2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[Ghost of Kleine]

Also IF we traded for Russell at the deadline, wouldn't we also get his full bird rights since he has three seasons with Minnesota?? So we could pay him up to 175% of his 31 million (not that we'd want to of course) and I do think he'd resign for less to not only play here but to play with Book and have a more legitimate chance to compete.

But would we really want Russell? He's not that great but I guess he could play the point in place of Paul once he's gone. I just don't want to see us overreach and get burned by sacrificing FRP's that we're going to need for more than just bargaining chips.

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We'd want Russell in a swap for Paul. And no picks would be necessary as he's expiring and they've been looking to offload him. AND ALSO, They're pretty desperate to compete at a higher level in order to validate the Gobert trade (made it look successful and not such a dreadful failure) and also with a deeper postseason run with Paul, They'd be able to somewhat minimize the value they surrendered (picks) for Gobert. So the incentive is absolutely there and the interest too (after talking to a great many Wolves fans on the premise of exchanging Paul for Russell). They eagerly accepted!

As for him not being very good, He is averaging:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russeda01.html
17 points/2 rebounds/ 6+ assists on 46% FG/ 37% 3 PT/ 86%FT/ 55% EFG/ 59% TS. But his per 36#s are:
19 points/ 3 reb / 7 assists/ 1 steal. I'm absolutely positive he'd just need a change of environment and he'd primed to break out! Also he's closer to 6'5 than 6'4. But most importantly, Even his current production is better than what Paul is offering the team at the same 30 million contractual cost. So in a swap for Paul (Without picks involved) I'd be happy to take Russell back. And the beauty of this trade would be that we can give Russell some significant run alongside Booker for the rest of the season. And IF he shows out (as I would expect him to) we'd have his full bird rights to resign him if we choose. But IF he doesn't impress for whatever reason, we're not contractually obligated to him and we can use that money saved towards absorbing Johnson's extension at less of a tax penalty than IF we still had Paul or had to eat his 15 million partial guarantee!

Maybe we get really clever and trade Paul for Russell in a swap. And then also trade Saric/ Shamet/Craig/ future lotto protected 1st for Rozier or maybe even Van Vleet. And run one of those two at the backup SG spot (as an insurance policy) in case we decide to not resign Russell? Then his 30 million expiring salary would still count towards our Luxury tax penalties reduction and we'd just slot one of those two guards into Paul's role instead. an additional deal for Rozier could look like:

Crowder/Shamet/Saric/craig/future (lotto protected) 1st for Rozier/Oubre/Jones.
OR maybe
Crowder/Shamet/Saric/ Craig/ future (lotto protected) 1st for Rozier/ Washington/Richards.

(The Russell/ Rozier version)

Spoiler:

Russell /Booker/ Bridges/ Johnson/ Ayton.
Rozier /Okogie / Lee / PJ Washington/ Biyombo.
S Lee / Wash / Ish / Richards / Landale.

A deal for Van Vleet might look like:
Crowder/Saric/Payne/ Future (lotto protected) 1st for Van Vleet/ Achiuwa/ Hernangomez.
Then trade Cam Johnson/ Achiuwa/ Craig/ future 1st for Kuzma.

(Russell/Van Vleet/Kuzma version 1).

Spoiler:

Russell/ Booker/ Bridges / Kuzma / Ayton.
Van Vleet / Shamet / Okogie / Hernangomez/Biyombo.
S Lee / D Lee / Ish / FA / Landale.

OR

Spoiler:

Crowder/Saric/Payne/ future (lotto protected) 1st for Van Vleet/ Porter Jr.

(Russell/ Van Vleet version 2)

Spoiler:

Russell/ Booker / Bridges / Johnson/ Ayton.
Van Vleet/ D Lee / Okogie/ Porter Jr/ Biyombo.
S Lee / Wash / Okogie / Ish / Landale.

Spoiler:

Or maybe we just go " all in" (low scale) and do something like this:
Paul/ Shamet/ Crowder/ 2 Future ( Top 15 lotto protected) 1st for Van Vleet/ Trent /Boucher?
Follow that up with:
Saric/Johnson/ 23' (top 10) protected 1st for Kuzma?

