few he did have) and is trying to figure out what he's supposed to do.

Gonna give Simmons the benefit of the doubt that part of the problem is him consciously trying to change under Sam's tutelage in response to the wake-up call of almost being traded.

I still would trade him for the right deal. I hate to say it, kinda regretting us not jumping on the rumored draft trade offers that might have brought Lamelo to the team.

[phillynative]

Does furkan korkmaz have any trade value?

Wrong thread lol