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Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else!

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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#101 » by eyeatoma » Sun Oct 4, 2020 1:37 am

agiaco wrote:Gotta replace Horford with a guard.
Yup

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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now drain the front office already! 

Post#102 » by Black Mage » Sun Oct 4, 2020 4:47 am

76ciology wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
76ciology wrote:Lue adjusts better, from what Ive read.

But if I have to between between Lue or Doc on who will get Biid and Ben to get scared straight, it will be Doc.

And from the grapevine, it sounds like Embiid will throw a tantrum 2.0 if we ever hire Lue.
Really not sure where you are hearing that stuff about Embiid not wanting Lue. That is pure speculation. Again, Lue is not associated with clutch so I don't get why you think he'll prefer Simmons.

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https://thepaintedlines.com/glenn-doc-rivers-inside-the-hiring/?amp#click=https://t.co/eUWTZ0JhZO

Star center Joel Embiid was opposed to the idea of Lue coaching the team, according to league sources familiar with the situation. Sources said that Embiid felt that Lue was adjacent to Klutch Sports and was ‘resistant’ to the prospect of someone with a pre-existing relationship with Ben Simmons coaching the team.

Meanwhile, Simmons had advocated for Lue. League sources told The Painted Lines’ Brian Jacobs that Lue had been their primary choice since deliberation about coaching changes began.


The earlier source I had for Lue to Sixers was from Ben’s camp also btw. Then this also explains why Embiid wanted MDA (LOL).

In the end, it’s all good since Biid looks happy that we hired Doc Rivers. We just need to get him happy


I don't blame Embiid even a little bit. He just went thru 3 years of watching baby ben coddled by Brett and being allowed as the only player on the team to play however he wanted and not sacrifice for teammates.

I'm not shocked even a little bit by a rumor Ben wanted yet another coach that he thought would protect his fragile emotions and let him stay in his "happy place" 2 inches from underneath the hoop.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#103 » by Black Mage » Sun Oct 4, 2020 5:12 am

Phila Tough wrote:I'm really looking forward to seeing how Tobias will look under him.


Fixed this.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#104 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 4, 2020 5:58 am

https://www.gq.com/story/anthony-davis-lakers-nba-finals

Watching how the playoff is unfolding from the rise of the guards to the unexpected twist of the death of the small ball made me think that one of the reason why Doc (a guy who knows basketball) decided to coach our team is Embiid and the return of playing big.

Doc saw it first hand when his Clips team has no answer for Jokic.

Another thing to look at is the west will be stacked next season. Lakers is looking like one of their dynasty runs while GSW will be back at full strength. Nuggets looks like they are on the way up.

While in the east? Raps may be going into a rebuild, which is a big roadblock to take away. While you can’t really see most of the top teams in the east being better that how they played this season. Such as the Heat, Bucks and Celtics. There is the Nets but they are sort of a wildcard which looks more like Rockets 2.0
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#105 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 4, 2020 6:22 am



I can see us running this type of offense. Doc loves offscreen shooters like JJ and Ray. Guys like Herro is also a lot more available. Maybe Milton or Kork can play that part?

One intriguing idea is Tobi playing that Duncan Robinson part.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#106 » by youngcrev » Sun Oct 4, 2020 12:40 pm

Ben can play the Bam/Draymond role (and I think that's a good way to utilize him), but we don't have any good movement shooters at the moment. Worked great with JJ.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#107 » by M2J » Sun Oct 4, 2020 3:08 pm

Definitely seems like they'd like to go that route. Alvin Gentry is who installed the system in Golden State for Kerr. Seems like a good landing spot for him as an assistant. As opposed to Sacramento who also wants him... Unless he feels like he could someday take over for Walton.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#108 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 4, 2020 4:20 pm

Thinking about it.. brett will have a hard time finding a new team.

If you are rebuilding, would you hire him after the lack of development you’ve seen from Ben?

If you are competing, would you hire him when Biid and Ben wouldn’t even respond to him and he has been proven to be a bad playoff coach compared to guys like Nurse or Stevens.