Van Vleet/Kuzma version)

Spoiler:

Van Vleet/Booker/Bridges/Kuzma/Ayton.
Payne/ Trent/ Craig/ Boucher/ Biyombo.
Lee / Lee / Okogie/ Ish / Landale?

[Puff]

I think Suns will ultimately make a deal with the Jazz and get Vanderbilt and Beasley. Though I am hoping Suns get Clarkson instead of Beasley. I also wouldn't mind Olynyk if we could swing that kind of package but I doubt it. I think Hawks will regrettably end up deciding on keeping Collins since they are currently on a 5 game win streak and face the Hornets tonight.

Hornets opening up trade talks for Hayward, Rozier, and Oubre is more interesting now that the Lakers are rumored to stand pat at the deadline. I'm unsure who else has the wasted salary to match for Hayward while improving their team.

This would be the most ideal trade I would prefer:

Spoiler:

Suns get -
Jordan Clarkson
Jarred Vanderbilt
Kelly Olynyk

Heat get -
Jae Crowder
Landry Shamet

Jazz get -
Duncan Robinson
Dario Saric
Suns 2023 1st (1-13 protected)
Heat 2023 1st (1-18 protected)

I know many would disagree with the valuation that the Heat are getting while giving up their pick and think they'd want more for it. However, they desperately need a PF and Crowder is the easiest plug and play player in the league, and they get him while dumping Duncan Robinson and they get Shamet who is fairly similar to Robinson except at half the cost. Plug Shamet into Robinson's role on the Heat and he suddenly looks a lot better too then the way Monty Williams sets up Shamet's shots.

I think many folks feel Ainge doesn't want to take on long term money in a contract like Duncan Robinson, and I agree that holds merit for most circumstances. However, with the way the Jazz are currently constructed all of their contracts essentially expire after next season and I don't think Ainge wants to give a majority of those guys a new contract. Duncan Robinson is locked in to his deal and every team has to reach a salary cap floor anyway, plus he doesn't have any upside as a player but is a good role model off the court for teammates. This is the kind of 4d chess that Ainge is playing pretending to bite the sacrificial bullet in tying up long term salary in order to obtain a pick. Plus, in two years when the Jazz are ready to compete, Robinson's contract will be a great offering chip as an expiring contract.

Also, I know it's a stretch for the Suns to get all 3 of those players from the Jazz but the Jazz also want to open up more playing time for Walker Kessler, who has started the last 6 games for the Jazz averaging 11.5 points and 11.7 rebounds and 2.5 blocks in 29 minutes a game. He's only starting because Oly is injured.

This is the deal I think would most likely happen
Suns get -

Spoiler:

Malik Beasley
Jarred Vanderbilt

Jazz get -
Grayson Allen
Dario Saric
Suns 2023 1st (1-13 protected)
Blazers 2024 2nd round pick
Pacers 2025 2nd round pick

Bucks get -
Jae Crowder

I like all the players involved in a trade with the Jazz. I think that is one way for us to go. I really like the idea of Kuzma to be in a rotation with Cam Johnson and Mikal. That is where we need to spend our money. That is the new NBA. I am not convinced on Rozier or FVV.

However, if we get Beasley and Vnaderbilt we fill two areas of need, and they probably would not break the bank going forward. We have plenty of quality guards, they just all seem to be hurt I just cannot imagine some mega deal going down until this summer at the earliest

[Saberestar]

I think Suns will ultimately make a deal with the Jazz and get Vanderbilt and Beasley. Though I am hoping Suns get Clarkson instead of Beasley. I also wouldn't mind Olynyk if we could swing that kind of package but I doubt it. I think Hawks will regrettably end up deciding on keeping Collins since they are currently on a 5 game win streak and face the Hornets tonight.

Hornets opening up trade talks for Hayward, Rozier, and Oubre is more interesting now that the Lakers are rumored to stand pat at the deadline. I'm unsure who else has the wasted salary to match for Hayward while improving their team.

