Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

[Book1Nation]

Apparently Gambo today said that Len prefers to be somewhere else next year. Can anyone confirm he said this and elaborate as to whether Gambo is just speculating or actually hearing whispers from Len's camp.

He gone...

[AtheJ415]

Horrible logic. They nailed more of their picks because they were picking higher where the odds of nailing your picks are much higher. That is the importance of tanking. Everyone who says it doesn't matter where you finish because you can still get great players late is full of it. Getting Booker and Warren at their draft positions is drastically more impressive than grabbing Simmons and Embiid at the top of their respective drafts.

Also, have you noticed the players who have demanded trades are 2 charged felons and then a bunch of players who demanded new contracts at huge amounts and then wanted the trades after getting rejected on those demands?

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[AtheJ415]

There is plenty of ways to finish behind Dallas, Brooklyn, and Sac. Maybe even Atl once our schedule balances out. We have played one of the easiest schedules so far. Our schedule is going to be infinitely tougher than all of those teams down the stretch. Losing does not mean there is no development. Individual players need to develop, and that can happen despite losses, as it has with Booker.

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[bwgood77]

We're looking at this all wrong. Memphis, Clippers and Kings should finish below us. Only 7 teams in the west with a .500 record. We can sneak in if we get our **** together. That should be the aim.

... I'm also not nearly as impressed with this draft class as some seem to be. I like Bagley and Doncic rn, I'm not convinced that the best PG won't be selected outside the lotto, and there are promising bigs in the late lotto as well. I think we'd be better off building some momentum with a strong season.

I'm sure a lot of people would like to make the playoffs, but the best predictor of final record based on history is point differential and we have the third worst in the league and have played one of the easiest schedules.

If I thought there was a glimmer of hope for us to make the playoffs I'd be pulling for it. But it's just not in the cards and such raised expectations will just leave people more disappointed in the end. Having momentum and getting the best player in the draft late lotto or after is a nice thought, but highly improbable to say the least.

But you also have to admit/realize, we lost our first game by 50, which highly skews that number, but yes, the fact that we've played a rather easy schedule does portend difficult times ahead.

Yeah, but other teams get blown out too, so no one is throwing them out for this purpose. It's not just the first game (which Portland played their 3rd stringers in the 4th or it would have been worse), but two of our first three, then we got killed by Houston (gave up 90 in a half) and the Pelicans (were down by 30 at the half and Cousins/Davis rested the 4th). Many of these games we would have lost worse had they not rested people in second half.

Even with a PG I don't see a shot at any sort of playoff seed. Lets see what our record looks like after the next 9 games. If we could somehow win like 5 of those games, I might change my tune, but we might be hard pressed to win a couple of them. The Kings look like the only one we should win on paper.

[DRK]

The thing that scares me about Len is that it took us to not extend his contract for him to actually step up and play like his career depended on it (Which it does). The rest of the years he's been with us, he's just been kinda ho-hum and really under preformed.

And even with his step up in play, he still makes a lot of stupid mistakes. For a Center he makes a loooooooow percentage of his shots. Now i am loving his rebounding and defensive effort, but if he lands a new contract with us, will he revert back to the same old Len, or stay the guy with increased play once he had a fire lit under his ass. Thats the real question.

Or maybe it took the firing of "player developement". (And later) "Head Coach" Earl Watson for Len to finally understand the role he needs to play to be successful?

[King4Day]

There is plenty of ways to finish behind Dallas, Brooklyn, and Sac. Maybe even Atl once our schedule balances out. We have played one of the easiest schedules so far. Our schedule is going to be infinitely tougher than all of those teams down the stretch. Losing does not mean there is no development. Individual players need to develop, and that can happen despite losses, as it has with Booker.

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Dallas is the only team I think could get hot. The others have no talent. Brooklyn lost Lin and Russel. Sacramento is more raw than we are with less star power. Atlanta? Maybe because they are in the East.
The Clippers will catch up until Griffin returns. And by then, they might decide to just crash the season and get a high pick (so they won't let him return if that's the case).

