The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[Sunsdeuce]

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What’s wild is Giannis is more of the face of the Bucks than Booker is to the Suns and the bucks ain’t gonna hesitate to trade Giannis. They know trading Giannis is the only realistic way to rebuild.

Not to mention there isn’t a single GM who would take Booker over Giannis.

[BobbieL]

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What’s wild is Giannis is more of the face of the Bucks than Booker is to the Suns and the bucks ain’t gonna hesitate to trade Giannis. They know trading Giannis is the only realistic way to rebuild.

Not to mention there isn’t a single GM who would take Booker over Giannis.

I 100% agree. And my comment earlier about building around Booker was more the fact that they aren't trading him and aren't even looking at trading. I don't get the "he wants to be here" has anything to do with making your team better. So for me, if you are bebuilding around Booker, be smart and sensible - its going to take a couple years just to get to where you can start to rebuild but these "super teams" are just not working

Secon d, I thought the goal was to win an NBA Title. And there should be conversations about seeing what value Devin Booker can bring. Instead of these stupid trades for Beal, that either bring back average players that won't do a damn thing OR it costs you more draft capital and nothing moves the needle for the Suns. But "Booker wants to be here" - so what? Other teams trade players - is the goal to appease a fan base that having Booker and Booker alone will cause somebody to shell out money for 41 homes games.

Last point, I don't think its unreasonable to suggest the Suns can build a better team around Beal trading Booker and Durant than around Booker if that means losing draft picks for Beal to offload him or stretching him. If healthy, Beal would get you 18-20ppg

[Ghost of Kleine]

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As someone who follows the draft and countless prospects researching too many prospect possibilities to the point of fanatical time investments, etc. I have to strongly disagree with Kellan Olson's take here. I mean sure there's a level of merit to what he's saying about the NIL now compensating players to stay in/ return to college after declaring.

However, that doesn't really significantly impact a franchises' total ability to flesh out major talents or hidden/ under the radar talents in various ranges of the draft!
If an average everyday guy like myself with almost zero resources by comparison can identify numerous obscure talents even into the 2nd round and even the undrafted ranges.


Then obviously there's just really no excuse for these franchises' with Billionaire owners and limitless resources to not be able to properly utilize the full capacity of those resources to return high level, major or impactful talent.

Even now, anyone could ask me the top 3-5 best high upside talents at their respective positions or at positions of need in our range at 29 or later in the draft. And ask for a specific archetypal fit. And I can still provide that info rather easily! Including the hidden players with most star upside potential.

As with most anything, you get out what you put in! It takes time (investment) to do your "due diligence" and then these front offices need to match archetype, personality fit, and skillset/ abilities of those prospects to the needs of the team. If they can commit themselves to doing that, then they'll be very successful in the draft ( given their resources) much more than not!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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What’s wild is Giannis is more of the face of the Bucks than Booker is to the Suns and the bucks ain’t gonna hesitate to trade Giannis. They know trading Giannis is the only realistic way to rebuild.

Not to mention there isn’t a single GM who would take Booker over Giannis.

This is the glaringly obvious difference between franchise's that are faux championship contenders and those are are always just a tier or two below and very mid overall. Clinging to specific player's out of fear that they'll never get anything equivalent or better because lesser teams/ franchises' struggle and carry this poverty/ defeatist mentality making them too scared to take risks.

Then the causality of this is someone like Ishbia coming in and trying to be splashy and flaunt his wealth to the extreme and then recklessly/ negligently overpaying to try and be a big shot savior of the franchise.

Now we're even further away than before because our narcissistic compulsive new owner mortgaged everything and left us with no future. Basically our franchise is clinging to Booker like some sort of life raft for our franchise. But really he's a life raft with holes that's slowly sinking with sharks swimming around.

As suns fans we so rarely experience anything good. So we'll just keep clinging to whatever we have ignoring the long term consequences.

[BobbieL]

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Suns could have got Poole and that 2030 FRP with protections for CP3 if they wanted value for Chris Paul as an expiring contract --

and with the new CBA - his contract would have been much better.

Ishiba is a super genius

[Slim Charless]

...which Giannis would understand going in. If he picks us, it's with the expectation that he's playing with Durant, not Booker.

