cgf wrote:See you're falling into the typical english trap of conflating playing hard and with passion with playing defensively and parking the bus. Our boys are still pushing forward, aggressively building up and challenging teams with dangerous long balls into our streaking wingers or big striker to push them back when we can't build as smoothly as we like, but balls aren't going into the net, the d has been extra sloppy and the team has started playing a lot more of the kids since promotion is functionally impossible. Which would be frustrating if they weren't still pouring the blood, sweet and tears on the pitch to try to play attractive football, even when we play the big teams in the division who out gun us.
That's why the result is secondary to the performance. If the players play with courage, ingenuity, and honor they will get the respect and love of the now 20+ thousand who populate die Alte Forsterei, whether we secure the points or not.
Which isn't to say Chelsea didn't passionately park their bus in the matches you referenced
, just something I see a lot of english commentators doing that is a clear misrepresentation of what playing with passion really means as they scramble to defend this performance as anything other than pure cynicism and cowardice.
But playing with passion doesn't just come in the attacking sense, against Atleti Chelsea were barely troubled and I wouldn't count that as playing hard. Mourinho had a gameplan but the players just couldn't execute it. I am English so I guess I was born into that trap
Whereas the game against Bayern and Barcelona was backs to the walls stuff, players flinging their bodies to get something on the ball, they were organised, orders were shouted at every second of the game, everybody in that Chelsea was not only anxious but amped for it, blood, sweat and tears were poured during that CL run.
Just because they parked the bus and played defensively those games doesn't mean they didn't show any passion, it was clear from not only the scenes when Torres scored or when Drogba scored that the work they've put in to be able to keep themselves with a chance of winning, and achieve a high none of them have ever experienced. Everybody knew Bayern/Barca are the better team, and they knew they had to use that plan in order to stand a chance of winning that's why those players play for Barca/Bayern, they couldn't let Barca/Bayern play to their strengths otherwise it would've been a massacre.
Yes it's true respect does come with playing an attractive brand, and I do admire it like Arsenal against Bayern last year, but tell that to Wenger and the thousands of fans who asks for him to be sacked, or Scolari on his first few months here, Ancelotti, or even AVB. At the end of the day, at a club like Chelsea with an owner like Roman, results always come first and I think that's why we're going to differ in opinion. [/quote]
cgf wrote:See if Chelsea only did this sort of thing when they were out matched like against Bayern or Real that'd be one thing. But that's not the only time Mou turns to his old underdog tricks. He uses it against peers a lot and against teams that Chelsea actually have more firepower than. That's the gripe, not that Chelsea have these games because, you're right only Klopp and Streich can get away with always pressing all over the pitch against any opponent. Other teams that are ruled by the laws of physics do have to go about things very carefully when out manned, but Chelsea doesn't only turn to the tactic when out manned.
I also think those games where Mourinho forgets to cast his voodoo spell make it all the more frustrating as a neutral because you can clearly do some really awesome things but Mourinho, who's a coach I respect a lot, who's responsible for one of the most exciting CL seasons I've watched behind Dortmund's two great runs, and who's:
are some of my favorite things about the sport's off the pitch activities, holds you back from really establishing that kind of identity that would let you advantage of the fact that you could start Hazard, Schurrle, Willian, Oscar, Luiz and Matic in front of the back line. That could be one of the most fluid and dynamic front 6s in the sport with a team dedicated to the Kloppo/Striech/Tuchel way. But Mou, as much as I love so much about him, just isn't that guy tactically. He's a destroyer and not a creator although he's a great destroyer, who does an excelent job of not handcuffing his stars too much despite the anti-football tactics..
Bayern haven't been very entertaining since they functionally secured the BuLi, and have half-assed a good chunk of the CL as well. And honestly I had my gripes about Pep's over-emphasis on possession even when they were scoring 3-4 goals a game doing it. Cause again it's not just the result, it's the performance and watching Bayern slowly pass their way from side to side with super-careful passes is boring whether someone puts the final ball into the net or not.
I did always get a lot of amusement out of how Mourinho and Pep always disliked each other considering that they are two sides of the same anti-football coin and strategically very similar, simply using completely opposite tactics to achieve those strategic goals.
It's clearly fair to say that Atletico are a better version of us, mainly because they have Diego Costa. Atletico's strengths is on the counter attack so why let them play to their strengths? As we saw during their match-up against Barcelona. Let them have the ball, don't let them break away with speed, let us counter against them since it's one of our strengths too. If Bayern had played this Atletico team, I think they could've pulled it off.
That's Mourinho's blueprint for this team, is a fast counter attacking team, in more cases than not the game plan is there but the execution isn't which is what has been our major downfall this year along with not being able to play possession football properly, which is why I think Mourinho tends to opt for this tactic, just watch the West Ham/Palace/West Brom/Sunderland/Basle games as an example of how this team isn't built on possession.
I agree that front 6 could cause damage, maybe that's what's Mourinho is working towards this is in his own words a transitional season, especially considering Schurrle hasn't been that great this year, Oscar has fallen off a bit due to fatigue, Willian can't handle being the main playmaker as awesome as he is. Hopefully next year the system clicks. He is a great destroyer, I'll give you that, he did build a decent counter attacking/fluid Madrid side, maybe he can replicate the same success with these players too.
I agree, if Mourinho is anti-football then so is Pep, literally two sides of the same coin. I think they mainly disagreed because of their huge egos