You can grow while losing but not learning how to win is dangerous.
Sure, Embiid and Simmons were higher picks, but when we compare our higher picks, they aren't very impressive. Bender, Len, and (so far) Jackson. Chriss to a lesser extent considering where we picked him. You'd like to think one of these guys will hit but so far, only Bender and Jackson have the most hope but neither has had that game yet where you say 'THAT'S the guy we drafted.

I'm hoping swapping coaches and getting improved player dev from Triano will be enough to turn the corner for some of these guys.

[AtheJ415]

There is plenty of ways to finish behind Dallas, Brooklyn, and Sac. Maybe even Atl once our schedule balances out. We have played one of the easiest schedules so far. Our schedule is going to be infinitely tougher than all of those teams down the stretch. Losing does not mean there is no development. Individual players need to develop, and that can happen despite losses, as it has with Booker.

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Dallas is the only team I think could get hot. The others have no talent. Brooklyn lost Lin and Russel. Sacramento is more raw than we are with less star power. Atlanta? Maybe because they are in the East.
The Clippers will catch up until Griffin returns. And by then, they might decide to just crash the season and get a high pick (so they won't let him return if that's the case).

You can grow while losing but not learning how to win is dangerous.
Sure, Embiid and Simmons were higher picks, but when we compare our higher picks, they aren't very impressive. Bender, Len, and (so far) Jackson. Chriss to a lesser extent considering where we picked him. You'd like to think one of these guys will hit but so far, only Bender and Jackson have the most hope but neither has had that game yet where you say 'THAT'S the guy we drafted.

I'm hoping swapping coaches and getting improved player dev from Triano will be enough to turn the corner for some of these guys.

This ignores the actual draft classes and quality of those higher picks, and there is a big difference in most drafts between pick 1 and the rest. Simmons is way better than everyone else in the draft. Embiid was in a loaded draft and would have been pick 1 if not for injury. Expecting our top picks like Bender, who was a long term project big man and the youngest player in the NBA, to be close to as impressive as the 76ers top picks, is just crazy.

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[King4Day]

There is plenty of ways to finish behind Dallas, Brooklyn, and Sac. Maybe even Atl once our schedule balances out. We have played one of the easiest schedules so far. Our schedule is going to be infinitely tougher than all of those teams down the stretch. Losing does not mean there is no development. Individual players need to develop, and that can happen despite losses, as it has with Booker.

Sent from my SM-G935T using RealGM Forums mobile app

Dallas is the only team I think could get hot. The others have no talent. Brooklyn lost Lin and Russel. Sacramento is more raw than we are with less star power. Atlanta? Maybe because they are in the East.
The Clippers will catch up until Griffin returns. And by then, they might decide to just crash the season and get a high pick (so they won't let him return if that's the case).

You can grow while losing but not learning how to win is dangerous.
Sure, Embiid and Simmons were higher picks, but when we compare our higher picks, they aren't very impressive. Bender, Len, and (so far) Jackson. Chriss to a lesser extent considering where we picked him. You'd like to think one of these guys will hit but so far, only Bender and Jackson have the most hope but neither has had that game yet where you say 'THAT'S the guy we drafted.

I'm hoping swapping coaches and getting improved player dev from Triano will be enough to turn the corner for some of these guys.

This ignores the actual draft classes and quality of those higher picks, and there is a big difference in most drafts between pick 1 and the rest. Simmons is way better than everyone else in the draft. Embiid was in a loaded draft and would have been pick 1 if not for injury. Expecting our top picks like Bender, who was a long term project big man and the youngest player in the NBA, to be close to as impressive as the 76ers top picks, is just crazy.

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I think that's the point though. Last year was a loaded draft and not many high picks are performing well.
The chances of landing the top pick or drafting a guy who becomes an anchor to the team is very small.

What would we do if we landed the #1 pick, drafted Bagley, and he was a total bust? It sets us back more years. I can't believe I'm saying this because I've be extremely anti-competing for a while now but I just worry about waiting for these young guys to become players who will lure big names to Phoenix since there's no guarantee they will be special.
Getting players like Jordan, relatively cheaply of course (the way the Bucks got Bledsoe from us), can help bridge the gap. We can worry about the fit of rookies at another time.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I hate the notion that since the suns haven't hit on a top pick that they shouldn't care if they have more high picks. Such a defeatist way of thinking. How about they do a better job and pick the right **** player this time.

