The One And Only Offseason Thread!

[JMac1]

In the last Bob Young's report he speaks about Goodwin and he said this sentence too...

The Suns need another weapon in their rotation, and it's looking more and more like there won't be any blockbuster offseason moves. Improvement might have to come from within.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /12443941/

Bledsoe/Ennis/Ish
Dragic/Green/Goodwin
P.J./T.J.
Markieff/Marcus
Plumlee/Len

That is a12 deep team...we can add a veteran cheap FA to play some PF/C and that is all.
It is not the best offseason in the world, but we have players with upside at least.

It is a good offseason. We didn't have to over-pay for an average/just above average player. We have a roster that will allow our 5 1st round picks to "grow from within." What happens if Goodwin does beast it next year and he makes Goran or Bledsoe expendable? What happens if Len shows he will be better than Monroe? What happens if Warren is better than PJ? Ennis is better than Ish..... What if Brown grows within two years and becomes a better rebounding Frye? What if Bledsoe and Dragic proves you can keep both of them by leading the same team to the playoffs?


Let the guys play it out for one more year, even if we miss the playoffs, it is better than overpaying role guys and missing the playoffs! Let this team answer these questions. No matter the outcome it will be fun watching. And I would love watching the entire game no matter who is in, because I want to see EVERYONE play!

[BIGSUN]

I love Keef, and I think he can be a great starting 3/4 in this league. But we need an upgrade at the 4 more than anything IMO.

Like Pau would be perfect. But seems highly unlikely at this point. I'm also a fan of Deng. But not sure at $12mill a year. Not sure he's worth double what PJ will probably make. He can definitely score more. But I think we have plenty of guys who can score. Especially our backcourt.


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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

As I've mentioned Tucker is not likely. The market is too rich for him at this point. I know a team that contacted his agent two days ago and was way under the value he's been getting offers for; so they proceeded with another option. If the Suns keep Tucker we're paying more than he is worth.

Also, trade talks with the Pacers has not progressed. I doubt it happens. We'll see. The Pacers are exploring other options.

We have been more active trying to make trades.

Dragic is our most sought after piece. Tucker second. Bledsoe third (because teams with space can and will offer him a fat contract).

On the bright side Bledsoe is happy to wait and hold off for the Suns organization. I think highly we keep Bledsoe.

If we decide to let Tucker go, we're essentially tanking. No way we make the playoffs with this roster after losing Tucker and Frye. I think Goodwin in particular will be much better for us this year, but he can't make up for those losses...... I'm not against that plan. I worry that the Lakers pick will be lower than #5, but we'll have a good shot at it, and our own should be in the lotto. I highly doubt Minnesota will be better than 12 since they'll have to let Love go at some point this season. But this upcoming draft is PF heavy. Positioning ourselves to be players in it isn't the worst idea.

I think Goodwin will make Goran expendable, which is why I've been probably the biggest proponent of trading him on this board. Any idea what we could reasonably get for him? Any idea what we're looking for?

One more thing. Looking at that roster, it's pretty clear we're going to have to get a lot of scoring from Markieff. He could average 17-18 for us this season, maybe more if we play him huge minutes. Wonder what that does to his market value? He and Marcus become RFAs, which gives us a ton of leverage, fwiw.

[NaturalBuns]

I love Keef, and I think he can be a great starting 3/4 in this league. But we need an upgrade at the 4 more than anything IMO.

Like Pau would be perfect. But seems highly unlikely at this point. I'm also a fan of Deng. But not sure at $12mill a year. Not sure he's worth double what PJ will probably make. He can definitely score more. But I think we have plenty of guys who can score. Especially our backcourt.


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You really think we need a upgrade at the 4 over the 5?
Markieff puts up numbers. Plumlee is average at best definitely not as skilled as markieff and Len has proved nothing.

[bwgood77]

As I've mentioned Tucker is not likely. The market is too rich for him at this point. I know a team that contacted his agent two days ago and was way under the value he's been getting offers for; so they proceeded with another option. If the Suns keep Tucker we're paying more than he is worth.

Also, trade talks with the Pacers has not progressed. I doubt it happens. We'll see. The Pacers are exploring other options.

We have been more active trying to make trades.

Dragic is our most sought after piece. Tucker second. Bledsoe third (because teams with space can and will offer him a fat contract).

On the bright side Bledsoe is happy to wait and hold off for the Suns organization. I think highly we keep Bledsoe.