I think he’d be good for a charlotte bobcats or indiana pacers type team that is not rebuilding or isnt looking to win the championship. A team that is happy to just make it to the playoffs.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#109 » by Skates » Sun Oct 4, 2020 4:21 pm

I love reading posts by folks who claim one coach or another is going to come in and scare, intimidate, put Simmons and/or Embiid in their place, etc, etc. As if these guys are scrubs worried about getting cut or earning their next paycheck. Both need to grow and learn and adjust their mindsets in different ways, but the coach who can do that has to be someone who gains their respect without being too soft or overbearing. Someone who can convince them that there is a cogent plan to succeed, that each plays an integral part in it and can get them each to buy into wanting to be more, to be different, to sacrifice in some places and advance in others. Just stop with the "he's going to lay down the law" or "put player X in his place", we are talking about guys who have both made All-NBA teams, have monster, long term guaranteed contracts and if they wanted out would have plenty of other teams ready and willing to take on building around or working in their unique talents. This isn't High School or even college, that kind of mind set won't work and these two might just be at that stage in their careers where they have had some individual accolades, but hunger for team success. If Doc Rivers can be the guy that lays out that plan, reaches them, matures their games and mindsets and doesn't pigeon-hole either unique talent into something some other player did once for some other team, he will be successful and the rest is up to the FO to give them the rest of the tools to finish the job.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#110 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 4, 2020 4:26 pm

youngcrev wrote:Ben can play the Bam/Draymond role (and I think that's a good way to utilize him), but we don't have any good movement shooters at the moment. Worked great with JJ.


This offense is almost in line with what we have.

Tobi and Milton can play that Herro-Robinson role, while Ben and Biid can play that Butler and Bam’s role. Even Al would be perfect for that Bam role. Then you can just find a cheap PG like Teague (if you can find someone better then it’s fine) to play Dragic’s role. Where he can run some pick and rolls and some spot up.

This way you dont have to overpay for CP3 or risk hurting Ben’s fragile ego. If you can get Hield then let him play Herro’s role, then it would be better.

Take it with a grain of salt. You guys may have better ideas. Just throwing it out as one of the examples of the things we can do.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#111 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 4, 2020 4:31 pm

Skates wrote:I love reading posts by folks who claim one coach or another is going to come in and scare, intimidate, put Simmons and/or Embiid in their place, etc, etc. As if these guys are scrubs worried about getting cut or earning their next paycheck. Both need to grow and learn and adjust their mindsets in different ways, but the coach who can do that has to be someone who gains their respect without being too soft or overbearing. Someone who can convince them that there is a cogent plan to succeed, that each plays an integral part in it and can get them each to buy into wanting to be more, to be different, to sacrifice in some places and advance in others. Just stop with the "he's going to lay down the law" or "put player X in his place", we are talking about guys who have both made All-NBA teams, have monster, long term guaranteed contracts and if they wanted out would have plenty of other teams ready and willing to take on building around or working in their unique talents. This isn't High School or even college, that kind of mind set won't work and these two might just be at that stage in their careers where they have had some individual accolades, but hunger for team success. If Doc Rivers can be the guy that lays out that plan, reaches them, matures their games and mindsets and doesn't pigeon-hole either unique talent into something some other player did once for some other team, he will be successful and the rest is up to the FO to give them the rest of the tools to finish the job.


We’ll never know because we have never been a coach or a player in the NBA.

Here’s something to think about (because nothing is concrete).. butler said there are some guys on our team who only cares about money and fame. Doc believes that there really are some players who just wants to be happy even though they have potential for greatness. He said he can only push guys who wants to be great.

What I do know is Brett’s age and what he’s done is does not warrant any respect from Biid and Ben. I think both guys only see Brett as equal or maybe lower.

Nevertheless, I think the MSM has said it best that if Ben and Biid never develops they wont have the coach as a scape goat now.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#112 » by youngcrev » Sun Oct 4, 2020 4:35 pm

76ciology wrote:
youngcrev wrote:Ben can play the Bam/Draymond role (and I think that's a good way to utilize him), but we don't have any good movement shooters at the moment. Worked great with JJ.


This offense is almost in line with what we have.

Tobi and Milton can play that Herro-Robinson role, while Ben and Biid can play that Butler and Bam’s role. Even Al would be perfect for that Bam role. Then you can just find a cheap PG like Teague (if you can find someone better then it’s fine) to play Dragic’s role. Where he can run some pick and rolls and some spot up.

This way you dont have to overpay for CP3 or risk hurting Ben’s fragile ego. If you can get Hield then let him play Herro’s role, then it would be better.

Take it with a grain of salt. You guys may have better ideas. Just throwing it out as one of the examples of the things we can do.


Not really. Neither of those guys is adept at hitting shots on the move.