This would be the most ideal trade I would prefer:

Spoiler:

Suns get -
Jordan Clarkson
Jarred Vanderbilt
Kelly Olynyk

Heat get -
Jae Crowder
Landry Shamet

Jazz get -
Duncan Robinson
Dario Saric
Suns 2023 1st (1-13 protected)
Heat 2023 1st (1-18 protected)

I know many would disagree with the valuation that the Heat are getting while giving up their pick and think they'd want more for it. However, they desperately need a PF and Crowder is the easiest plug and play player in the league, and they get him while dumping Duncan Robinson and they get Shamet who is fairly similar to Robinson except at half the cost. Plug Shamet into Robinson's role on the Heat and he suddenly looks a lot better too then the way Monty Williams sets up Shamet's shots.

I think many folks feel Ainge doesn't want to take on long term money in a contract like Duncan Robinson, and I agree that holds merit for most circumstances. However, with the way the Jazz are currently constructed all of their contracts essentially expire after next season and I don't think Ainge wants to give a majority of those guys a new contract. Duncan Robinson is locked in to his deal and every team has to reach a salary cap floor anyway, plus he doesn't have any upside as a player but is a good role model off the court for teammates. This is the kind of 4d chess that Ainge is playing pretending to bite the sacrificial bullet in tying up long term salary in order to obtain a pick. Plus, in two years when the Jazz are ready to compete, Robinson's contract will be a great offering chip as an expiring contract.

Also, I know it's a stretch for the Suns to get all 3 of those players from the Jazz but the Jazz also want to open up more playing time for Walker Kessler, who has started the last 6 games for the Jazz averaging 11.5 points and 11.7 rebounds and 2.5 blocks in 29 minutes a game. He's only starting because Oly is injured.

This is the deal I think would most likely happen
Suns get -

Spoiler:

Malik Beasley
Jarred Vanderbilt

Jazz get -
Grayson Allen
Dario Saric
Suns 2023 1st (1-13 protected)
Blazers 2024 2nd round pick
Pacers 2025 2nd round pick

Bucks get -
Jae Crowder

I like all the players involved in a trade with the Jazz. I think that is one way for us to go. I really like the idea of Kuzma to be in a rotation with Cam Johnson and Mikal. That is where we need to spend our money. That is the new NBA. I am not convinced on Rozier or FVV.

However, if we get Beasley and Vanderbilt we fill two areas of need, and they probably would not break the bank going forward. We have plenty of quality guards, they just all seem to be hurt I just cannot imagine some mega deal going down until this summer at the earliest

I would like to get Vanderbilt because he fits really well and we don't have any player like him on our roster. Strong rebounder, versatile defender and he can handle and pass a bit on offense.

BUT I don't like Beasley because he is just a catch -and-shot SG with very low basketball IQ who can make some big mistakes on a playoff game.

With Damion Lee and Cam Johnson already on our roster I would prefer another type of player for that salary. Someone that can create or at least handle and dribble well enough.

At PG/SG I don't want any low IQ basketball player...that's why I would avoid players like D'Angelo Russell, Coby White or Malik Beasley.

[sunsfan1o1]

Sign Saban Lee to a standard contract and get rid of Washington jr. That man does not understand the meaning of pass the ball.

[Frank Lee]

I think it is important we acquire talent that is inked and not expiring.

half of our roster are on 1 yr deals. Who is Jones signing next year from this bunch? Biyombo is going to get a get a deal, may be the biannual? Hes ballin , but could go the way McGee did. We can probably sign SLee cheap. What about Jock? We’ll have the other exception at what 10mill? Can that be divied up ? Not sure how it all works, but it’s going to be hard to improve through free agency, and likely our pick is swapped out… does that leave a DA deal as the only chip left? Don’t think I can accept another ‘internal improvement’ hand job and another visit to the scrap pile.

[BobbieL]

I think Suns will ultimately make a deal with the Jazz and get Vanderbilt and Beasley. Though I am hoping Suns get Clarkson instead of Beasley. I also wouldn't mind Olynyk if we could swing that kind of package but I doubt it. I think Hawks will regrettably end up deciding on keeping Collins since they are currently on a 5 game win streak and face the Hornets tonight.

Hornets opening up trade talks for Hayward, Rozier, and Oubre is more interesting now that the Lakers are rumored to stand pat at the deadline. I'm unsure who else has the wasted salary to match for Hayward while improving their team.

