Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho

[Negrodamus]

kobblehead remains the oddest poster ever on this website

This discounts the personality of many, many people. I fear summoning a few by mentioning their names (if they haven’t been banned yet).

One comes to mind and he was very, erhm… krazy.

[rzzzzz]

Yeah, it's not just a talent question - Boston has Rob Williams and old Horford, they'd be trading for a log jam.

Depending how much Stevens is still involved with the players, I’d could see him attracted by the straight trade for Simmons. Brad was the first guy who really understood how to use Turner. I’m glad ET got his payday, but I missed his leading the 2nd unit heroics of the Celtics. Simmons has way more natural talent, and part of me wants to see someone get him to buy into being much better deployed. Of course if he ever did buy in someplace, I’d rather it be in the other conference. Maybe Pop. (For Murray?)

[Madd Squabbles]

Yeah, it's not just a talent question - Boston has Rob Williams and old Horford, they'd be trading for a log jam.

Depending how much Stevens is still involved with the players, I’d could see him attracted by the straight trade for Simmons. Brad was the first guy who really understood how to use Turner. I’m glad ET got his payday, but I missed his leading the 2nd unit heroics of the Celtics. Simmons has way more natural talent, and part of me wants to see someone get him to buy into being much better deployed. Of course if he ever did buy in someplace, I’d rather it be in the other conference. Maybe Pop. (For Murray?)

Can the Spurs just absorb his salary or would they need to match it in a trade?

[Mik317]

kobblehead remains the oddest poster ever on this website

This discounts the personality of many, many people. I fear summoning a few by mentioning their names (if they haven’t been banned yet).

One comes to mind and he was very, erhm… krazy.

others were very...Dedicated.

[76thBearCub]

Any who, back on topic, I still don't get why they couldn't let him have a run as a heel. Would've been good.

[Arsenal]

That's because the senile old man in charge forgot how to make stars. So he shoved Cena down our collective throats for over a decade.

Oh you're one of those

If by "those" you mean people who grew up with Rasslin when it was awesome, and are now disgusted by how turrible it is, you are correct!

[Arsenal]

He was great, but I wouldn’t even compare him to Albert Vanilla as a ring worker.

"I knew Albert Vanilla. I worked the ring with Albert Vanilla. You, sir, are no Albert Vanilla."

Props for skillfully mixing pro rasslin w/politics while having a bit of fun at Kobble's expense. Well done sir!

[Arsenal]

Any who, back on topic, I still don't get why they couldn't let him have a run as a heel. Would've been good.

Could have been huge. Cena as a megaheel "Corporate Champion" made all the sense in the world.

[KramerDSP]

Wrestling and basketball! Two of my favorite things. This season has gone to he** so might as well go on a rant here.

I was one of the ECW Arena diehards back when the E stood for Eastern. I was there in person when Chris Benoit broke Sabu's neck, and when the Franchise threw down the NWA belt and declared himself the new ECW World Heavyweight Champion. I am a small part of wrestling lore, as the chair I threw during the ECW Chair Throwing Incident is the chair that hit Funk in the head (he sold it like a champ!).

The three guys I have liked the most during my wrestling fandom fit a specific arch-type. Bret. Benoit. Bryan. When Bret got screwed, I knew WCW would not be able to use him correctly. Benoit quickly became my favorite after I saw him in a 20-minute time limit with Scorpio in one of the Superbrawls. I was convinced that he was the absolute best wrestler in the ring in the world. And then he snapped and killed his wife and kid (I still haven't fully wrapped my head around that). I've not been able to finish a match of his since then without my mind going elsewhere. Then Bryan came around. Bryan's rise to the top was meteoric, and some of the audience reactions he garnered (Seattle! Providence, Rhode Island!) are up there with the best audience reactions ever. He was so beloved that the company had to change the main event of Wrestlemania 30 in order to send the fans home happy. And then he was forced to retire, and I started wondering if all the guys I root for were destined to have bad endings.

Ultimately, Bryan came back. And because he came back, my dream match (Brock vs. Bryan) ended up happening. Bryan will always be my all-time favorite at this point. His current AEW run is reminding me a lot of a heel version of Bret's 1992 run where he was taking on challengers week in and week out, elevating them all.

GOAT? In wrestling? That's hard to say. If we go by Bret's 10-10-10 (looks, skills, promos) scale, it's probably Flair. Hogan may be the GOAT on paper, but he's a horrible person and sucked in the ring unless he was wrestling in Japan. Austin did unbelievable things, but his run at the top was way too short. Rock was amazing, but parlayed his successes into becoming an A-List movie star. In that sense, Rock is the GOAT in the way El Santo is. Cena was a PG version of Hogan, but a much, much better person, and positively inspired millions of people. There's an obvious reason he couldn't turn heel (but I loved when he literally turned his heel during one of those promos at the end and said "heel turn"). Brock was too much of a part-timer. Reigns? He's got a lot of runway left before it's all said and done, and he's got a shot, but he doesn't have a lot of other guys nipping at his heels in the way the other GOATS did. I'm going to have to say it's Flair (the looks, the skills, the promos, the cultural impact). With that said, I think Magnum had a chance to be the GOAT if not for the car accident, and that Young Scott Steiner is the greatest prospect ever.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

kobblehead remains the oddest poster ever on this website

This discounts the personality of many, many people. I fear summoning a few by mentioning their names (if they haven’t been banned yet).

