Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs

[BobbieL]

I was with you till that last sentence. Why would you love that deal? I'm not an expert on Philadelphia but the few times I've watched them I didn't see a player on the court for them that should be starting in the NBA. Wroten looked like a nice backup player although he's a horrible free throw shooter for his position. Noel looked like a nice college player.

better guard rotation of wroten dragic and Bledsoe
clearing salary cap space with the morris for possibly better deal down the road with a better player

the Morris brothers are tough. as they are pretty consistent - but I think the Suns need BETTER at three or four then what they have now.

if the Suns keep the Morri - okay with that - so many other players now: Zoran, Bogdanovich, Warren, Ennis, Bullock, Goodwin - not playing. draft picks to come. who gets those minutes

McD really needs to pair the roster down - luckily has some assets to work with. so maybe that is not the right deal for the Morris brothers. but I am open to whatever it takes to take this team from borderline 8 to solid top 4 team in the west. I like Dragic - but I want top 4 seed more

I can see the advantage of trading with Philly as they can absorb a lot of salary but maybe a multi team deal would work better? I'm just not sold on Nerlens longterm. If we move the twins, Thomas and Bledsoe with an eye towards a Dragic, Wroten, Tucker, Love, Len lineup I'd be excited about the possibilities but otherwise, moving Markieff leaves us with a huge hole.

I think we already have the roster of a top 4 seed team once Len hits his stride but that's probably 2 years away. I think we're better off waiting for that day but I wouldn't mind upgrading the forward spots either. But I think we need to have that upgrade in hand when we move the twins and I just don't see Noel in that conversation.

I agree about paring the roster down but I don't know that getting rid of starters is the way to do it, at least not until some of the young players convince the coaching staff that they are ready for major minutes.

You are right - in two years with a core of say Bledsoe, Len, Wright, Dragic, Morris twins , Bullock, and whomever - it can be a top 4 team. I guess your key word is patience.

I do see a lot of players/draft picks and not the roster spots or the minutes. So, I can envision Green not coming back and traded for a 2nd round pick by the deadline; I can see a move with Isiah Thomas - just to get salary cap space for next year for Wright.

And guys like Warren, Ennis, Bogdanovich, Bullock, Zoran, Goodwin, Lakers OR Suns pick (I think its important to keep draft picks even if drafting 25-32, cheap guys on four year deals) - the Suns have many assets to trade.

[Sunsdeuce]

^^ so let me get this straight. A core of average players (bledsoe, Marcus, markeiff, weight, bullock) will make the Suns a top 4 team. Interesting philosophy you have.

[NavLDO]

This is what I envision as a possibility of our depth chart to look like starting the '16/'17 season, (with their expected "value" compared to others in that role):

EB (Abv Avg-> All-Star) / IT (Top 3 bench PG) / Ennis (Abv Avg)
Dragic (Abv Avg) / Bullock (Abv Avg) / Goodwin (Well Abv Avg)
Warren (Avg->Abv Avg) / Tucker (Abv Avg) / CusMo (Abv Avg)
Kieff (Abv Avg) / '15 1st Rd Pick (Avg)
Len (All-Star) / Wright (Top 3 bench C) / Plumlee (Well Abv Avg)

That's assuming we keep our roster as is, which is highly doubtful, but the point is, with that roster, we're a solid playoff team, IMO.

Cocaine's a hell of a drug!

So where exactly do you disagree? Do you not think EB will be knocking on the (All-Star) door in two years? Or Len, for that matter? Len (per36 numbers by position) is already top 4 in Blocks, top 5 in FG%, and top 15 in rebounds, and will surely continue to progress by start of the '16 season. Will Kieff not be an above average PF? Do you not think that IT and Wright are a top 3, 2nd string player at their respective positions?

I mean, if you think I'm doing copious amounts of an illegal drug, then surely, you must disagree with most of what I laid out there. How would you rate most of these differently?