This would be the most ideal trade I would prefer:

Spoiler:

Suns get -
Jordan Clarkson
Jarred Vanderbilt
Kelly Olynyk

Heat get -
Jae Crowder
Landry Shamet

Jazz get -
Duncan Robinson
Dario Saric
Suns 2023 1st (1-13 protected)
Heat 2023 1st (1-18 protected)

I know many would disagree with the valuation that the Heat are getting while giving up their pick and think they'd want more for it. However, they desperately need a PF and Crowder is the easiest plug and play player in the league, and they get him while dumping Duncan Robinson and they get Shamet who is fairly similar to Robinson except at half the cost. Plug Shamet into Robinson's role on the Heat and he suddenly looks a lot better too then the way Monty Williams sets up Shamet's shots.

I think many folks feel Ainge doesn't want to take on long term money in a contract like Duncan Robinson, and I agree that holds merit for most circumstances. However, with the way the Jazz are currently constructed all of their contracts essentially expire after next season and I don't think Ainge wants to give a majority of those guys a new contract. Duncan Robinson is locked in to his deal and every team has to reach a salary cap floor anyway, plus he doesn't have any upside as a player but is a good role model off the court for teammates. This is the kind of 4d chess that Ainge is playing pretending to bite the sacrificial bullet in tying up long term salary in order to obtain a pick. Plus, in two years when the Jazz are ready to compete, Robinson's contract will be a great offering chip as an expiring contract.

Also, I know it's a stretch for the Suns to get all 3 of those players from the Jazz but the Jazz also want to open up more playing time for Walker Kessler, who has started the last 6 games for the Jazz averaging 11.5 points and 11.7 rebounds and 2.5 blocks in 29 minutes a game. He's only starting because Oly is injured.

This is the deal I think would most likely happen
Suns get -

Spoiler:

Malik Beasley
Jarred Vanderbilt

Jazz get -
Grayson Allen
Dario Saric
Suns 2023 1st (1-13 protected)
Blazers 2024 2nd round pick
Pacers 2025 2nd round pick

Bucks get -
Jae Crowder

I like all the players involved in a trade with the Jazz. I think that is one way for us to go. I really like the idea of Kuzma to be in a rotation with Cam Johnson and Mikal. That is where we need to spend our money. That is the new NBA. I am not convinced on Rozier or FVV.

However, if we get Beasley and Vanderbilt we fill two areas of need, and they probably would not break the bank going forward. We have plenty of quality guards, they just all seem to be hurt I just cannot imagine some mega deal going down until this summer at the earliest

I would like to get Vanderbilt because he fits really well and we don't have any player like him on our roster. Strong rebounder, versatile defender and he can handle and pass a bit on offense.

BUT I don't like Beasley because he is just a catch -and-shot SG with very low basketball IQ who can make some big mistakes on a playoff game.

With Damion Lee and Cam Johnson already on our roster I would prefer another type of player for that salary. Someone that can create or at least handle and dribble well enough.

At PG/SG I don't want any low IQ basketball player...that's why I would avoid players like D'Angelo Russell, Coby White or Malik Beasley.

I just hope the Suns can have two things happen in the next 14-17 days:

1) get players back healthy and playing. even if minutes are staggered like how Cam J came back, night off now and again

2) make a trade with Crowder, maybe Saric or Shamet or Cam Payne - and get back a couple players that will contribute more

After that - see how the last couple months play out and the playoff start in Mid April

[Saberestar]

I think it is important we acquire talent that is inked and not expiring.

half of our roster are on 1 yr deals. Who is Jones signing next year from this bunch? Biyombo is going to get a get a deal, may be the biannual? Hes ballin , but could go the way McGee did. We can probably sign SLee cheap. What about Jock? We’ll have the other exception at what 10mill? Can that be divied up ? Not sure how it all works, but it’s going to be hard to improve through free agency, and likely our pick is swapped out… does that leave a DA deal as the only chip left? Don’t think I can accept another ‘internal improvement’ hand job and another visit to the scrap pile.

I would focus on getting Damion Lee back next year on a long-term deal.

He looks a good all-around player with terrific shooting...too valuable to lose him knowing how great he fits on the team.