And while I think Horford is capable of some of the Bam stuff too, Bam doesn't work if he's got another Bam on the floor with him.

This team doesn't have anyone capable of filling the roles that Butler, Dragic, Herro or Robinson fill in that offense.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#113 » by M2J » Sun Oct 4, 2020 5:08 pm

Skates wrote:I love reading posts by folks who claim one coach or another is going to come in and scare, intimidate, put Simmons and/or Embiid in their place, etc, etc. As if these guys are scrubs worried about getting cut or earning their next paycheck. Both need to grow and learn and adjust their mindsets in different ways, but the coach who can do that has to be someone who gains their respect without being too soft or overbearing. Someone who can convince them that there is a cogent plan to succeed, that each plays an integral part in it and can get them each to buy into wanting to be more, to be different, to sacrifice in some places and advance in others. Just stop with the "he's going to lay down the law" or "put player X in his place", we are talking about guys who have both made All-NBA teams, have monster, long term guaranteed contracts and if they wanted out would have plenty of other teams ready and willing to take on building around or working in their unique talents. This isn't High School or even college, that kind of mind set won't work and these two might just be at that stage in their careers where they have had some individual accolades, but hunger for team success. If Doc Rivers can be the guy that lays out that plan, reaches them, matures their games and mindsets and doesn't pigeon-hole either unique talent into something some other player did once for some other team, he will be successful and the rest is up to the FO to give them the rest of the tools to finish the job.


The FO and coach should have and do have tools to reach difficult players though. Like 76 brought up.... Doc said before he can only push players that want to be great. He has the clout to be able to say that publicly here directly about those 2 guys, and implement public scrutiny. Take them out in important parts of the game, or minimize their role. Brett did that, and I was impressed at times, but he still stroked their egos publicly. Yet, I do think the coach and front office needs to be able to put this behavior in perspective to the player use it to motivate. Players don't want to be known as team cancers, nor do they want to get traded to Utah, Charlotte, or DC.

Good players want to be coached hard too. Did you not hear what they had to say about nice guy Brett, a day before he was fired.

There have been rumors that Riley had to talk to check Butler about his leadership style. Instead of calling your teammates out for things publicly, work with them to get you to follow you to workout at 4am.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#114 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 4, 2020 5:52 pm

76ciology wrote:Thinking about it.. brett will have a hard time finding a new team.

If you are rebuilding, would you hire him after the lack of development you’ve seen from Ben?

If you are competing, would you hire him when Biid and Ben wouldn’t even respond to him and he has been proven to be a bad playoff coach compared to guys like Nurse or Stevens.

I think he’d be good for a charlotte bobcats or indiana pacers type team that is not rebuilding or isnt looking to win the championship. A team that is happy to just make it to the playoffs.


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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#115 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 4, 2020 6:20 pm

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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#116 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 4, 2020 7:00 pm

For a team that does not run a lot of their offense around their PG.. man.. Clips run a LOT of PnR. They are top 5 in terms of frequency. Who run the most PnR on their team? Lou Williams. They run it collectively with Lou, Kawhi and PG.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#117 » by Sixerscan » Sun Oct 4, 2020 8:31 pm

76ciology wrote:For a team that does not run a lot of their offense around their PG.. man.. Clips run a LOT of PnR. They are top 5 in terms of frequency. Who run the most PnR on their team? Lou Williams. They run it collectively with Lou, Kawhi and PG.

He fit the offense to his personnel.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#118 » by Sixerscan » Sun Oct 4, 2020 8:53 pm

M2J wrote:
Skates wrote:I love reading posts by folks who claim one coach or another is going to come in and scare, intimidate, put Simmons and/or Embiid in their place, etc, etc. As if these guys are scrubs worried about getting cut or earning their next paycheck. Both need to grow and learn and adjust their mindsets in different ways, but the coach who can do that has to be someone who gains their respect without being too soft or overbearing. Someone who can convince them that there is a cogent plan to succeed, that each plays an integral part in it and can get them each to buy into wanting to be more, to be different, to sacrifice in some places and advance in others. Just stop with the "he's going to lay down the law" or "put player X in his place", we are talking about guys who have both made All-NBA teams, have monster, long term guaranteed contracts and if they wanted out would have plenty of other teams ready and willing to take on building around or working in their unique talents. This isn't High School or even college, that kind of mind set won't work and these two might just be at that stage in their careers where they have had some individual accolades, but hunger for team success. If Doc Rivers can be the guy that lays out that plan, reaches them, matures their games and mindsets and doesn't pigeon-hole either unique talent into something some other player did once for some other team, he will be successful and the rest is up to the FO to give them the rest of the tools to finish the job.