[Barkley_34]

^^ so let me get this straight. A core of average players (bledsoe, Marcus, markeiff, weight, bullock) will make the Suns a top 4 team. Interesting philosophy you have.

Why you hate bledsoe game? you chasing him in all your comments. Stop with this man...he is a good player,but has weaknesses (goran has too)

[Zelaznyrules]

^^ so let me get this straight. A core of average players (bledsoe, Marcus, markeiff, weight, bullock) will make the Suns a top 4 team. Interesting philosophy you have.

What did you do with Len, Dragic and Thomas? Trade them for donuts or something? Bledsoe and Markieff are already above average and Wright is solid for his role. I run hot and cold on Marcus, sometimes he's a great role player and sometimes he's just some idiot in a Suns uniform. But that's already challenging your "core of average players" claim even without considering that young players tend to get better over a period of time. It's unfathomable to me that someone would believe that everyone one of our young guys has already peaked as even bad young players usually improve.

[Zelaznyrules]

^^ so let me get this straight. A core of average players (bledsoe, Marcus, markeiff, weight, bullock) will make the Suns a top 4 team. Interesting philosophy you have.

Why you hate bledsoe game? you chasing him in all your comments. Stop with this man...he is a good player,but has weaknesses (goran has too)

There's a lot to hate about Bledsoe's game. There's far more to love about his game but once you've locked onto a player's weaknesses it becomes a real challenge to measure those shortcomings against the positives.

[Barkley_34]

^^ so let me get this straight. A core of average players (bledsoe, Marcus, markeiff, weight, bullock) will make the Suns a top 4 team. Interesting philosophy you have.

Why you hate bledsoe game? you chasing him in all your comments. Stop with this man...he is a good player,but has weaknesses (goran has too)

There's a lot to hate about Bledsoe's game. There's far more to love about his game but once you've locked onto a player's weaknesses it becomes a real challenge to measure those shortcomings against the positives.

I agree with you, but he is 24 years old, first season as starter (hurt in the other), has a lot to improve, I see some people judging all the time that player without giving opportunity and analyze abusively their defects. I remember Goran with 24...and he was not even close this player.

[Sunsdeuce]

^^ so let me get this straight. A core of average players (bledsoe, Marcus, markeiff, weight, bullock) will make the Suns a top 4 team. Interesting philosophy you have.

Why you hate bledsoe game? you chasing him in all your comments. Stop with this man...he is a good player,but has weaknesses (goran has too)

I'm sorry but the Suns have a rich history of PGs. Far as I am concerned the bar has been set. For me KJ is the benchmark. Bledsoe is about 1/4 of KJs ability.

Bledsoe like to post pictures of himself with KJ yet isn't even in the same conversation.

I would like bledsoe if he played within his ability. But he doesn't. Bledsoe shoots horrible shots. Shoots three when clearly he stinks. KJ rarely shot a threes because he understood his ability. KJ had deadly jump shoot from about 15 feet. Bledsoe shoots 15 foot shots that are mainly brings. KJs vision was outstanding. Bledsoes vision is piss poor.

Point is bledsoe touts himself as KJs second coming but the only thing they have in common is their ability to get to the rim.

I apologize if my PG standard is set high. It's all I know. KJ, Kidd, and nash have set a high bar.

(If your only argument why bledsoe is a good PG is his "defense" than you don't have a good argument why he is a good PG. Defense from a PG is a bonus not a main reason you have that PG starting. FOR the LAST TIME, the PG is the quarter back of your team. And bledsoe is equivalent to Kaepernick. He is great at a lot of things but the most important part, "PASSING")

[Sunsdeuce]

^^ so let me get this straight. A core of average players (bledsoe, Marcus, markeiff, weight, bullock) will make the Suns a top 4 team. Interesting philosophy you have.

What did you do with Len, Dragic and Thomas? Trade them for donuts or something? Bledsoe and Markieff are already above average and Wright is solid for his role. I run hot and cold on Marcus, sometimes he's a great role player and sometimes he's just some idiot in a Suns uniform. But that's already challenging your "core of average players" claim even without considering that young players tend to get better over a period of time. It's unfathomable to me that someone would believe that everyone one of our young guys has already peaked as even bad young players usually improve.

