Welcome James Harden!

[blargh]

So, is this really the player you want to build around?

I don’t think the Sixers have the mentality of building right now: that was in the Process years. I think they’re just asking the question of what can we do to optimize this team’s chance of winning a championship over the next 3 years. They have definitely improved those odds compared to pre-trade. It’s hard to imagine a reasonable alternative trade at this deadline that would have given them a better chance. If Harden, as you’re predicting, really does lay an egg in the playoffs and proves not worthy, we still have the option of not resigning him (and honestly, we will not have lost much in terms of assets for the gamble).

So I don’t think the Sixers have made a big risky investment in “building” around Harden. They saw a near term opportunity, with a lot of parity around the league, and decided to take a calculated bet.

[Zumramania]

Oh c'mon, that GS team had FOUR stars (Curry, Thompson, Green and Durant, just to remind you), a team which many think was the best in history of basketball versus only Harden. There is no single star player ever who was going to win those games alone after CP3 got injured.

I think that Morey will remove the book worm and fill this roster with more useful side pieces this offseason and then you will see this team at full capacity. We would have to be lucky to do something this season with our lack of rebounding, defending and shooting and with Doc at the helm who doesn't want to experiment with lineups.

[76ciology]

The most optimized roster James Harden ever played on:

Notable stats/attributes [per 100 possessions]

Chris Paul: Ballhandler, spacer, guard defender, playmaker - 10.1 3PA, 12.2 assists, 2.6% steal rate

James Harden

Trevor Ariza: 3&D wing, athlete, bomber - 10.0 3PA, 6'8, 36.8% from 3, 2.1% steal

PJ Tucker: 3&D wing, corner specialist - 6.7 3PA, 9.9 rebounds, 37.1% from 3

Clint Capela: Hard screen setter, roller, rim protector, ferocious rebounder

Bench: Eric Gordon (Secondary creator, relentless bomber - 13.9 3PA), Ryan Anderson (relentless bomber - 9.7 3PA), Gerald Green (6'6 athletic wing, bomber from 3 - 15.8 3PA)

The plan was pretty simple, everyone on the court was making the life on James Harden easier, whether it was through defensive intensity, floor spacing, or rim running / athleticism. And besides Ryan Anderson - who lost his playoff minutes to Gerald Green anyways - there were no exploitable defenders on the court.

We're built completely the opposite. Niang and Green are our only two bombers and both have either waning or no athleticism.

Maxey shoots 5.2 3PA/100, Harris 5.0 3PA, Thybulle 4.6 3PA

Not only are we not getting adequate floor spacing from our starting unit, but we're somehow not getting the size, length or defensive switchability...

We're also lacking another true playmaker.

It isn't realistic to expect this roster to be transformed into the 2018 Houston Rockets. We have Joel Embiid and James Harden has to adjust his playstyle to playing alongside a dominant big.

I do think Maxey can be that Eric Gordon type of secondary scorer, but we need another playmaker in that S5 (Mike Conley). The entirety of the halfcourt offense and facilitation cannot run through the the hands of a 33 year old James Harden. It's overly predictable.

And then we simply need more shooting and size. That's non negotiable.

Niang, Maxey, Furkan, Shake, Harris etc are all exploitable defenders and it's dangerous because realistically we're going to have multiple of these guys on the court at all times.

Thybulle is an exploitable offensive player that's going to have to be schemed into effectiveness.

Very interested to see what happens this season, and where we do go from here.

That team had the GS Warriors down 3-2 in the conference finals and lost the following two games to lose the series. In those two games Harden was 10 for 24 and 12 for 29 shooting.

He's now four years older, 32 as opposed to the 28 he was then, and of course 33, 34, and 35 are far different pro basketball years for a player than 29, 30, and 31.

So, is this really the player you want to build around?

When he was in his prime and surrounded by an optimal roster, on a team that went 65-17 and led the league in net rating at +8.7, he laid an egg in the conference finals and his team lost the series. He isn't going to do any better or get any closer than that at age 33, 34, or 35.

We just spent years in a misguided attempt to build around Ben Simmons. Building around James Harden at age 32 (and 33 and 34...) would be a similarly misguided attempt.