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[King4Day]

I think what's been bothering me this year is the lack of improvement from some of the guys.
Chriss was very promising last season and took a step back. I don't know if it's because teams have him scouted better or what.
Ulis too.

Going into the year, I really felt like we had the talent to compete for 30+ wins.

[King4Day]

I hate the notion that since the suns haven't hit on a top pick that they shouldn't care if they have more high picks. Such a defeatist way of thinking. How about they do a better job and pick the right **** player this time.

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It's not that they shouldn't care. It's that more teams are worse than us. There are no players to sit in hopes of getting a higher pick outside of Chandler and Dudley. If we get a high pick, it's because we aren't winning games with the kids we have. Sure, it's growing pains, but getting blown out by 20+ points multiple times doesn't display team growth.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I hate the notion that since the suns haven't hit on a top pick that they shouldn't care if they have more high picks. Such a defeatist way of thinking. How about they do a better job and pick the right **** player this time.

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It's not that they shouldn't care. It's that more teams are worse than us. There are no players to sit in hopes of getting a higher pick outside of Chandler and Dudley. If we get a high pick, it's because we aren't winning games with the kids we have. Sure, it's growing pains, but getting blown out by 20+ points multiple times doesn't display team growth.

I agree that the growth aspect is concerning. Not that I'm writing these guys off or that PER is some perfect stat but it's pretty damn horrible that the 4 draft picks (Bender, Chriss, Ulis, and Jackson) from the last two years who actually get minutes right now all have under a 10 PER.... that's not good at all.

That's why I've been an advocate of firing McD. Let's face the facts he's been here for 5 years and the Suns have a grand total of 2 guys in Warren and Booker who look like sure fire long term rotation players for this team. And that's not just counting draft picks where his record is mixed at best but that's including trades and FA. To me it's simply not good enough.

[King4Day]

I hate the notion that since the suns haven't hit on a top pick that they shouldn't care if they have more high picks. Such a defeatist way of thinking. How about they do a better job and pick the right **** player this time.

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It's not that they shouldn't care. It's that more teams are worse than us. There are no players to sit in hopes of getting a higher pick outside of Chandler and Dudley. If we get a high pick, it's because we aren't winning games with the kids we have. Sure, it's growing pains, but getting blown out by 20+ points multiple times doesn't display team growth.

I agree that the growth aspect is concerning. Not that I'm writing these guys off or that PER is some perfect stat but it's pretty damn horrible that the 4 draft picks (Bender, Chriss, Ulis, and Jackson) from the last two years who actually get minutes right now all have under a 10 PER.... that's not good at all.

That's why I've been an advocate of firing McD. Let's face the facts he's been here for 5 years and the Suns have a grand total of 2 guys in Warren and Booker who look like sure fire long term rotation players for this team. And that's not just counting draft picks where his record is mixed at best but that's including trades and FA. To me it's simply not good enough.

Agreed. I was a huge McD defender, but his overall picture isn't pretty. I have a feeling James Jones will take his place soon.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Without Blake, they are in the tank battle. They only have one more win than us and will be awful. Tougher to have a worst 5 record now.

We're looking at this all wrong. Memphis, Clippers and Kings should finish below us. Only 7 teams in the west with a .500 record. We can sneak in if we get our **** together. That should be the aim.

... I'm also not nearly as impressed with this draft class as some seem to be. I like Bagley and Doncic rn, I'm not convinced that the best PG won't be selected outside the lotto, and there are promising bigs in the late lotto as well. I think we'd be better off building some momentum with a strong season.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but without a PG (basically, barring a sudden influx of talent to Ulis/James), we aren't going anywhere.

I'm all for 'going for the win', but McD needs to act on 14 Dec...like, immediately and get us a PG somehow. If that were to happen...AND we rid ourselves of Chandler in the process while keeping Monroe (or be willing to start Len), then I think we have a strong chance to compete for that 7 or 8 seed, so long as Warren and Booker stay healthy.

Basically, we need to shore up our 1 and 5 positions. And again, Len played 30 minutes last night (and no, I don't know how he looked), but he posted a nice 13/18 game with no PFs (no Blks, either, though), but point is, when Len gets 25+ minutes, good things typically happen. However, I understand that often he doesn't GET 25 minutes because he's playing like a$$ and he's pulled before he can get his 25 minutes, but I would still start him over Chandler. Get him a decent PG, and yes, his game will improve also.