One comes to mind and he was very, erhm… krazy.

others were very...Dedicated.

Pryor posters have been quite colorful over the years I have been on here.

[Kobblehead]

Reigns? He's got a lot of runway left before it's all said and done, and he's got a shot, but he doesn't have a lot of other guys nipping at his heels in the way the other GOATS did.

That's an interesting point that Reigns is essentially unopposed in his era. I do think it makes it easier for him to stand out. I think Reigns needs to prove he can work as a babyface as a singles competitor in the main event scene before he truly enters the conversation.

[KramerDSP]

Reigns? He's got a lot of runway left before it's all said and done, and he's got a shot, but he doesn't have a lot of other guys nipping at his heels in the way the other GOATS did.

That's an interesting point that Reigns is essentially unopposed in his era. I do think it makes it easier for him to stand out. I think Reigns needs to prove he can work as a babyface as a singles competitor in the main event scene before he truly enters the conversation.

I think the guys who are next up for possible GOAT status are Breakker (hate the name - why didn’t they name him a Steiner?!?) and
Steveson. Seems like slim pickings.

[Stanford]

GOAT? In wrestling? That's hard to say. If we go by Bret's 10-10-10 (looks, skills, promos) scale

The interesting conversation is always the criteria by which you judge them. Bret's scale doesn't make any sense to me. Look doesn't mean anything if you're not over. Ring skills don't mean anything if you're not having great matches. Promos are a fine criteria to judge a wrestler on, but the other two emphasize the wrong things. They're a means to an end. Plenty of guys have gotten over with a mediocre look. Plenty of guys have great matches without being particularly skilled in the ring. Would you rather have a guy who's over with a poor look, or a guy who looks great but can't get over? Bret's scale would prefer the latter.

The big divide with wrestling fans is usually on the art of wrestling versus the business of wrestling. If you can't get two people to agree on how important each is when making these lists, they're never going to agree on a GOAT. The fact is, there is no obvious GOAT. Flair is probably the closest. Decent draw as a top guy, huge catalogue of great matches, the best promo guy for like 25 straight years, and over as hell wherever he went. But there were bigger draws and guys with better match resumes. When you run down the list, every guy has deficiencies.

my dream match (Brock vs. Bryan) ended up happening

This is one of my favorite matches of all time.

I think Reigns needs to prove he can work as a babyface as a singles competitor in the main event scene before he truly enters the conversation.

Meh, Reigns was about as successful as a main event babyface as Flair was. Flair had that one match against Vader in whatever year that was, but his main event babyface runs were pretty tepid, despite being absolutely beloved in territory. The key to being in the conversation in WWE is credibility. WWE's main event heels don't typically have credibility, especially when they're champions, so it's valid to want to see him do it on top as a face. But he's kind of changed the way heels are booked in the main event. He's as credible as any face on the roster at the moment.

[Tomjas]

I went to a big WWE event in Melbourne a few years ago

HHH, Undertaker, Bryant, Reigns, etc

Atmosphere was really flat as there was no commentary during matches and just the sound of hitting the mat etc

Is that usually the case?

Think it was 2018 & Taker was basically a cripple as his knees were completely shot while HHH was not much better

[Stanford]

Is that usually the case?

You thought there would be commentary broadcast to the live audience?

[Kobblehead]

I think the guys who are next up for possible GOAT status are Breakker (hate the name - why didn’t they name him a Steiner?!?) and
Steveson. Seems like slim pickings.

Bron Breakker definitely seems like the next top guy in the making. He's athletic, built like a tank, and is pretty decent in the ring already. He brings a lot of energy on the mic even if he isn't as precise delivering his promos yet.

Steveson is obviously going to be a phenom in the ring. Elite level athlete and technical skills. With him, it's all going to come down to his charisma/promo.

I hope WWE can get MJF away from AEW. He's one of the best on the mic in the business and only 24 years old. He's be the perfect guy to bring up working angles with the next crop of young superstars.

[Tomjas]

Is that usually the case?

You thought there would be commentary broadcast to the live audience?

Didn’t know what to expect

They had the usual mike stuff from the ring but it was very different not having commentary

[Stanford]

MJF stinks

[Kobblehead]

MJF stinks

I look at him and I see dollar signs. He's going to sell the crap out of every feud he's in, on the mic. He'll routinely steal the show with his segments on Smackdown/Raw. His PPV angles are going to be red hot heading into them.

[Stanford]

Objectively, maybe. Subjectively, I think he's a boring promo. And that's the thing he's good at.