This is a Sixers fanbase that has been starving for someone to accompany Joel Embiid and get this team over the proverbial hump after watching a disappointing and demoralizing Ben Simmons fail to do so for several years. Just because someone has finally shown up and provided some hope in that regard doesn't mean it's the right person for the job.

This team still needs a centerpiece in my opinion. That player can be neither Embiid nor Harden.

Explore-exploit strategy.

When do you exploit?
When do you explore?

It depends on how much time you have.

We’ve been exploring since 2013.
We got Embiid and continued exploring.
We went after LeBron, and he used us as leverage.
We passed up on Kawhi, because we believed in Ben.
Got Jimmy and continued exploring.
We lose Jimmy, because we believed in Ben.
We hired Morey to get a chance on Harden.

We now have an MVP candidate player at his prime and one of the best player in the league right now on his last legs on Harden, there’s no way you can say those two are not a duo you can’t compete with (build around).

If we can go back and do it all over again since 2013. In 100 tries, how often can you get this version of Embiid and a player like Harden?

When you reach a certain threshold in probability and time remaining, you have to push all your chips. And that is right now for us. We just need to know when to cut our losses when the time is right then we do it all over again, much better because we have learned from our mistakes.

[76ciology]

Its just that you can’t expect that you have a prime Harden.

We now dont have that GOAT level scorer.

This guy is still a superstar but he’s now more of a playmaker. A real one, not like a fake one that is labeled to be a playmaker because he passes too much.

Just as Embiid, you need to just surround our roster with guys who can hide Embiid and Harden’s flaw. To start, I think both Harden and Embiid are GOAT skilled player but are average at best when it comes to athletic ability, what we need are length and athletes.

Having guys like Tobi or Niang at the 4 and Green or Thybulle at the 3, just exposes our guys flaws.

Hypothetically.. If you have a Giannis at the 4. Embiid’s decline in his verticality on defense&rebounding when Giannis can cover our defense/rebounding problem while Harden decline in his verticality in finishing around the rim wont be exposed when Harden can just lob it up.

[Ferry Avenue]

The most optimized roster James Harden ever played on:

Notable stats/attributes [per 100 possessions]

Chris Paul: Ballhandler, spacer, guard defender, playmaker - 10.1 3PA, 12.2 assists, 2.6% steal rate

James Harden

Trevor Ariza: 3&D wing, athlete, bomber - 10.0 3PA, 6'8, 36.8% from 3, 2.1% steal

PJ Tucker: 3&D wing, corner specialist - 6.7 3PA, 9.9 rebounds, 37.1% from 3

Clint Capela: Hard screen setter, roller, rim protector, ferocious rebounder

Bench: Eric Gordon (Secondary creator, relentless bomber - 13.9 3PA), Ryan Anderson (relentless bomber - 9.7 3PA), Gerald Green (6'6 athletic wing, bomber from 3 - 15.8 3PA)

The plan was pretty simple, everyone on the court was making the life on James Harden easier, whether it was through defensive intensity, floor spacing, or rim running / athleticism. And besides Ryan Anderson - who lost his playoff minutes to Gerald Green anyways - there were no exploitable defenders on the court.

We're built completely the opposite. Niang and Green are our only two bombers and both have either waning or no athleticism.

Maxey shoots 5.2 3PA/100, Harris 5.0 3PA, Thybulle 4.6 3PA

Not only are we not getting adequate floor spacing from our starting unit, but we're somehow not getting the size, length or defensive switchability...

We're also lacking another true playmaker.

It isn't realistic to expect this roster to be transformed into the 2018 Houston Rockets. We have Joel Embiid and James Harden has to adjust his playstyle to playing alongside a dominant big.

I do think Maxey can be that Eric Gordon type of secondary scorer, but we need another playmaker in that S5 (Mike Conley). The entirety of the halfcourt offense and facilitation cannot run through the the hands of a 33 year old James Harden. It's overly predictable.

And then we simply need more shooting and size. That's non negotiable.

Niang, Maxey, Furkan, Shake, Harris etc are all exploitable defenders and it's dangerous because realistically we're going to have multiple of these guys on the court at all times.

Thybulle is an exploitable offensive player that's going to have to be schemed into effectiveness.

