2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[bwgood77]

You know, over the years, you've probably seen me say "If Kawhi is healthy, the Clippers will be very tough to beat" and thought of them as one of the toughest teams. But come playoffs, he'd get injured.

Then this year with George gone, etc, I kind of figured they were done.

But of course Kawhi is healthy and playing in b2bs for the first time in over a year, and they are on a roll. Since we beat them, they are 14-3, beating a lot of good teams and only losing one bad one.

[bwgood77]

What's also still crazy is that any of the WC teams from 3rd to 8th, could literally still drop down to the play in and miss the playoffs.

I don't really think any of the 3 teams in the 8/9/10 spots can beat anyone. I thought Dallas would look better. We could if KD is back and we get super hot one or two games.

Memphis is somewhat reeling but they finally won. They usually play well against us though. We usually play well against the Clips but they have seemed much much better since we last played them.

I'm surprised the Kings blew games to the Wizards and Magic...mainly the Wizards. Had they beat the Wizards our chances would be very slim, but they could theoretically lose out and if we just win our last two.

It doesn't matter that much to me at this point. Hopefully our pick doesn't win the #1 pick in the lottery. If that happens, not only will we have traded Flagg, Bridges, Cam, Jae, and 3 other unprotected first rounders and an unprotected swap for an aging injury prone KD, but Houston won't really have a need to trade with us. They are already the 2nd best team in the west and with Flagg they really wouldn't have a need for Book, much less KD.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

When talking about roster construction for a top-tier competitive team, and your top 2 players are mid-range dominant, it becomes important to surround those 2 players with absolute knock-down shooters from three and a dominant low post scoring presence to cause gravity and force defenses to collapse. How we should target these two archetypal players in trade and the draft or even by way of free agency when, if post KD trade we can get below the 2nd apron should be an absolute top priority this summer!

The stats that posts only show that Booker and KD have good talent and abilities.... as individuals.

Either are horrible team leaders and I question Booker as a team mate considering he's the knly one left from the 2021 Finals team.... seems to me he slowly pushed his other team mates away indirectly and directly...

Very likely true. I'm still of the mind to blow it up and completely rebuild our roster, front office, and most importantly our culture and competitive approach too. This whole choir boy/ boy scout, beat teams by being more skilled and higher IQ is just such a failed gimmick that's never panned out!

We need tough, physical, dominant, truly explosive and elite athletes with that killer instinct and tenacity. Not this passive mentally weak fragile/ finesse approach. W3 also need size, length and grit! We're simply missing too many key factors to keep trying to
Bandaid the situation and run things back rinse and repeat!

Seone really needs to explain the definition of insanity to our owner and front office! James Jones absolutely needs to go!!! And Isaiah Thomas needs to follow as well.

Ishbia needs to bring in a legit tenured NBA GM with an actual resume and vision of success. And we need to stop the incredible stupidity and rebuild organically through the draft and free agency following the OKC, Houston and Memphis blueprints.

Our plan should be to trade both KD and Booker, load up on young explosively athletic exciting talent and picks, trade or buyout Beal's final year ( expiring) targeting 26' free agency loaded with star and high end talent!

And return to a fast break style offense rooted from smothering/ relentless chaotic defense! Let our defense lead to offense basically!

[handsome salary]

Tickets for remaining home games now 20% off. Would love if the arena was half full or less for them.

[sunsbum]

Can anybody in keep Booker camp here explain what exactly do we get with doing so? How else can we regain our assets and reset this franchise?

I don’t think anyone is in the “keep booker camp” besides Ishbia. Some of us have just accepted our fate.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Can anybody in keep Booker camp here explain what exactly do we get with doing so? How else can we regain our assets and reset this franchise?

- Well, the way I see it, we'd get to see Booker retire here while making over 70 million playing out of his natural position trying to be a faux Chris Paul instead of Kobe anymore. And his overall legacy will diminish as a result= LOSS!

- We'd at best be fighting tooth and nail for a playin spot IF everything goes incredibly lucky for us and we can sneak out enough wins and avoid too many double digit blowouts during the season as an 11th-14th seed (lottery team)= LOSS!

- Also, would be giving up lottery level talent to opposing teams in exchange just for the privilege to get boat raced and "woodsheded" (azzes kicked emphatically) by the majority of the league until Booker finally can't take it anymore ( in 2-3 yrs) and demands a trade out of Phoenix! But at least we'll get to say we tried as we get back a "pennies on the dollar" value return for him= LOSS!

- And then we can take solace knowing that we chose to hold onto him ( telling ourselves that we're in control here) despite our rebuild now becoming at least 10-15 yrs instead of only maybe 2-3 had we cashed out when they both had optimal value! = HUGE LOSS!