Simple answer Len is the only core player. I would really like dragic to be part of the core but with his free agency pending who knows.

Bottom line is the Morris twins, bledsoe, and especially IT are not "core" players. They are role players.

Core players are your most valuable/all-star players. Example of core players: Spurs: Duncan, manu, Parker. Thunder: Westbrook,Durant, ibaka. Golden state: curry, Thompson.
Those are core players.

[Barkley_34]

^^ so let me get this straight. A core of average players (bledsoe, Marcus, markeiff, weight, bullock) will make the Suns a top 4 team. Interesting philosophy you have.

Why you hate bledsoe game? you chasing him in all your comments. Stop with this man...he is a good player,but has weaknesses (goran has too)

I'm sorry but the Suns have a rich history of PGs. Far as I am concerned the bar has been set. For me KJ is the benchmark. Bledsoe is about 1/4 of KJs ability.

Bledsoe like to post pictures of himself with KJ yet isn't even in the same conversation.

I would like bledsoe if he played within his ability. But he doesn't. Bledsoe shoots horrible shots. Shoots three when clearly he stinks. KJ rarely shot a threes because he understood his ability. KJ had deadly jump shoot from about 15 feet. Bledsoe shoots 15 foot shots that are mainly brings. KJs vision was outstanding. Bledsoes vision is piss poor.

Point is bledsoe touts himself as KJs second coming but the only thing they have in common is their ability to get to the rim.

I apologize if my PG standard is set high. It's all I know. KJ, Kidd, and nash have set a high bar.

(If your only argument why bledsoe is a good PG is his "defense" than you don't have a good argument why he is a good PG. Defense from a PG is a bonus not a main reason you have that PG starting. FOR the LAST TIME, the PG is the quarter back of your team. And bledsoe is equivalent to Kaepernick. He is great at a lot of things but the most important part, "PASSING")

I agree with you fully, however I think he can develop a lot. Perhaps with a little more patience we will have a pleasant surprise with him in the coming seasons

[Sunsdeuce]

^^^
The things bledsoe can and should improve on are his shooting and shot selection. His vision and passing will not improve. Vision and passing are more of a natural ability. Not really something that can be taught.

Bledsoe needs to work on his ball handling, shooting, decision making, and shot selection. He needs to develop his sense of taking what the defense gives him. Those are things within his control.

Right now he is forcing things up too much and way over dribbling leading to too many turn overs.

I escept bledsoe for what he is. An extremely athletic guard. I'll leave it at that.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Dragic 5yr $60m
Wright 4yr $25m

I really like Wright, dude just puts the ball in the hoop...

Dragic is walking if that's the best the Suns can do...and I wouldn't blame him. 2 million per year less than they gave Bledsoe? Bye Gogi!

[Zelaznyrules]

Dragic 5yr $60m
Wright 4yr $25m

I really like Wright, dude just puts the ball in the hoop...

Dragic is walking if that's the best the Suns can do...and I wouldn't blame him. 2 million per year less than they gave Bledsoe? Bye Gogi!

I really hate this line of thinking even if it does mirror reality occasionally. I don't think Dragic is worth more than 11 or 12 million. And whether we overpaid Bledsoe or not should have no bearing on Dragic's deal. Is Goran worth more than Lowry? Or is he 24 years old and just beginning to show what he can do? If you ("you" being management) think he's worth 14 million then fine, pay him 14 million. But his contract has to stand on it's own, don't make a mistake just because you've already made one. And if you do decide to overpay him, as we did for Eric, do it for a better reason than Bledsoe's contract.

[Sunlight]

If Dragic wanna win Title like we all fans here, so then he have to take less than market value is like Lebron and Parker did. Otherwise bye bye.