Very interested to see what happens this season, and where we do go from here.

That team had the GS Warriors down 3-2 in the conference finals and lost the following two games to lose the series. In those two games Harden was 10 for 24 and 12 for 29 shooting.

He's now four years older, 32 as opposed to the 28 he was then, and of course 33, 34, and 35 are far different pro basketball years for a player than 29, 30, and 31.

So, is this really the player you want to build around?

When he was in his prime and surrounded by an optimal roster, on a team that went 65-17 and led the league in net rating at +8.7, he laid an egg in the conference finals and his team lost the series. He isn't going to do any better or get any closer than that at age 33, 34, or 35.

We just spent years in a misguided attempt to build around Ben Simmons. Building around James Harden at age 32 (and 33 and 34...) would be a similarly misguided attempt.

This is a Sixers fanbase that has been starving for someone to accompany Joel Embiid and get this team over the proverbial hump after watching a disappointing and demoralizing Ben Simmons fail to do so for several years. Just because someone has finally shown up and provided some hope in that regard doesn't mean it's the right person for the job.

This team still needs a centerpiece in my opinion. That player can be neither Embiid nor Harden.

Explore-exploit strategy.

When do you exploit?
When do you explore?

It depends on how much time you have.

We’ve been exploring since 2013.
We got Embiid and continued exploring.
We went after LeBron, and he used us as leverage.
We passed up on Kawhi, because we believed in Ben.
Got Jimmy and continued exploring.
We lose Jimmy, because we believed in Ben.
We hired Morey to get a chance on Harden.

We now have an MVP candidate player at his prime and one of the best player in the league right now on his last legs on Harden, there’s no way you can say those two are not a duo you can’t compete with (build around).

If we can go back and do it all over again since 2013. In 100 tries, how often can you get this version of Embiid and a player like Harden?

When you reach a certain threshold in probability and time remaining, you have to push all your chips. And that is right now for us. We just need to know when to cut our losses when the time is right then we do it all over again, much better because we have learned from our mistakes.

Who is providing the reliable scoring in the clutch in game seven?

If you can't answer that question with a player on your roster, you can't win a championship.

Do folks here really believe Embiid or Harden can be that player? Both players looked pretty well stymied in a playoff environment the other night.

[DHM]

The most optimized roster James Harden ever played on:

Notable stats/attributes [per 100 possessions]

Chris Paul: Ballhandler, spacer, guard defender, playmaker - 10.1 3PA, 12.2 assists, 2.6% steal rate

James Harden

Trevor Ariza: 3&D wing, athlete, bomber - 10.0 3PA, 6'8, 36.8% from 3, 2.1% steal

PJ Tucker: 3&D wing, corner specialist - 6.7 3PA, 9.9 rebounds, 37.1% from 3

Clint Capela: Hard screen setter, roller, rim protector, ferocious rebounder

Bench: Eric Gordon (Secondary creator, relentless bomber - 13.9 3PA), Ryan Anderson (relentless bomber - 9.7 3PA), Gerald Green (6'6 athletic wing, bomber from 3 - 15.8 3PA)

The plan was pretty simple, everyone on the court was making the life on James Harden easier, whether it was through defensive intensity, floor spacing, or rim running / athleticism. And besides Ryan Anderson - who lost his playoff minutes to Gerald Green anyways - there were no exploitable defenders on the court.

We're built completely the opposite. Niang and Green are our only two bombers and both have either waning or no athleticism.

Maxey shoots 5.2 3PA/100, Harris 5.0 3PA, Thybulle 4.6 3PA

Not only are we not getting adequate floor spacing from our starting unit, but we're somehow not getting the size, length or defensive switchability...

We're also lacking another true playmaker.

It isn't realistic to expect this roster to be transformed into the 2018 Houston Rockets. We have Joel Embiid and James Harden has to adjust his playstyle to playing alongside a dominant big.

I do think Maxey can be that Eric Gordon type of secondary scorer, but we need another playmaker in that S5 (Mike Conley). The entirety of the halfcourt offense and facilitation cannot run through the the hands of a 33 year old James Harden. It's overly predictable.

And then we simply need more shooting and size. That's non negotiable.