- We'll get to say we chose to he the league's punching bag and the laughing stock of the league but at least got to watch our cherished 36 "unbothered" play together lackadaisacally as they both fade into irrelevancy! But at least we watched them play together for longer?
= LOSS!

- We'll be comforted though knowing that we helped the other teams through our surrendered picks, become perennial competitive powerhouses loaded with young talent entering their primes and great futures that we helped build at our expense as we enter our decade plus long rebuild. But touting our contribution and overall selflessness! = LOSS!

So, actually upon reflection, it's just all bad!!! And there's really no point here for anyone to continue pushing this delusion! Just because some refuse to accept reality, doesn't mean it no longer exists and we aren't subject to it's consequences! The first step towards recovery for some suns fans is to admit there's a problem!.............lol.

[BobbieL]

Can anybody in keep Booker camp here explain what exactly do we get with doing so? How else can we regain our assets and reset this franchise?

I don’t think anyone is in the “keep booker camp” besides Ishbia. Some of us have just accepted our fate.

Thats fair... and probably very accurate

Ishbia must think Booker is a selling point and he would attract people to attend games

NOTE: Winning games brings fans

[BobbieL]

You know, over the years, you've probably seen me say "If Kawhi is healthy, the Clippers will be very tough to beat" and thought of them as one of the toughest teams. But come playoffs, he'd get injured.

Then this year with George gone, etc, I kind of figured they were done.

But of course Kawhi is healthy and playing in b2bs for the first time in over a year, and they are on a roll. Since we beat them, they are 14-3, beating a lot of good teams and only losing one bad one.

I think George, Booker and Durant share some traits in terms of being that alpha winner

[RaisingArizona]

Can anybody in keep Booker camp here explain what exactly do we get with doing so? How else can we regain our assets and reset this franchise?

I don’t think anyone is in the “keep booker camp” besides Ishbia. Some of us have just accepted our fate.

Speak for yourself brodeo. I want him here and many in the AZ media rounds do too.

[BobbieL]

Can anybody in keep Booker camp here explain what exactly do we get with doing so? How else can we regain our assets and reset this franchise?

I don’t think anyone is in the “keep booker camp” besides Ishbia. Some of us have just accepted our fate.

Speak for yourself brodeo. I want him here and many in the AZ media rounds do too.

Who in the media, besides Flex want him to stay in Phoenix? And I only say Flex as I can see him thinking they have to keep Booker

Just because Gerald B reports that he is staying, or Kellan, doesn't mean they think its in the best interests to keep him.

I just know this - if Mike D was willing to trade the Nash rambler to get better, the Front Office should be open to listening on Booker.

[bwgood77]

I don’t think anyone is in the “keep booker camp” besides Ishbia. Some of us have just accepted our fate.

Speak for yourself brodeo. I want him here and many in the AZ media rounds do too.

Who in the media, besides Flex want him to stay in Phoenix? And I only say Flex as I can see him thinking they have to keep Booker

Just because Gerald B reports that he is staying, or Kellan, doesn't mean they think its in the best interests to keep him.

I just know this - if Mike D was willing to trade the Nash rambler to get better, the Front Office should be open to listening on Booker.

I think it will all come down to Book. He has said "he will never be in a rebuilding situation again" and "the grass isn't always greener on the other side" and "we will always compete" but if you are not adding good young talent, and are still getting worse and dropping in the standings, then it's even worse than rebuilding.

People can argue over trade KD for someone and keep Book and compete, or Bud is the whole problem and if you keep KD and Book and get a new coach we will suddenly be great, but I don't see us being better than ANY team ahead of us next year OR SA for sure. MAYBE the Kings depending on what they do. But I seriously doubt we are better than the Pelicans, who have just been throttled with injuries, keeping Murray and Herb Jones out most of the year, etc, and then Portland who is basically a game behind us anyway. They both have like top 9 picks. Utah also may start to compete harder and have as good as chance as anyone to get Cooper Flagg.

Utah already has some decent players in Kessler, Lauri, Collins, etc, and they have a ton of picks and have usually played us tough anyway.

We really need to rebuild. If we don't, I think we will be a bottom 3 WC team for a decade, if not next year, the year after that going forward. Barring we get some Jokic level player with the 29th pick..

Literally our only real chance is striking gold with our 29th pick or late round pick one year, and even then it would take them a few years to get good. We will probably trade those picks anyway for some guy that we think will move the needle but won't, or to dump Beal so we can add a guy for the MLE instead of taking a swing in the draft. We'd probably need to trade at least two of those to offload him. But if we don't pick up some good picks or more picks, our only real chance is making some Giannis/Jokic type pick at 29 but it would still probably not put us in the playoff picture yet and that player would not be hitting their prime until KD is long gone and Book is on serious decline. We need to get a lot younger, more athletic, and better defensively fast, or the longer our stay at the bottom will be. Right now I think it would likely be about a decade barring something crazy, given there is no real chance we have even a lottery pick until at least like 2032. And anyone we get then wouldn't even get to be really competitive until like 2035 or probably later. Sure, there is a chance we nail some big fish in FA, but we won't be able to have depth if we keep going after these overpaid stars that are on their 3rd contracts and soon to decline.