The Suns would not be able to get Giannis without trading BOTH Durant and Booker
Booker is not close to Giannis and they don't have the draft picks to make it a fair deal. Hence, they would have to give up EVERTHING in a Durant deal

The Suns should avoid a Giannis deal and focus on building around Devin Booker.

And if you traded both of them.. what'd be the point? Having just Giannis here improves next to nothing.

1st. I don't think we'll do it, nor do I think we're on his list.......but IF we are. Then Booker and Dunn is a great return for them. Unless Amen, Sengun, Eason and all of our picks from Houston. Any other team has to gut themselves for him.

Miami-has to send out Bam and Herro. No
Lakers-have to send out Luka
NYK- KAT and Bridges. Maybe, I guess
Philly- Maxey and PG13. No

I think that it all depends on the lotto. I also think he wants a larger market so I don't really think SAS is there.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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[SkyBill40]

The Suns would not be able to get Giannis without trading BOTH Durant and Booker
Booker is not close to Giannis and they don't have the draft picks to make it a fair deal. Hence, they would have to give up EVERTHING in a Durant deal

The Suns should avoid a Giannis deal and focus on building around Devin Booker.

And if you traded both of them.. what'd be the point? Having just Giannis here improves next to nothing.

1st. I don't think we'll do it, nor do I think we're on his list.......but IF we are. Then Booker and Dunn is a great return for them. Unless Amen, Sengun, Eason and all of our picks from Houston. Any other team has to gut themselves for him.

Miami-has to send out Bam and Herro. No
Lakers-have to send out Luka
NYK- KAT and Bridges. Maybe, I guess
Philly- Maxey and PG13. No

I think that it all depends on the lotto. I also think he wants a larger market so I don't really think SAS is there.

Booker would be the key driver in that coming to fruition and I still don't see them moving him. Even still, we'd have to get below the second apron just to toy with the idea. That means moving off Durant and Beal, and I don't see the latter giving up his stance no matter how disillusioned the fans are with his play and lack of availability.

I don't see any of the aforementioned teams sending their players out for him, especially LA, but you never know. No one ever expected Doncic to be moved and yet here we are.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Thank goodness Giannis prefers to stay with the Bucks! Because these trades are just incredibly lousy value for the Bucks with really only the Houston trade being remotely close to something they'd likely consider.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[BobbieL]

The Suns would not be able to get Giannis without trading BOTH Durant and Booker
Booker is not close to Giannis and they don't have the draft picks to make it a fair deal. Hence, they would have to give up EVERTHING in a Durant deal

The Suns should avoid a Giannis deal and focus on building around Devin Booker.

And if you traded both of them.. what'd be the point? Having just Giannis here improves next to nothing.

1st. I don't think we'll do it, nor do I think we're on his list.......but IF we are. Then Booker and Dunn is a great return for them. Unless Amen, Sengun, Eason and all of our picks from Houston. Any other team has to gut themselves for him.

Miami-has to send out Bam and Herro. No
Lakers-have to send out Luka
NYK- KAT and Bridges. Maybe, I guess
Philly- Maxey and PG13. No

I think that it all depends on the lotto. I also think he wants a larger market so I don't really think SAS is there.

Spurs and Rockets have much better returns. Even the Nets have the potential for more upside
You are correct about Miami, NYK and Philly for Giannis

I hope Ishbia stays away from anything that sounds too good to be true and would create buzz but not produce a team on a path to a title

[Slim Charless]

And if you traded both of them.. what'd be the point? Having just Giannis here improves next to nothing.

1st. I don't think we'll do it, nor do I think we're on his list.......but IF we are. Then Booker and Dunn is a great return for them. Unless Amen, Sengun, Eason and all of our picks from Houston. Any other team has to gut themselves for him.

Miami-has to send out Bam and Herro. No
Lakers-have to send out Luka
NYK- KAT and Bridges. Maybe, I guess
Philly- Maxey and PG13. No

I think that it all depends on the lotto. I also think he wants a larger market so I don't really think SAS is there.

Booker would be the key driver in that coming to fruition and I still don't see them moving him. Even still, we'd have to get below the second apron just to toy with the idea. That means moving off Durant and Beal, and I don't see the latter giving up his stance no matter how disillusioned the fans are with his play and lack of availability.

I don't see any of the aforementioned teams sending their players out for him, especially LA, but you never know. No one ever expected Doncic to be moved and yet here we are.