[Revived]

If Dragic wanna win Title like we all fans here, so then he have to take less than market value is like Lebron and Parker did. Otherwise bye bye.

Why didn't Bledsoe take less than market value to win title here then?

[Revived]

Dragic 5yr $60m
Wright 4yr $25m

I really like Wright, dude just puts the ball in the hoop...

Dragic is walking if that's the best the Suns can do...and I wouldn't blame him. 2 million per year less than they gave Bledsoe? Bye Gogi!

I really hate this line of thinking even if it does mirror reality occasionally. I don't think Dragic is worth more than 11 or 12 million. And whether we overpaid Bledsoe or not should have no bearing on Dragic's deal. Is Goran worth more than Lowry? Or is he 24 years old and just beginning to show what he can do? If you ("you" being management) think he's worth 14 million then fine, pay him 14 million. But his contract has to stand on it's own, don't make a mistake just because you've already made one. And if you do decide to overpay him, as we did for Eric, do it for a better reason than Bledsoe's contract.

So you admit we overpaid for Bledsoe?

As for reasoning, yes he's an All NBA guard who when isn't playing with 2 other PG's is capable of putting up 20+ pts and 6+ assists a game on great efficiency.

[Saberestar]

Dragic: $54M / 4 years
Wright: $26M / 4 years

[thamadkant]

You wanna give Wright more money than we gave Kieff?

Listen Wright is a great fit for us and all but I don't think he's some rare talent. I think we should be able to secure him for $5M-$6M max. If he wants more than that, we can find someone else whether in the draft, free agency or through trades.

Lets not be the one to overpay him.

In short YES.

Wright plays the position the right way, finish at the rim, alter shots, positions himself down low to be an option for a team mate and applies pressure to the defense.

He is perfect to put on Anthony Davis defensively as he has the same length, athleticism and almost same agility.

Wright is worth a lot in the open market.

Kieff is nice but there are a some other cheap players who can replicate that 16/6 stat line... Or come close to it... Bass, Landry etc at 5-6 million a year.
He needs the ball a lot to be impactful too...

Wright doesn't need the ball to impact the game... He is a pest defensively.

Over exaggerate, much? Bass and Landry are nowhere near Kieff's production:

Pts--15.5 to 8.9 and 8.2
Rebs--5.9 to 3.6 and 4.4
WS--3.1 to 1.4 and 1.9
PER--17.0 to 15.5 and 15.9
Stl%--2.2 to 1.1 and .6
3PT%--33% on 2.5 attempts to 20% on .3 attempts and 0

AGE--25 to 29 and 31
$$--$8M/per to $6.9M and $6.5M/per

Oh, you must have meant Marcus, not Markieff...now it makes sense, yes, much closer in production, other than Marcus makes between $1.5M and $1.9M less. 9.8 pts, 3.8 rebs, 2.05 WS, 38.9% on 3.43 attempts--yep, pretty close.

Oh, unless you meant to compare Kieff to Favors, who makes almost $5M more per yr than Kieff, yet has similar production. Yes, Favors is a better rebounder and defender, but he contributes zilch from behind the arc, is worse from the charity stripe, has half as many steals, and 2/3 the number of assists.

Markieff is ranked 9th in pts/gm and 4th in steals for PFs. Yes, his rebound numbers are low, and yes, he has to compensate for his relatively short arms, but he is by no means in the same "grouping" as Bass and Landry--that's just flat out insulting to what Kieff has provided to this team. He's closer to DNowitzki/RAnderson/DGreen in type of play and production, than he is to BBass and CLandry.

It's amazing to me the level of insulting remarks Kieff gets on these boards. I certainly wouldn't say that he couldn't be upgraded, but again, he's similar in production to the 3 above this season, and two of which make more than him, while the other is still on a rookie contract, but does anyone want to get whether Green will fetch more than Kieff did? How about Brandan Wright? Yes, Wright will likely demand more in FA this off-season than Kieff, or at least close to it. If we can sign him for, say, $6.5M per this offseason, then we'll be in good shape, but anymore than that and we'll have to pass, I'd imagine.