I think we should just keep all these guys. For Tucker it obviously depends on the money, and I wonder if a team would give up anything at all for Tucker in a S&T? Obviously not much if they would, but I guess something is better than nothing, even a 2nd round pick.

I can't see a deal with Dragic making us better though. Giving up something major when he can opt out in a year and go elsewhere would be too risky to give up too much.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I think we should just keep all these guys. For Tucker it obviously depends on the money, and I wonder if a team would give up anything at all for Tucker in a S&T? Obviously not much if they would, but I guess something is better than nothing, even a 2nd round pick.

I can't see a deal with Dragic making us better though. Giving up something major when he can opt out in a year and go elsewhere would be too risky to give up too much.

There are two things we could get for Tucker - a 2nd rounder, or an actual contract. The first scenario would just be if a team wanted to make sure we don't match. The second would be if a team over the cap wants to offer more than the MLE - maybe we take a real player back on a shorter deal, or maybe a 1-year contract with a 2nd attached. No way we get a 1st

You make a really good point about Dragic. Our best option may be to keep him for marketing and leadership purposes, but I think his value declines this year somewhat, and I think Goodwin will show himself to be our 2 of the future. So we're in a strange spot with him. But we may not have many options.

[bwgood77]

As I've mentioned Tucker is not likely. The market is too rich for him at this point. I know a team that contacted his agent two days ago and was way under the value he's been getting offers for; so they proceeded with another option. If the Suns keep Tucker we're paying more than he is worth.

Also, trade talks with the Pacers has not progressed. I doubt it happens. We'll see. The Pacers are exploring other options.

We have been more active trying to make trades.

Dragic is our most sought after piece. Tucker second. Bledsoe third (because teams with space can and will offer him a fat contract).

On the bright side Bledsoe is happy to wait and hold off for the Suns organization. I think highly we keep Bledsoe.

If we decide to let Tucker go, we're essentially tanking. No way we make the playoffs with this roster after losing Tucker and Frye. I think Goodwin in particular will be much better for us this year, but he can't make up for those losses...... I'm not against that plan. I worry that the Lakers pick will be lower than #5, but we'll have a good shot at it, and our own should be in the lotto. I highly doubt Minnesota will be better than 12 since they'll have to let Love go at some point this season. But this upcoming draft is PF heavy. Positioning ourselves to be players in it isn't the worst idea.

I think Goodwin will make Goran expendable, which is why I've been probably the biggest proponent of trading him on this board. Any idea what we could reasonably get for him? Any idea what we're looking for?

One more thing. Looking at that roster, it's pretty clear we're going to have to get a lot of scoring from Markieff. He could average 17-18 for us this season, maybe more if we play him huge minutes. Wonder what that does to his market value? He and Marcus become RFAs, which gives us a ton of leverage, fwiw.

I wouldn't say "Tanking" if we lose Frye and Tucker. That's a bit ridiculous. I am really high on Goodwin too, but I think you may underestimate how much work and experience it would take for Goodwin to have the impact that Dragic does. Dragic has taken years to develop his game by learning from some of the best. Goodwin may have more raw talent, and I'm excited to see him get better. But if we DO trade Goran to let Goodwin play, THEN you could more or less (depending on your definition) say we were tanking, and I don't mean intentionally losing games, but going younger knowing you almost certainly won't be as good now but think it will make you better for the future.

Problem is, I don't think Dragic gets us back enough in a deal to make it worthwhile since he is expiring. But given his low salary, there may be a ton of teams without much for assets trying to get him if they don't care as much for the future AND especially if they have no cap space next summer.

Also, teams way over the cap (like Brooklyn) and no cap space next summer may give up more for him because they wouldn't have cap space next summer anyway, but if they get his bird rights, they would probably have no problem paying him his max next summer to keep him, since they don't care about the tax anyway. But some of these teams, like Brooklyn, are short on assets to make such a trade.

[AtheJ415]

If Scola can net you a first and a rookie deal like Plumlee (won't include Green because he was a negative at the time of the trade), Asik's at $15 million followed by UFA can net you a lotto pick, then Tucker at just above the MLE can get you a first. I wouldn't be happy if my team gave up a first for a guy like Tucker, but he's a great piece to have for a contender and crazier things have happened. Plus there are other ways to net a first (Tucker plus a 2nd for another team's first). I wouldn't say it's that out of the question.

I think we should just keep all these guys. For Tucker it obviously depends on the money, and I wonder if a team would give up anything at all for Tucker in a S&T? Obviously not much if they would, but I guess something is better than nothing, even a 2nd round pick.

