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Elton Brand's Resume

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BullyKing
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Re: Elton Brand's Resume 

Post#41 » by BullyKing » Sun Sep 6, 2020 12:44 am

Sixerscan wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:Well similar to my above point they knew about what the luxury tax was going to be, if this was an issue just don't trade for Harris and let Chandler and so on expire or trade them for someone more cost controlled like Warren or something. Or don't trade two cost controlled role players for Butler.

The overwhelming majority of the league doesn't pay the tax/does whatever they can to avoid paying the tax. Like I know you love crying about them being cheap but they have the 6th highest payroll this year. It's just a reality of this being a business and not a fantasy league. But if you're a team that doesn't want to pay the tax, then maybe don't make moves burning cost controlled assets that are obviously going to take you into the tax, and then get cold feet. That was the weirdest part of all this, the seeming indecision and getting blindsided by things they should have already known and been prepared for.

It's very unusual to trade real assets for a max free agent to be mid season, and the Sixers did it twice in one season. It's extremely difficult to completely change everything to accommodate a guy like that in-season. And it seems even more weird to do if you're not 100% into signing the guy long term (when you'll have an off season and a camp to get them more into the team). It does all speak to it all being driven by Harris who isn't a basketball person and maybe doesn't get something like that.


We had arguably the most talented team in the league last year and all the key players PUBLICLY said they wanted to run it back. Apparently the coach in the end agreed to run it back.

Then a headscratching series of moves ensue resulting in: 1) a much worse team, and 2) a much lower payroll.

6th highest payroll means JACK if you're trying to be an actual contender. The teams that win are usually 1st, 2nd, 3rd in payroll. 6th means NOTHING.

So no I'm not just "crying" that they are cheap. THEY ARE CHEAP. There is almost a decade worth of evidence to prove it.

Well 6 of the 8 teams left have a lower salary than the Sixers. Heat are paying less than $2 million more, Clippers a few hundred thousand.

But regardless my point is, if you want to be “cheap” that’s one thing. But don’t give away all of your controllable assets for guys you don’t have the budget to keep around long term. A “cheap” team shouldn’t be putting itself in a position where they have to spend a record amount of contracts in a single offseason.


I think you are both right. Any team operating at or near the tax needs to protect their cheap assets because they represent pretty much the only way to meaningfully improve the team going forward.

I do think one the appeals of not running it back was to delay the tax for a year so I think there is an element of cheapness at play here as well.

But really, the larger problem is that this organization has been completely schizophrenic since Hinkie left and constantly overreacting to every issue. They struck out in free agency the first time and so became convinced they had to spend assets trading for people (Butler, Harris). Then our lack of an even remotely playable backup center barely costs us the Toronto series so we spend $100 million on Al Horford.

You can point some actions and label them evidence of being cheap. You can point to others as evidence of a win now mentality where money doesn't appear to be an issue. Rather than deciding whether they are all-in or cheap, isn't it easier and likely more accurate to just say they are incompetent?
NYSixersFan wrote:
the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
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Re: Elton Brand's Resume 

Post#42 » by Sixerscan » Sun Sep 6, 2020 1:51 am

BullyKing wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
We had arguably the most talented team in the league last year and all the key players PUBLICLY said they wanted to run it back. Apparently the coach in the end agreed to run it back.

Then a headscratching series of moves ensue resulting in: 1) a much worse team, and 2) a much lower payroll.

6th highest payroll means JACK if you're trying to be an actual contender. The teams that win are usually 1st, 2nd, 3rd in payroll. 6th means NOTHING.

So no I'm not just "crying" that they are cheap. THEY ARE CHEAP. There is almost a decade worth of evidence to prove it.

Well 6 of the 8 teams left have a lower salary than the Sixers. Heat are paying less than $2 million more, Clippers a few hundred thousand.

But regardless my point is, if you want to be “cheap” that’s one thing. But don’t give away all of your controllable assets for guys you don’t have the budget to keep around long term. A “cheap” team shouldn’t be putting itself in a position where they have to spend a record amount of contracts in a single offseason.


I think you are both right. Any team operating at or near the tax needs to protect their cheap assets because they represent pretty much the only way to meaningfully improve the team going forward.

I do think one the appeals of not running it back was to delay the tax for a year so I think there is an element of cheapness at play here as well.