Niang, Maxey, Furkan, Shake, Harris etc are all exploitable defenders and it's dangerous because realistically we're going to have multiple of these guys on the court at all times.

Thybulle is an exploitable offensive player that's going to have to be schemed into effectiveness.

Very interested to see what happens this season, and where we do go from here.

That team had the GS Warriors down 3-2 in the conference finals and lost the following two games to lose the series. In those two games Harden was 10 for 24 and 12 for 29 shooting.

He's now four years older, 32 as opposed to the 28 he was then, and of course 33, 34, and 35 are far different pro basketball years for a player than 29, 30, and 31.

So, is this really the player you want to build around?

When he was in his prime and surrounded by an optimal roster, on a team that went 65-17 and led the league in net rating at +8.7, he laid an egg in the conference finals and his team lost the series. He isn't going to do any better or get any closer than that at age 33, 34, or 35.

We just spent years in a misguided attempt to build around Ben Simmons. Building around James Harden at age 32 (and 33 and 34...) would be a similarly misguided attempt.

This is a Sixers fanbase that has been starving for someone to accompany Joel Embiid and get this team over the proverbial hump after watching a disappointing and demoralizing Ben Simmons fail to do so for several years. Just because someone has finally shown up and provided some hope in that regard doesn't mean it's the right person for the job.

This team still needs a centerpiece in my opinion. That player can be neither Embiid nor Harden.

. Joel might be the MVP and he’s not centerpiece? Lol

You might wanna up your trolling game that was really a poor attempt. Lmao

[76ciology]

That team had the GS Warriors down 3-2 in the conference finals and lost the following two games to lose the series. In those two games Harden was 10 for 24 and 12 for 29 shooting.

He's now four years older, 32 as opposed to the 28 he was then, and of course 33, 34, and 35 are far different pro basketball years for a player than 29, 30, and 31.

So, is this really the player you want to build around?

When he was in his prime and surrounded by an optimal roster, on a team that went 65-17 and led the league in net rating at +8.7, he laid an egg in the conference finals and his team lost the series. He isn't going to do any better or get any closer than that at age 33, 34, or 35.

We just spent years in a misguided attempt to build around Ben Simmons. Building around James Harden at age 32 (and 33 and 34...) would be a similarly misguided attempt.

This is a Sixers fanbase that has been starving for someone to accompany Joel Embiid and get this team over the proverbial hump after watching a disappointing and demoralizing Ben Simmons fail to do so for several years. Just because someone has finally shown up and provided some hope in that regard doesn't mean it's the right person for the job.

This team still needs a centerpiece in my opinion. That player can be neither Embiid nor Harden.

Explore-exploit strategy.

When do you exploit?
When do you explore?

It depends on how much time you have.

We’ve been exploring since 2013.
We got Embiid and continued exploring.
We went after LeBron, and he used us as leverage.
We passed up on Kawhi, because we believed in Ben.
Got Jimmy and continued exploring.
We lose Jimmy, because we believed in Ben.
We hired Morey to get a chance on Harden.

We now have an MVP candidate player at his prime and one of the best player in the league right now on his last legs on Harden, there’s no way you can say those two are not a duo you can’t compete with (build around).

If we can go back and do it all over again since 2013. In 100 tries, how often can you get this version of Embiid and a player like Harden?

When you reach a certain threshold in probability and time remaining, you have to push all your chips. And that is right now for us. We just need to know when to cut our losses when the time is right then we do it all over again, much better because we have learned from our mistakes.

Who is providing the reliable scoring in the clutch in game seven?

If you can't answer that question with a player on your roster, you can't win a championship.

Do folks here really believe Embiid or Harden can be that player? Both players looked pretty well stymied in a playoff environment the other night.

Isolation
7.6 possessions (1sts) 1.06ppp James Harden
4.7 possessions (12th) .94ppp embiid
*5.1 possesssions .91ppp Tatum

Post ups
7.9 possessions (1st) 1.10 ppp Embiid

Clutch
5ppg 50FG% (1st) Embiid

Run a two man game between Embiid and Harden, you’d either get one of them an open look or a mismatch.

These two are two of the best scorers in league history.