I can't see a deal with Dragic making us better though. Giving up something major when he can opt out in a year and go elsewhere would be too risky to give up too much.

There are two things we could get for Tucker - a 2nd rounder, or an actual contract. The first scenario would just be if a team wanted to make sure we don't match. The second would be if a team over the cap wants to offer more than the MLE - maybe we take a real player back on a shorter deal, or maybe a 1-year contract with a 2nd attached. No way we get a 1st

You make a really good point about Dragic. Our best option may be to keep him for marketing and leadership purposes, but I think his value declines this year somewhat, and I think Goodwin will show himself to be our 2 of the future. So we're in a strange spot with him. But we may not have many options.

[bwgood77]

I think we should just keep all these guys. For Tucker it obviously depends on the money, and I wonder if a team would give up anything at all for Tucker in a S&T? Obviously not much if they would, but I guess something is better than nothing, even a 2nd round pick.

I can't see a deal with Dragic making us better though. Giving up something major when he can opt out in a year and go elsewhere would be too risky to give up too much.

There are two things we could get for Tucker - a 2nd rounder, or an actual contract. The first scenario would just be if a team wanted to make sure we don't match. The second would be if a team over the cap wants to offer more than the MLE - maybe we take a real player back on a shorter deal, or maybe a 1-year contract with a 2nd attached. No way we get a 1st

You make a really good point about Dragic. Our best option may be to keep him for marketing and leadership purposes, but I think his value declines this year somewhat, and I think Goodwin will show himself to be our 2 of the future. So we're in a strange spot with him. But we may not have many options.

Another thing to remember, if we lock up Dragic to a big deal next summer, he probably has MUCH more trade value than he does now, because he is locked up for a few years. Then we could keep the phone open for Bledsoe AND Dragic (to see if a huge deal comes our way) and teams would know they would have these guys for at least three years.

Two years from now when the luxury tax level is getting close to $90 million, and the cap is likely above $70, and maybe significantly above it if they get a new tv deal, those contracts won't look terrible, even if they were both making $15-$17 a year.

[bwgood77]

If Scola can net you a first and a rookie deal like Plumlee (won't include Green because he was a negative at the time of the trade), Asik's at $15 million followed by UFA can net you a lotto pick, then Tucker at just above the MLE can get you a first. I wouldn't be happy if my team gave up a first for a guy like Tucker, but he's a great piece to have for a contender and crazier things have happened. Plus there are other ways to net a first (Tucker plus a 2nd for another team's first). I wouldn't say it's that out of the question.

I think the only way this is remotely possible is if a team is giving you a crap contract back and a low first.

[King4Day]

The problem with signing Tucker for a long term expensive deal is, we are basically saying, 'this will be our team of the future that we plan on winning a title with'. It's not realistic.
Maybe we're better off just matching whatever a team offers him and then just trade him later. But if it's more than the MLE we will need to think long and hard about it. Don't want it to become a bad contract that's unmovable.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I wouldn't say "Tanking" if we lose Frye and Tucker. That's a bit ridiculous.

I think we're talking about a matter of degree. I don't mean to evoke the negative connotation. I just think we'll lose more games than last year as a result of making decisions that are more forward-looking. We're not trying to lose games, but we're not overly concerned with winning as many as possible at all costs.

I am really high on Goodwin too, but I think you may underestimate how much work and experience it would take for Goodwin to have the impact that Dragic does. Dragic has taken years to develop his game by learning from some of the best. Goodwin may have more raw talent, and I'm excited to see him get better. But if we DO trade Goran to let Goodwin play, THEN you could more or less (depending on your definition) say we were tanking, and I don't mean intentionally losing games, but going younger knowing you almost certainly won't be as good now but think it will make you better for the future.

Nah, I don't think we'd start Goodwin even if we traded Dragic (Green would start at the 2). And I don't think there's any way he'll be as good as Dragic this year. I think he'll average close to 20 MPG, playing a significant role off the bench. I don't know who we'll start at 3, but either Green or Morris will come off the bench before Archie if we don't add anyone, and Len may get more minutes than Archie as well (though I think he's further away from being an above-average player).

Problem is, I don't think Dragic gets us back enough in a deal to make it worthwhile since he is expiring. But given his low salary, there may be a ton of teams without much for assets trying to get him if they don't care as much for the future AND especially if they have no cap space next summer.