I think we get under the same apron by waiving those 2 guys we got from CHA, that's why we did the deal.

[BobbieL]

1st. I don't think we'll do it, nor do I think we're on his list.......but IF we are. Then Booker and Dunn is a great return for them. Unless Amen, Sengun, Eason and all of our picks from Houston. Any other team has to gut themselves for him.

Miami-has to send out Bam and Herro. No
Lakers-have to send out Luka
NYK- KAT and Bridges. Maybe, I guess
Philly- Maxey and PG13. No

I think that it all depends on the lotto. I also think he wants a larger market so I don't really think SAS is there.

Booker would be the key driver in that coming to fruition and I still don't see them moving him. Even still, we'd have to get below the second apron just to toy with the idea. That means moving off Durant and Beal, and I don't see the latter giving up his stance no matter how disillusioned the fans are with his play and lack of availability.

I don't see any of the aforementioned teams sending their players out for him, especially LA, but you never know. No one ever expected Doncic to be moved and yet here we are.

I think we get under the same apron by waiving those 2 guys we got from CHA, that's why we did the deal.

That won't be enough to get under the second apron from what I understand - still about 6-8m short. Which if that report is true, that is what they should be trying to do with Beal. If it is truly say 7.5m to get under the apron - buy him out for $95m - if he would accept it - get under the second apron, don't stretch him, be done with him.

So I want to ask Mat Ishbia - if the Bucks could consider trading "the face of the franchise, why aren't you?"

[SkyBill40]

Booker would be the key driver in that coming to fruition and I still don't see them moving him. Even still, we'd have to get below the second apron just to toy with the idea. That means moving off Durant and Beal, and I don't see the latter giving up his stance no matter how disillusioned the fans are with his play and lack of availability.

I don't see any of the aforementioned teams sending their players out for him, especially LA, but you never know. No one ever expected Doncic to be moved and yet here we are.

I think we get under the same apron by waiving those 2 guys we got from CHA, that's why we did the deal.

That won't be enough to get under the second apron from what I understand - still about 6-8m short. Which if that report is true, that is what they should be trying to do with Beal. If it is truly say 7.5m to get under the apron - buy him out for $95m - if he would accept it - get under the second apron, don't stretch him, be done with him.

So I want to ask Mat Ishbia - if the Bucks could consider trading "the face of the franchise, why aren't you?"

Pretty sure even if he accepted a buyout, which I don't think he will, there's going to be some dead cap for us that'll count against. It's bad enough that his agent's son is the CEO of the team.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Oh Fiddlefaddle!!!

[Ghost of Kleine]

I think we get under the same apron by waiving those 2 guys we got from CHA, that's why we did the deal.

That won't be enough to get under the second apron from what I understand - still about 6-8m short. Which if that report is true, that is what they should be trying to do with Beal. If it is truly say 7.5m to get under the apron - buy him out for $95m - if he would accept it - get under the second apron, don't stretch him, be done with him.

So I want to ask Mat Ishbia - if the Bucks could consider trading "the face of the franchise, why aren't you?"

Pretty sure even if he accepted a buyout, which I don't think he will, there's going to be some dead cap for us that'll count against. It's bad enough that his agent's son is the CEO of the team.

Beal's not gonna give up 30 million for a buyout and even if by some miracle, he can be convinced into doing that, we'd at best be stuck with23- 25 million (dead cap) on our books for the next 5 years.

[SkyBill40]

That won't be enough to get under the second apron from what I understand - still about 6-8m short. Which if that report is true, that is what they should be trying to do with Beal. If it is truly say 7.5m to get under the apron - buy him out for $95m - if he would accept it - get under the second apron, don't stretch him, be done with him.

So I want to ask Mat Ishbia - if the Bucks could consider trading "the face of the franchise, why aren't you?"

Pretty sure even if he accepted a buyout, which I don't think he will, there's going to be some dead cap for us that'll count against. It's bad enough that his agent's son is the CEO of the team.

Beal's not gonna give up 30 million for a buyout and even if by some miracle, he can be convinced into doing that, we'd at best be stuck with23- 25 million (dead cap) on our books for the next 5 years.

That much money in dead space is a decent mid-level guy. As much as I dislike the Beal acquisition and understand the want for him to be sent elsewhere, doing so in that manner in more punitive than just letting his final two years play out.