Sure I want KD and Embiid. But this is as good as it gets for almost anyone in the league.

We have the ingredients for our championship cake. We just need to know how to bake it

[Kobblehead]

Show me a team that's won a championship recently with its centerpiece at center.

After burning the midnight oil and scouring the NBA archives for several hours, I think I found one.

[mjkvol]

Oh c'mon, that GS team had FOUR stars (Curry, Thompson, Green and Durant, just to remind you), a team which many think was the best in history of basketball versus only Harden. There is no single star player ever who was going to win those games alone after CP3 got injured.

I think that Morey will remove the book worm and fill this roster with more useful side pieces this offseason and then you will see this team at full capacity. We would have to be lucky to do something this season with our lack of rebounding, defending and shooting and with Doc at the helm who doesn't want to experiment with lineups.

This nails it in a nutshell. Those expecting a title run this year are either being unrealistic or, like some here, are looking to validate their idiotic, pseudo-expert proclamations of doom.

[mjkvol]

We now have an MVP candidate player at his prime and one of the best player in the league right now on his last legs on Harden, there’s no way you can say those two are not a duo you can’t compete with (build around).

If we can go back and do it all over again since 2013. In 100 tries, how often can you get this version of Embiid and a player like Harden?

When you reach a certain threshold in probability and time remaining, you have to push all your chips. And that is right now for us. We just need to know when to cut our losses when the time is right then we do it all over again, much better because we have learned from our mistakes.

Exactly. Morey took over a borderline hopeless scenario and a waste of a HOF player's prime and created an opportunity to build a title contender with one bold move. To criticize it is beyond asinine, as the alternatives were window dressing that would have done nothing to bring us closer to being a serious contender. This move gives us the chance, with more moves in the off season, to at least make a serious run in the next couple of years.

[Ferry Avenue]

Show me a team that's won a championship recently with its centerpiece at center.

After burning the midnight oil and scouring the NBA archives for several hours, I think I found one.

Brook Lopez started 70 of the 70 games he played for that team, at 7 foot 282 pounds.

What position was he playing? Guard?

[DHM]

Show me a team that's won a championship recently with its centerpiece at center.

After burning the midnight oil and scouring the NBA archives for several hours, I think I found one.

Brook Lopez started 70 of the 70 games he played for that team, at 7 foot 282 pounds.

You got boxed troll

What position was he playing? Guard?

[Stanford]

Yeah, kobble's being a little disingenuous here.

And I'm pretty sure he believes Middleton was the centerpiece of that team.

[Ferry Avenue]

Explore-exploit strategy.

When do you exploit?
When do you explore?

It depends on how much time you have.

We’ve been exploring since 2013.
We got Embiid and continued exploring.
We went after LeBron, and he used us as leverage.
We passed up on Kawhi, because we believed in Ben.
Got Jimmy and continued exploring.
We lose Jimmy, because we believed in Ben.
We hired Morey to get a chance on Harden.

We now have an MVP candidate player at his prime and one of the best player in the league right now on his last legs on Harden, there’s no way you can say those two are not a duo you can’t compete with (build around).

If we can go back and do it all over again since 2013. In 100 tries, how often can you get this version of Embiid and a player like Harden?

When you reach a certain threshold in probability and time remaining, you have to push all your chips. And that is right now for us. We just need to know when to cut our losses when the time is right then we do it all over again, much better because we have learned from our mistakes.

Who is providing the reliable scoring in the clutch in game seven?

If you can't answer that question with a player on your roster, you can't win a championship.

Do folks here really believe Embiid or Harden can be that player? Both players looked pretty well stymied in a playoff environment the other night.

Isolation
7.6 possessions (1sts) 1.06ppp James Harden
4.7 possessions (12th) .94ppp embiid
*5.1 possesssions .91ppp Tatum

Post ups
7.9 possessions (1st) 1.10 ppp Embiid

Clutch
5ppg 50FG% (1st) Embiid

Run a two man game between Embiid and Harden, you’d either get one of them an open look or a mismatch.

These two are two of the best scorers in league history.

Sure I want KD and Embiid. But this is as good as it gets for almost anyone in the league.