Also, teams way over the cap (like Brooklyn) and no cap space next summer may give up more for him because they wouldn't have cap space next summer anyway, but if they get his bird rights, they would probably have no problem paying him his max next summer to keep him, since they don't care about the tax anyway. But some of these teams, like Brooklyn, are short on assets to make such a trade.

You make a good point about teams over the cap possibly being willing to give up more to get him. I don't think Markieff is our 4 of the future because of his lack of size, which is why I'd love to keep grabbing more first rounders to try to be in position to pick up one more big piece in the draft. But it's basically impossible to get picks with protection these days. So I doubt the assets are out there to make a trade make sense for us. I think we keep him, and we stay competitive, but are ultimately on the outside looking in this season.

[NaturalBuns]

The problem with signing Tucker for a long term expensive deal is, we are basically saying, 'this will be our team of the future that we plan on winning a title with'. It's not realistic.
Maybe we're better off just matching whatever a team offers him and then just trade him later. But if it's more than the MLE we will need to think long and hard about it. Don't want it to become a bad contract that's unmovable.

Agree but you gotta think dragic is 27-28.
If suns do miss playoffs he could walk the biggest markets have money to blow next year.
Maybe that's why we are linking him to trades

[aIvin adams]

Apologies if this has already been posted:

Mark Deeks ‏@MarkDeeksNBA
Suns and Bogdan Bogdanovic have agreed in writing that he will not join this season, therefore his cap hold for the 2015 season is expunged.

[AtheJ415]

Contenders are typically looking for rotation players with their late 1sts. Tucker is a guaranteed rotation player that they would be able to get a year early. These types of trades happen all the time. Obviously his contract will have a lot to do with any team's willingness to do it, but it happens quite frequently. For instance, Scola, who was a fringe starter much older than Tucker, netted a first with Green being the only argument for a bad contract, but Plumlee was arguably the compensation for that "bad" contract.

If Scola can net you a first and a rookie deal like Plumlee (won't include Green because he was a negative at the time of the trade), Asik's at $15 million followed by UFA can net you a lotto pick, then Tucker at just above the MLE can get you a first. I wouldn't be happy if my team gave up a first for a guy like Tucker, but he's a great piece to have for a contender and crazier things have happened. Plus there are other ways to net a first (Tucker plus a 2nd for another team's first). I wouldn't say it's that out of the question.

I think the only way this is remotely possible is if a team is giving you a crap contract back and a low first.

[jcsunsfan]

I'd sign Pau to a 3 year deal, 12mil per, but the last season is a team option so we can give him the boot if Len develops quickly over that time span.
I wouldn't be upset at this roster
Dragic/Bledsoe/Green/Pau/Len
Ennis/Archie/Warren/Kieff/Plumlee

Move Len to the starting unit so we have just a little more experience on the bench with Plumlee. Maybe go after Jerryd Bayless or Jimmer Fredette, someone with a little higher potential who perhaps wasn't being utilized correctly, and who can score off the bench. (Is Fredette even a free agent?) What about Evan Turner, did he already get signed?

Sign him for 15 for 1 year. He gets paid and we keep our flexibility.

[NaturalBuns]

if PJ does become super expensive lets push hard for Marion.
Just pay him what he would make on a 2 year deal with a one year contract that way he has incentive to take it cash out and still renew another contract before he retires.

[lazyboy62]

A lot of people are saying stay the course. I'd like that, but with a cavate. We have room to work this season. Throw an offer to Houstin for Jones and Motiejunas. Say a second rounder or two. These guys are almost desperate to dump players for Bosh. Make a call to Chicago and try to get into the Love trade. Throw them a first or the Mo-bros for Taj and Snell or whatever they need for Love. I could see us upgrading AND getting younger. Taj is only 29 and is a double double machine as a bench player behiend Boozer. We have assets that we can use to upgrade and stay the course plus the cap room to take a contract or two for players.

[aIvin adams]

if PJ does become super expensive lets push hard for Marion.
Just pay him what he would make on a 2 year deal with a one year contract that way he has incentive to take it cash out and still renew another contract before he retires.

Matrix <3 my first favorite player whose draft day I remember. My first jersey. If he returned to the Suns I'd be tickled

[King4Day]

Apologies if this has already been posted:

Mark Deeks ‏@MarkDeeksNBA
Suns and Bogdan Bogdanovic have agreed in writing that he will not join this season, therefore his cap hold for the 2015 season is expunged.

It was but these pages go so fast that it's easy for people to miss.

Not surprising news but glad they got that behind them already. Worry about him in 2 years. Hopefully people will talk about him the way they talk about that Mirotic guy from Chicago.