I doubt that Biyombo will get anything more than another minimum contract. Last year he played even better than this season for us and he didn't get any good offer.

Obviously I would sign him again. Give him two years if needed.

Not sure about Landale. Some games he looks a tremendous backup C, some games he looks a G-League player. I am gonna wait to see how he plays the rest of the year.

[BobbieL]

I think it is important we acquire talent that is inked and not expiring.

half of our roster are on 1 yr deals. Who is Jones signing next year from this bunch? Biyombo is going to get a get a deal, may be the biannual? Hes ballin , but could go the way McGee did. We can probably sign SLee cheap. What about Jock? We’ll have the other exception at what 10mill? Can that be divied up ? Not sure how it all works, but it’s going to be hard to improve through free agency, and likely our pick is swapped out… does that leave a DA deal as the only chip left? Don’t think I can accept another ‘internal improvement’ hand job and another visit to the scrap pile.

I would focus on getting Damion Lee back next year on a long-term deal.

He looks a good all-around player with terrific shooting...too valuable to lose him knowing how great he fits on the team.

I doubt that Biyombo will get anything more than another minimum contract. Last year he played even better than this season for us and he didn't get any good offer.

Obviously I would sign him again. Give him two years if needed.

Not sure about Landale. Some games he looks a tremendous backup C, some games he looks a G-League player. I am gonna wait to see how he plays the rest of the year.

I like Lee - I agree about a longer term deal

Agree with Frank above bout getting players that are at least signed through 2023. Suns are so far over the cap - they pretty much have too

Next couple weeks should be fun - especially if they can win some games

[Qwigglez]

I think it is important we acquire talent that is inked and not expiring.

half of our roster are on 1 yr deals. Who is Jones signing next year from this bunch? Biyombo is going to get a get a deal, may be the biannual? Hes ballin , but could go the way McGee did. We can probably sign SLee cheap. What about Jock? We’ll have the other exception at what 10mill? Can that be divied up ? Not sure how it all works, but it’s going to be hard to improve through free agency, and likely our pick is swapped out… does that leave a DA deal as the only chip left? Don’t think I can accept another ‘internal improvement’ hand job and another visit to the scrap pile.

Not concerned for losing Biyombo or Jock. There will be plenty of backup big men available in free agency. Frank Kaminsky, Derrick Favors, Alex Len, Drew Eubanks, Dwight Powell, Jaxson Hayes, Thomas Bryant, Naz Reid.

I think the only player I'd be concerned about losing is Damion Lee (clearly Cam Johnson but I feel Suns will keep him.)

[SkyBill40]

I think it is important we acquire talent that is inked and not expiring.

half of our roster are on 1 yr deals. Who is Jones signing next year from this bunch? Biyombo is going to get a get a deal, may be the biannual? Hes ballin , but could go the way McGee did. We can probably sign SLee cheap. What about Jock? We’ll have the other exception at what 10mill? Can that be divied up ? Not sure how it all works, but it’s going to be hard to improve through free agency, and likely our pick is swapped out… does that leave a DA deal as the only chip left? Don’t think I can accept another ‘internal improvement’ hand job and another visit to the scrap pile.

Not concerned for losing Biyombo or Jock. There will be plenty of backup big men available in free agency. Frank Kaminsky, Derrick Favors, Alex Len, Drew Eubanks, Dwight Powell, Jaxson Hayes, Thomas Bryant, Naz Reid.

I think the only player I'd be concerned about losing is Damion Lee (clearly Cam Johnson but I feel Suns will keep him.)

We've rolled with Frank twice already and while I like him, I don't see a return. So long as Williams is still the coach, he won't get any run as it would be. Some of the others you mentioned wouldn't be too bad. I don't see a revisit of Len, either.

[Bogyo]

I think it is important we acquire talent that is inked and not expiring.

half of our roster are on 1 yr deals. Who is Jones signing next year from this bunch? Biyombo is going to get a get a deal, may be the biannual? Hes ballin , but could go the way McGee did. We can probably sign SLee cheap. What about Jock? We’ll have the other exception at what 10mill? Can that be divied up ? Not sure how it all works, but it’s going to be hard to improve through free agency, and likely our pick is swapped out… does that leave a DA deal as the only chip left? Don’t think I can accept another ‘internal improvement’ hand job and another visit to the scrap pile.