I don't know if any roster upgrades will be of much help at this point. Our roster is so young that the way we end up ahead of other teams must result from internal improvement. The 4 is a bigger problem than either the 1 or the 5. Our backup 3 has been killing us.

I guess I'm not really that optimistic. I'm just saying that I have very little interest in discussing the state of the tank.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

It's not that they shouldn't care. It's that more teams are worse than us. There are no players to sit in hopes of getting a higher pick outside of Chandler and Dudley. If we get a high pick, it's because we aren't winning games with the kids we have. Sure, it's growing pains, but getting blown out by 20+ points multiple times doesn't display team growth.

I agree that the growth aspect is concerning. Not that I'm writing these guys off or that PER is some perfect stat but it's pretty damn horrible that the 4 draft picks (Bender, Chriss, Ulis, and Jackson) from the last two years who actually get minutes right now all have under a 10 PER.... that's not good at all.

That's why I've been an advocate of firing McD. Let's face the facts he's been here for 5 years and the Suns have a grand total of 2 guys in Warren and Booker who look like sure fire long term rotation players for this team. And that's not just counting draft picks where his record is mixed at best but that's including trades and FA. To me it's simply not good enough.

Agreed. I was a huge McD defender, but his overall picture isn't pretty. I have a feeling James Jones will take his place soon.

**** I hope not. I have a feeling we'd get a string of "player's coaches" and short-sighted moves.

The overall picture with McD has been the construction of a massive war chest of assets. Hard to nail the draft every year, but **** it sure would be nice to see people embrace some perspective... Bender and Chriss have both shown flashes and are extremely young. Most of the players in this league were not + NBA players at the age of 20. Kudos to McD for staying the course, and even more kudos to Sarver for sticking with him.

[LukasBMW]

The thing that scares me about Len is that it took us to not extend his contract for him to actually step up and play like his career depended on it (Which it does). The rest of the years he's been with us, he's just been kinda ho-hum and really under preformed.

And even with his step up in play, he still makes a lot of stupid mistakes. For a Center he makes a loooooooow percentage of his shots. Now i am loving his rebounding and defensive effort, but if he lands a new contract with us, will he revert back to the same old Len, or stay the guy with increased play once he had a fire lit under his ass. Thats the real question.

Exactly. This is what scares me too.

I'll take him as a backup at 3 years 18 million though.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

The thing that scares me about Len is that it took us to not extend his contract for him to actually step up and play like his career depended on it (Which it does). The rest of the years he's been with us, he's just been kinda ho-hum and really under preformed.

And even with his step up in play, he still makes a lot of stupid mistakes. For a Center he makes a loooooooow percentage of his shots. Now i am loving his rebounding and defensive effort, but if he lands a new contract with us, will he revert back to the same old Len, or stay the guy with increased play once he had a fire lit under his ass. Thats the real question.

Exactly. This is what scares me too.

I'll take him as a backup at 3 years 18 million though.

This does not scare me at all. I think his effort and attitude have been there from day 1. What's different now is that Alex is comfortable with his body and has simplified his game. Contract won't change that.

[darealjuice]

Read on Twitter

I don't mind Sidery, but I really don't understand his recent obsession over Fizdale. Our goal shouldn't be to hire guys to "flip the negative image revolving around the franchise," it should be to find the best coach to turn this team into competitors. If he really believes that's Fizdale then cool, I admittedly don't know enough about him as a coach to say anything about him, it just feels like it's more of a "new coach available and we don't have one, so we should get him" situation. I don't really understand how hiring them fixes our image though, I get they're respected by old Heat players but is there anything else to it...?

[Son of Ra]

I like Len. There, I said it.
I'd be upset if we couldn't bring him back on a reasonable long-term deal. All the blind hate and bashing aside, he's a damn fine backup and with more quality from the other positions even good enough to be a starter.

[RaisingArizona]

Enough with the tanking. Winning games is not treadmilling. It's not all or nothing. There's steps you have to take to be a title contender and getting to the damn playoffs is the first one.