The FO and coach should have and do have tools to reach difficult players though. Like 76 brought up.... Doc said before he can only push players that want to be great. He has the clout to be able to say that publicly here directly about those 2 guys, and implement public scrutiny. Take them out in important parts of the game, or minimize their role. Brett did that, and I was impressed at times, but he still stroked their egos publicly. Yet, I do think the coach and front office needs to be able to put this behavior in perspective to the player use it to motivate. Players don't want to be known as team cancers, nor do they want to get traded to Utah, Charlotte, or DC.

Good players want to be coached hard too. Did you not hear what they had to say about nice guy Brett, a day before he was fired.

There have been rumors that Riley had to talk to check Butler about his leadership style. Instead of calling your teammates out for things publicly, work with them to get you to follow you to workout at 4am.


See the issue here?

Riley didn’t call Butler out publicly or embarrass him. There’s little evidence of stuff like that working. If you can’t get through to a guy one on one you’re probably not going to get through to him by going public. Maybe if there’s effort issues on a given night you can say you didn’t think so and so showed up but not something basic about a guy’s game. Think about how Brown trying to challenge Simmons publicly into taking a 3 a game turned out.

Really if Embiid needs to be in reasonable shape and Ben needs to be reasonably confident in his shot before they even show up for training camp. If we’re waiting until we’re a few weeks into the season for Doc to bench one of them it’s probably too late.

Skates is right imo, this is about those two having the right mindset and *allowing* Doc to get them to the next level rather than being something the coach is just supposed to get out of them.
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#119 » by Black Mage » Mon Oct 5, 2020 12:57 am

Sixerscan wrote:
M2J wrote:
Skates wrote:I love reading posts by folks who claim one coach or another is going to come in and scare, intimidate, put Simmons and/or Embiid in their place, etc, etc. As if these guys are scrubs worried about getting cut or earning their next paycheck. Both need to grow and learn and adjust their mindsets in different ways, but the coach who can do that has to be someone who gains their respect without being too soft or overbearing. Someone who can convince them that there is a cogent plan to succeed, that each plays an integral part in it and can get them each to buy into wanting to be more, to be different, to sacrifice in some places and advance in others. Just stop with the "he's going to lay down the law" or "put player X in his place", we are talking about guys who have both made All-NBA teams, have monster, long term guaranteed contracts and if they wanted out would have plenty of other teams ready and willing to take on building around or working in their unique talents. This isn't High School or even college, that kind of mind set won't work and these two might just be at that stage in their careers where they have had some individual accolades, but hunger for team success. If Doc Rivers can be the guy that lays out that plan, reaches them, matures their games and mindsets and doesn't pigeon-hole either unique talent into something some other player did once for some other team, he will be successful and the rest is up to the FO to give them the rest of the tools to finish the job.


The FO and coach should have and do have tools to reach difficult players though. Like 76 brought up.... Doc said before he can only push players that want to be great. He has the clout to be able to say that publicly here directly about those 2 guys, and implement public scrutiny. Take them out in important parts of the game, or minimize their role. Brett did that, and I was impressed at times, but he still stroked their egos publicly. Yet, I do think the coach and front office needs to be able to put this behavior in perspective to the player use it to motivate. Players don't want to be known as team cancers, nor do they want to get traded to Utah, Charlotte, or DC.

Good players want to be coached hard too. Did you not hear what they had to say about nice guy Brett, a day before he was fired.

There have been rumors that Riley had to talk to check Butler about his leadership style. Instead of calling your teammates out for things publicly, work with them to get you to follow you to workout at 4am.


See the issue here?

Riley didn’t call Butler out publicly or embarrass him. There’s little evidence of stuff like that working. If you can’t get through to a guy one on one you’re probably not going to get through to him by going public. Maybe if there’s effort issues on a given night you can say you didn’t think so and so showed up but not something basic about a guy’s game. Think about how Brown trying to challenge Simmons publicly into taking a 3 a game turned out.

Really if Embiid needs to be in reasonable shape and Ben needs to be reasonably confident in his shot before they even show up for training camp. If we’re waiting until we’re a few weeks into the season for Doc to bench one of them it’s probably too late.

Skates is right imo, this is about those two having the right mindset and *allowing* Doc to get them to the next level rather than being something the coach is just supposed to get out of them.