Not concerned for losing Biyombo or Jock. There will be plenty of backup big men available in free agency. Frank Kaminsky, Derrick Favors, Alex Len, Drew Eubanks, Dwight Powell, Jaxson Hayes, Thomas Bryant, Naz Reid.

I think the only player I'd be concerned about losing is Damion Lee (clearly Cam Johnson but I feel Suns will keep him.)

We've rolled with Frank twice already and while I like him, I don't see a return. So long as Williams is still the coach, he won't get any run as it would be. Some of the others you mentioned wouldn't be too bad. I don't see a revisit of Len, either.

The most important part of this is the first sentence by Frank Lee. Acquire talent that is not expiring. We are capped out.
We have (and pretty much had in the last 2-3 years, thanks "gm") 20-30 mill of dead(ish) salary on our roster with Saric and such, in injured or incompetent (coughcoughshametcough) players, or non-used exceptions - which is kinda same-same but different. Comes down to money being wasted or not utilized at all, anyways. Part of the reason why we didn't win it all if you ask me.

Our core of Book/Mikal/DA/2xCams/Craig/Biz/picks (+CPs expiring somehow?) should be good enough starting place to contend in the next 4-5 years IF the right trades and draftpicks are made - as we will not be able to sign anybody due to our cap situation. First step could be now. Should be. Continue in the offseason.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Overall we've been decent (middle of the road really to our credit. It'll be interesting to see how we do against fully healthy opposition, And also with our players being fully healthy as well??

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

First big trade? And no Olynyk or Beasley for us??

[BobbieL]

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First big trade? And no Olynyk or Beasley for us??

Robinson seems like negative value

But maybe the Suns take a chance since he is locked in at 18m or whatever

Crowder, Shamet and Saric for Robinson and Martin

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

First big trade? And no Olynyk or Beasley for us??

Robinson seems like negative value

But maybe the Suns take a chance since he is locked in at 18m or whatever

Crowder, Shamet and Saric for Robinson and Martin

For sure in most scenarios, But for Ainge possibly building a very strong long term core:
Sexton/ Robinson/ Vanderbilt/ Markannen/ Walker core is very strong also with Clarkson coming off the bench in a 6th man role too!

[bwoolf2]

Read on Twitter

First big trade? And no Olynyk or Beasley for us??

Robinson seems like negative value

But maybe the Suns take a chance since he is locked in at 18m or whatever

Crowder, Shamet and Saric for Robinson and Martin

For sure in most scenarios, But for Ainge possibly building a very strong long term core:
Sexton/ Robinson/ Vanderbilt/ Markannen/ Walker core is very strong also with Clarkson coming off the bench in a 6th man role too!

Better hope you land 1st or 2nd pick, that would be one of the weakest cores in the league

[Ghost of Kleine]

Robinson seems like negative value

But maybe the Suns take a chance since he is locked in at 18m or whatever

Crowder, Shamet and Saric for Robinson and Martin

For sure in most scenarios, But for Ainge possibly building a very strong long term core:
Sexton/ Robinson/ Vanderbilt/ Markannen/ Walker core is very strong also with Clarkson coming off the bench in a 6th man role too!

Better hope you land 1st or 2nd pick, that would be one of the weakest cores in the league

You really think so man?

I respect your opinion but will stick with my assessment.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Remember not too long ago when we were talking about targeting a shot blocking/rebounding 4/5 compliment next to Ayton to allow him to roam more effectively on/around the perimeter? That should still be our priority at the 4.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

I'll be happy to give them Shamet for Allen and Ibaka!

[Jesus_H_Macy]

Read on Twitter

Remember not too long ago when we were talking about targeting a shot blocking/rebounding 4/5 compliment next to Ayton to allow him to roam more effectively on/around the perimeter? That should still be our priority at the 4.

I'm surprised he's been that bad compared to the rest of the league, but he hasn't been good on D this year. At least not with any consistency. Jakob "Two 1sts" Poeltl at the bottom too.