[BobbieL]

Speak for yourself brodeo. I want him here and many in the AZ media rounds do too.

Who in the media, besides Flex want him to stay in Phoenix? And I only say Flex as I can see him thinking they have to keep Booker

Just because Gerald B reports that he is staying, or Kellan, doesn't mean they think its in the best interests to keep him.

I just know this - if Mike D was willing to trade the Nash rambler to get better, the Front Office should be open to listening on Booker.

I think it will all come down to Book. He has said "he will never be in a rebuilding situation again" and "the grass isn't always greener on the other side" and "we will always compete" but if you are not adding good young talent, and are still getting worse and dropping in the standings, then it's even worse than rebuilding.

People can argue over trade KD for someone and keep Book and compete, or Bud is the whole problem and if you keep KD and Book and get a new coach we will suddenly be great, but I don't see us being better than ANY team ahead of us next year OR SA for sure. MAYBE the Kings depending on what they do. But I seriously doubt we are better than the Pelicans, who have just been throttled with injuries, keeping Murray and Herb Jones out most of the year, etc, and then Portland who is basically a game behind us anyway. They both have like top 9 picks. Utah also may start to compete harder and have as good as chance as anyone to get Cooper Flagg.

Utah already has some decent players in Kessler, Lauri, Collins, etc, and they have a ton of picks and have usually played us tough anyway.

We really need to rebuild. If we don't, I think we will be a bottom 3 WC team for a decade, if not next year, the year after that going forward. Barring we get some Jokic level player with the 29th pick..

Literally our only real chance is striking gold with our 29th pick or late round pick one year, and even then it would take them a few years to get good. We will probably trade those picks anyway for some guy that we think will move the needle but won't, or to dump Beal so we can add a guy for the MLE instead of taking a swing in the draft. We'd probably need to trade at least two of those to offload him. But if we don't pick up some good picks or more picks, our only real chance is making some Giannis/Jokic type pick at 29 but it would still probably not put us in the playoff picture yet and that player would not be hitting their prime until KD is long gone and Book is on serious decline. We need to get a lot younger, more athletic, and better defensively fast, or the longer our stay at the bottom will be. Right now I think it would likely be about a decade barring something crazy, given there is no real chance we have even a lottery pick until at least like 2032. And anyone we get then wouldn't even get to be really competitive until like 2035 or probably later. Sure, there is a chance we nail some big fish in FA, but we won't be able to have depth if we keep going after these overpaid stars that are on their 3rd contracts and soon to decline.

You nailed it all. I truly think if they keep Booker this summer, it will be 2035 or later until they are competing for the playoffs. That means the play-in game.

This summer is the chance to start anew. And that doesn't mean it will guarantee anything - as they can screw it up. But it will give them a chance

Keeping Booker just delays the in evitable And the chance to trade him for very good value will go down year after year

I could care less what Booker wants - not his choice. It should be what is the best for the franchise. Players get traded - its the reality of the business and league. And again, if Booker doesn't want to get traded, that tells me he is pretty comfortable in Phoenix because if he sees this roster and thinks it and can compete, he is delusional. I hope he asks for a trade as it would make 100% sense

[sunsbg]

Outside view on Suns offense and building around KD/Booker.

viewtopic.php?t=2451307

[BobbieL]

Outside view on Suns offense and building around KD/Booker.

viewtopic.php?t=2451307

Good read
and why I think being paired with Cade Cunningham in Detroit would be the best thing for his career

[sunsbg]

Outside view on Suns offense and building around KD/Booker.

viewtopic.php?t=2451307

Good read
and why I think being paired with Cade Cunningham in Detroit would be the best thing for his career

Yes, pairing him with someone like Cade makes a lot of sense, but we probably get better offers from other teams. Not that Ishbia is considering trading him right now anyway.

[Slim Charless]

How is that different? Jalen Green is young and an upcoming player full of energy. Beal usually plays like he is 40 years old...if he can play a couple consecutive games.

The redundancy in position isn't a big deal if they are great. The problem with Beal is that hasn't been a impact player since coming to the Suns.

If we could have the opportunity to get Anthony Edwards next to Book we wouldn't think about redundancy because he is a great athlete and amazing player...Jalen Green isn't Ant but he is closer to him than closer to Beal.

But I doubt we can get Jalen Green even for KD. His contract is looking an steal at this point.

That's an incredible post.....and very wrong. On multiple levels.