But really, the larger problem is that this organization has been completely schizophrenic since Hinkie left and constantly overreacting to every issue. They struck out in free agency the first time and so became convinced they had to spend assets trading for people (Butler, Harris). Then our lack of an even remotely playable backup center barely costs us the Toronto series so we spend $100 million on Al Horford.

You can point some actions and label them evidence of being cheap. You can point to others as evidence of a win now mentality where money doesn't appear to be an issue. Rather than deciding whether they are all-in or cheap, isn't it easier and likely more accurate to just say they are incompetent?

Right yeah that's what I was trying to say. Not paying the tax in a vacuum is annoying if somewhat understandable due to reality, but not paying the tax after your team building strategy the prior year seemed to assume you were paying the tax is even more annoying. They are the ones that put themselves in that situation. Like there's a reason why teams normally don't trade for multiple guys that you expect to get max offers months later.

They just don't seem to have a consistent vision, which is ironic given the guy that started all of this off had like the most singular vision in league history.
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Re: Elton Brand's Resume 

Post#43 » by sixers hoops » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:04 pm

Arsenal wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
76ciology wrote:
He didnt take any credit when he traded role players for Butler and role players and picks that would be drafted for players we’ll never care about for Tobias Harris. Then found a steal with Thybulle. That also for me is dumb because people may think it is not himself who was responsible for those moves since he is just a GM and not the president of basketball operations.


I thought the Butler trade was good, but the Harris trade sucked. I wouldn’t want credit for that. I thought the Thybulle pick was good, but he telegraphed it so bad that he had to give away a good pick to move up to get him. Horrible rookie mistake.


I basically agree, except that the Butler trade was not good when you consider it ended up being a rental. If we actually kept the star player who we traded for then yes the trade was fine. Since we traded for the guy without the conviction to keep him, it was a bad move.

That move was the impetus for the entire chain of RUSH THE PROCESS stupid move after stupid move.


Agreed in hindsight. I was saying I thought it was a good trade at the time. In retrospect, it was bad. We could have Cov in his declining value contract instead of Horford.
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Re: Elton Brand's Resume 

Post#44 » by Fencer reregistered » Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:31 am

Ninjaed on my Steve Kerr comments.

But as a Celtics fan, I recall with horror Paul "Thanksdad" Gaston.
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Re: Elton Brand's Resume 

Post#45 » by ankle420breaker » Tue Sep 8, 2020 10:55 am

Arsenal wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
Stanford wrote:
I think the Butler trade was good. But what was the plan? Butler has been a malcontent everywhere and has issues with coaches and aloof teammates. The personality and on-court fit issues should have been predicted. Was the plan to go all-in on one season?


Right, if what happened here was that Jimmy is just kind of crazy and decided after the season he was going to Miami no matter what that's one thing, nothing you can do about that. But you can absolutely predict that Jimmy was going to butt heads with people and especially someone like Simmons and that he was going to have issues with not being on the ball. It's nothing short of an organizational failure to not plan for that and only make the trade if you're comfortable with dealing with all that, especially for a team whose GM is a former player.

You can make an argument that the performance in the post season last year was like a 90% outcome when you made the trade. I'm just sort of confused as to what they thought was going to happen when they made the trade in the first place? It seems like everything happened just as expected (or better!) and the Sixers just got cold feet.


One major factor in our catastrophic 2019 summer that people continue to overlook is MONEY.

Running it back would have cost $10M+ more in salary, likely pushing us into the luxury tax.

Doing the moves they did allowed Josh Harris to save ~ $15M cash this past season by avoiding the tax. Plus BIG MONEY savings in future years with lower payroll, starting the clock on the repeater tax one year later, etc.

The most likely explanation for why Jimmy Butler is not here is because Josh Harris CHEAPED OUT.
Obvious factor. What infuriates me is how Brand was publicly boasting that he had authorization from Josh Harris to run it back last year. Nobody from the organization should have even put that out there without absolute certainty that they'd be able to deliver.

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Re: Elton Brand's Resume 

Post#46 » by BB_Fan » Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:52 pm

EB has been a failure in the Front Office. He would have been fired if he was in any organization except 76ers.

To sign Tobias and Al for the bloated contracts was a mistake. Trading for Tobias was a even bigger mistake.

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