But anyway, Kieff does very well for what he is, and is one of the more consistent players on this squad. But at the same time, he is a very tradeable prospect at just $8M per, but I certainly wouldn't do it unless it was a clear upgrade at the position, and if we do that, well, I doubt we have enough to pay Dragic as well.

We don't have to have All-NBA types at every position. We can have above average starters at most of our positions and be competitive. And I'm willing to wait a couple of years for that. This is what I envision as a possibility of our depth chart to look like starting the '16/'17 season, (with their expected "value" compared to others in that role):

EB (Abv Avg-> All-Star) / IT (Top 3 bench PG) / Ennis (Abv Avg)
Dragic (Abv Avg) / Bullock (Abv Avg) / Goodwin (Well Abv Avg)
Warren (Avg->Abv Avg) / Tucker (Abv Avg) / CusMo (Abv Avg)
Kieff (Abv Avg) / '15 1st Rd Pick (Avg)
Len (All-Star) / Wright (Top 3 bench C) / Plumlee (Well Abv Avg)

That's assuming we keep our roster as is, which is highly doubtful, but the point is, with that roster, we're a solid playoff team, IMO, with a very deep bench. I can't overstate how important it is to have a deep bench, IMO. All those star players can't play 48 minutes a game.

Ok my bad for not clarifying.
When Bass and Landry were same or similar age as Markieff, they played similarly to Markieff.

But the point was Markieff is nice but replaceable and can be upgraded.

Won't change my perspective until he can prove other wise that he can dominate the position and be a star.

[kennydorglas]

60/5 is our best offer for Dragic, I suppose.
I'd be okay with that.

[SunsFanSSOL]

^^ so let me get this straight. A core of average players (bledsoe, Marcus, markeiff, weight, bullock) will make the Suns a top 4 team. Interesting philosophy you have.

Why you hate bledsoe game? you chasing him in all your comments. Stop with this man...he is a good player,but has weaknesses (goran has too)

I'm sorry but the Suns have a rich history of PGs. Far as I am concerned the bar has been set. For me KJ is the benchmark. Bledsoe is about 1/4 of KJs ability.

Bledsoe like to post pictures of himself with KJ yet isn't even in the same conversation.

I would like bledsoe if he played within his ability. But he doesn't. Bledsoe shoots horrible shots. Shoots three when clearly he stinks. KJ rarely shot a threes because he understood his ability. KJ had deadly jump shoot from about 15 feet. Bledsoe shoots 15 foot shots that are mainly brings. KJs vision was outstanding. Bledsoes vision is piss poor.

Point is bledsoe touts himself as KJs second coming but the only thing they have in common is their ability to get to the rim.

I apologize if my PG standard is set high. It's all I know. KJ, Kidd, and nash have set a high bar.

(If your only argument why bledsoe is a good PG is his "defense" than you don't have a good argument why he is a good PG. Defense from a PG is a bonus not a main reason you have that PG starting. FOR the LAST TIME, the PG is the quarter back of your team. And bledsoe is equivalent to Kaepernick. He is great at a lot of things but the most important part, "PASSING")

Lol, Bledsoe never compared himself to KJ. All he did was post a fan made image on instagram with him and KJ in order to show off his "Suns Pride" that every was complaining he lacked all summer. The one who has compare him to KJ is Hornacek, saying that the Dragic/Bledsoe backcourt is reminiscent of Hornacek/Johnson.

Bledsoe shoots 3's because Hornacek encourages him too. Hornacek said last year that he thinks Bledsoe is a good midrange shooter, and he'd like to see him shoot more. Hornacek let's players play through their mistakes, and it has paid off, just look at Green who has seemingly revived his career have Hornacek instilled confidence in him by not yanking him out of the game immediately after missing a 3.

This just seems like unfounded hate probably due to Dragic favoritism or Bledsoe's perceived lack of appreciation of Phoenix during his contract hold out.