The highlighted portion though makes me think that you don't spend much time watching HOU games....

Jalen Green is 23 years old. He is the best scorer on the clear cut 2nd best team in the West.

He is playing 33.5 minutes per game. His defense is good...yeah, he isn’t Amen Thompson but basically no one can do that.

Again...21.7 points, 4.7 boards, 3.6 assists and shooting 35% from threes on more than 8 points attempts per game.

Do you think that he is not gonna keep improving? The guy plays with passion and wants to be great. His athleticism is wild.

What I think is that Houston will offer FVV or Dillon Brooks before they will offer Jalen Green. IMO they will try to avoid to trade any of Sengun, Amen or Jalen Green.

He's an inefficient chucker, who plays little to no defense and has little to no desire to involve his teammates in the game. He scores alot as he's the only one on the team that can put up numbers on the perimeter. He does it by chucking though as I've said.

Houston was rumored to have only signed him to that deal so they can find some other team to take him-for an actual good player. He also has a low BB IQ when it comes to crunch time situations.

You're welcome to your opinion but I think you've watched little to no Rockets games recently and are basing this entire post and the previous ones off stats you've read on ESPN or wherever you get your sports news.

If the offer is Dillion Brooks then it's a terrible offer for Durant unless they're giving all of our picks back and 2 more of theirs.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Tickets for remaining home games now 20% off. Would love if the arena was half full or less for them.

Does anyone else here notice the distinct parallels between our team and the Knicks and how Isaiah Thomas' fingerprints are all over two franchise's being ruined now!!

1- Giving away unprotected draft picks in trades for mediocre players who are oft injured or can't live up to their deals and only have brief flashes of success or are washed up retreads.

2- Constantly focusing on acquiring redundant undersized shoot first offensive guards while completely ignoring the defensive side of the court. All because he only looks at offense and disregards the critical importance of defense.

3- always adding positionally redundant players with overlapping skillsets that create terrible roster balance and roster construction deficiencies. Like having multiple one way small guards on a roster and then multiple unskilled bigs or wings that have limited skillsets and just aren't versatile.

- Constantly overpaying for (offering big contracts to) much worse players than what was previously had at the current position or multiple positions of the same type of players. And again always preferring undersized shoot first guards that play no real defense.

- a delusionally stubborn unwillingness to admit his mistakes and not only consider how players he's added to the roster might not fit or compliment one another to actually create a cohesive balanced unit!

Does most or all of these red flags seem eerily similar or familiar to our current situation??? Because if so, then you definitely have "puppeteer Thomas" also pulling some strings behind the scenes as well that crippled the Knicks franchise for years! And is now doing the same thing to the Suns franchise as well!!

[Frank Lee]

Tickets for remaining home games now 20% off. Would love if the arena was half full or less for them.

Don’t you mean half empty

[Saberestar]

That's an incredible post.....and very wrong. On multiple levels.

The highlighted portion though makes me think that you don't spend much time watching HOU games....

Jalen Green is 23 years old. He is the best scorer on the clear cut 2nd best team in the West.

He is playing 33.5 minutes per game. His defense is good...yeah, he isn’t Amen Thompson but basically no one can do that.

Again...21.7 points, 4.7 boards, 3.6 assists and shooting 35% from threes on more than 8 points attempts per game.

Do you think that he is not gonna keep improving? The guy plays with passion and wants to be great. His athleticism is wild.

What I think is that Houston will offer FVV or Dillon Brooks before they will offer Jalen Green. IMO they will try to avoid to trade any of Sengun, Amen or Jalen Green.

He's an inefficient chucker, who plays little to no defense and has little to no desire to involve his teammates in the game. He scores alot as he's the only one on the team that can put up numbers on the perimeter. He does it by chucking though as I've said.

Houston was rumored to have only signed him to that deal so they can find some other team to take him-for an actual good player. He also has a low BB IQ when it comes to crunch time situations.

You're welcome to your opinion but I think you've watched little to no Rockets games recently and are basing this entire post and the previous ones off stats you've read on ESPN or wherever you get your sports news.

If the offer is Dillion Brooks then it's a terrible offer for Durant unless they're giving all of our picks back and 2 more of theirs.

I have watched every Rockets-Suns game and I have been impressed with his game since last year.

Obviously I am not watching any other Rockets game (other than resumes) but that doesn't mean that I don't have enough eye test of his game. The guy is a killer.

[Djedefre]

Yeah, bwgood77 summed it up, simple and plain. This summer, we have the last chance to avoid a guaranteed 10 years of misery. Rebuild does not guarantee a thing, true, but that way we at least have a shot at pulling out this sunken ship and making it sail again in the near future (like 3-4 years). If we squander it again, it may appear advisable for this fandom to rest a bit from NBA altogether.