I'm not saying Embiid shouldn't be in shape to start, but you can survive a guy showing up and playing himself into shape. So if Embiid doesn't show up in shape I'm disappointed but not panicked.

Ben's issue cannot be fixed during the season. If he shows up and still won't shoot then he should be moved at the trade deadline because he's a lost cause. This isn't like Lebron or Giannis trying to learn to shoot a good percentage, this is a guy with the "yips."
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Re: Welcome Glenn (Doc) Rivers - Sixers hire new head coach! Now fire everyone else! 

Post#120 » by M2J » Mon Oct 5, 2020 1:40 am

Sixerscan wrote:
M2J wrote:
Skates wrote:I love reading posts by folks who claim one coach or another is going to come in and scare, intimidate, put Simmons and/or Embiid in their place, etc, etc. As if these guys are scrubs worried about getting cut or earning their next paycheck. Both need to grow and learn and adjust their mindsets in different ways, but the coach who can do that has to be someone who gains their respect without being too soft or overbearing. Someone who can convince them that there is a cogent plan to succeed, that each plays an integral part in it and can get them each to buy into wanting to be more, to be different, to sacrifice in some places and advance in others. Just stop with the "he's going to lay down the law" or "put player X in his place", we are talking about guys who have both made All-NBA teams, have monster, long term guaranteed contracts and if they wanted out would have plenty of other teams ready and willing to take on building around or working in their unique talents. This isn't High School or even college, that kind of mind set won't work and these two might just be at that stage in their careers where they have had some individual accolades, but hunger for team success. If Doc Rivers can be the guy that lays out that plan, reaches them, matures their games and mindsets and doesn't pigeon-hole either unique talent into something some other player did once for some other team, he will be successful and the rest is up to the FO to give them the rest of the tools to finish the job.


The FO and coach should have and do have tools to reach difficult players though. Like 76 brought up.... Doc said before he can only push players that want to be great. He has the clout to be able to say that publicly here directly about those 2 guys, and implement public scrutiny. Take them out in important parts of the game, or minimize their role. Brett did that, and I was impressed at times, but he still stroked their egos publicly. Yet, I do think the coach and front office needs to be able to put this behavior in perspective to the player use it to motivate. Players don't want to be known as team cancers, nor do they want to get traded to Utah, Charlotte, or DC.

Good players want to be coached hard too. Did you not hear what they had to say about nice guy Brett, a day before he was fired.

There have been rumors that Riley had to talk to check Butler about his leadership style. Instead of calling your teammates out for things publicly, work with them to get you to follow you to workout at 4am.


See the issue here?

Riley didn’t call Butler out publicly or embarrass him. There’s little evidence of stuff like that working. If you can’t get through to a guy one on one you’re probably not going to get through to him by going public. Maybe if there’s effort issues on a given night you can say you didn’t think so and so showed up but not something basic about a guy’s game. Think about how Brown trying to challenge Simmons publicly into taking a 3 a game turned out.

Really if Embiid needs to be in reasonable shape and Ben needs to be reasonably confident in his shot before they even show up for training camp. If we’re waiting until we’re a few weeks into the season for Doc to bench one of them it’s probably too late.

Skates is right imo, this is about those two having the right mindset and *allowing* Doc to get them to the next level rather than being something the coach is just supposed to get out of them.


I see what you're saying, and I think we're saying much of the same thing. Embiid being in shape is going to be something that he has to continue to work on during the season too. The only issue I have when Simmons is effort and aggression, not shooting a three(though he should really do it). I don't think calling him out over 3s is productive.

I have seen and know that a coach coming out publicly holding his players accountable is and has been a time honored tradition. Specifically your stars. Not calling someone out in their game, not taking care of their responsibilities. "We need more out of our center defensively or down the stretch";. "We need Ben to attack more, he's at his best when that's his mindset". The media will run with that, and the coach needs to work harder behind the scenes to draw it out. With Ben still being a player under development and very young, that shouldn't be much of an issue for him. Calling out Embiid, by announcing he was winded and that's why he didn't play that much is the type of button pushing Joel responds to. That's of course after doing it privately.

Going back to Skates point and away from the public or not issue. Players want to be coached hard, these players are begging for it. Being told about their effort (whether offensively with Ben or cardio with Jo... My issues) behind the scenes face to face is not treating them like college athletes. If they don't like it, you have to trade them, because they'll never be great the way they are now.

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