We have the ingredients for our championship cake. We just need to know how to bake it

That's good information, thank you. Certainly stands in contrast to some other posts.

[76ciology]

Who is providing the reliable scoring in the clutch in game seven?

If you can't answer that question with a player on your roster, you can't win a championship.

Do folks here really believe Embiid or Harden can be that player? Both players looked pretty well stymied in a playoff environment the other night.

Isolation
7.6 possessions (1sts) 1.06ppp James Harden
4.7 possessions (12th) .94ppp embiid
*5.1 possesssions .91ppp Tatum

Post ups
7.9 possessions (1st) 1.10 ppp Embiid

Clutch
5ppg 50FG% (1st) Embiid

Run a two man game between Embiid and Harden, you’d either get one of them an open look or a mismatch.

These two are two of the best scorers in league history.

Sure I want KD and Embiid. But this is as good as it gets for almost anyone in the league.

We have the ingredients for our championship cake. We just need to know how to bake it

That's good information, thank you. Certainly stands in contrast to some other posts.

Thanks. I also get y0ur point. But i just think we need to give them some more time to gel.

[76ciology]

Not knowing whether Giannis is a C or not is why Bucks roster structure is a genius.

Giannis stays at your opponents PF. He is lethal on transition, so your more mobile PF stays on him. On offense, there’s lots of possessions when your PF is on him, where he can bully his way with 4 shooters around him.

If you put your C on him, he’s just going to outrun him on transition.

If not, Jrue can run a two man game to create mismatch for him.

Bucks set-up Giannis perfectly. A roster structure that creates a lot of mismatch and hides the flaws of Giannis.

[DHM]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1636495489973511/permalink/3211909795765398/

[Ksny13]

I mean, they were a Chris Paul hamstring injury away from beating the dynastic Warriors in a series. Just because the Rockets lost their second best player and weren’t able to make the finals doesn’t make Harden suddenly some dog. If Chris Paul stays healthy and they finish off the Warriors, somehow that changes the innate mental makeup of James Harden? That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Winning and losing in sports only ever can be analyzed in context. If altering one small moment makes someone completely change the narrative of an entire player’s career that should be a sign that the narrative was bogus to begin with and formed on shaky ground.

You're illustrating the point exactly. Harden needs a dog like Paul around him to win at that level. The presence of Paul doesn't change the mental/emotional makeup of Harden, but it certainly changes the mental/emotional makeup of the team. When Paul goes out injured and you're left with Harden you lose the heart and soul of the team.

Certainly you don't think Chris Paul is likely to come out in that environment last night and lay an egg.

Harden like everyone else needs great players to win. And when you lose great players, it’s harder to win. They lost because they didn’t have the talent without their second best player to close the Warriors out, it didn’t have much to do with a mentality.

Yeah people tend to leave this part out when talking about chocking. CP3 was just as important as Beard that year. He was amazing. As soon as he went down all of us Houston fans knew it was over. The simple fact that were even competitive against that juggernaut without CP3 was amazing.

[FireMorey]

At the level of conference championships and NBA titles, everybody has great players. It's the team mentality/culture that wins at that point, and that's driven by the mental/emotional makeup of the players. What this team showed last night is that it doesn't stand a chance in that environment.

No it isn't, it's talent that wins, it's talent that always wins. Mentality is not tangible, you have no idea what's going through someone's mental makeup when you watch them play a basketball game.

Bucks have 1 superstar and an all star and that's it. Talent wise they weren't the best team but they got it done.

Giannis was the best player in the Suns series. The team with the best player won the series. And Holiday and Middleton and not too shabby either.

[Prokorov]

Thanks, I was going to actually make the point in my earlier response and forgot that's it's quite convenient that Durant's "dog mentality" coincided with joining one of the great teams in league history, one that had already won a championship without him. We haven't seen much evidence of it before or since.

How would you characterize his time with OKC or his series vs the bucks?

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Durant, only adding some context to the idea of trashing Harden for not having this alleged "dog mentality".

Regarding the Bucks series, Durant choked by wearing shoes that were too large.

my thing is you said his "dog mentality" was only in GS. but he got the thunder to the finals and played great vs lebron. he has an argument for Finals MVP but that never goes to the losing team