2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

Post #21 » by **lilfishi22** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:50 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:

Read on Twitter

That's pretty bad. And not surprised to see CP3 not in there

Ghost of Kleine · Post #22 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:56 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:

Read on Twitter

That's pretty bad. And not surprised to see CP3 not in there

Yep! The 1 and the 4 are still in need of critical upgrades so we can move Payne and Craig back to the bench to bolster our depth and give a boost to our bench. I might even prefer we find a top notch starting 4 and also have Johnson come off the bench at the 4 with Craig at the 3 to cover his rebounding deficencies.
Paul/Booker/Bridges/Trade/Ayton.
Payne/Shamet/Craig/Johnson/Biyombo. :nod:

sunskerr · Post #23 » by **sunskerr** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:58 am

Not that Im pulling for him specifically but I think out of any name I've heard mentioned here that is realistically obtainable and could help us now and in the future is Rui Hachimura.

Not a good defender. Not the greatest floor spacer. But on the bright side he's 24 and can still score well enough. Gets his shot better than, say, John Collins. Great athlete.

I feel like in the worst case scenario by the time he's 27 he's got the impact of like what Markieff and Marcus were able to do with us. Of course, if he never improves defensively he's not a player you want.

But he's also improved his scoring this year (highest per 36 so far in his career).

If that's all we got for Crowder then I think I could live with it. I don't think there's any other players out there you could get for Crowder who at least have the ability to get you 20 ppg. Of the NBA players whom I think are breakout candidates waiting to happen (as in, they are good RIGHT NOW but just need the minutes), I put Hachimura probably smack dab in the 50% group - maybe he never gets better or maybe he's a gem. There are some good things and some not so encouraging things.

But one thing we need to learn is that you will never be able to trade for a guy who is showing all the signs of breaking out, and you definitely can't wait until they break out to trade for them, because in both cases the buy low window slams shut. You have to get them while there is still doubt. So if anyone in the FO has some secret scouting or data on Hachimura that we're not privy too then you try and get him.

Anyway hopefully something with Crowder happens. Wouldn't plan on anything happening because it's James Jones. But maybe we'll be surprised. Or maybe we'll be in tears.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #24 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:24 am

sunskerr wrote:Not that Im pulling for him specifically but I think out of any name I've heard mentioned here that is realistically obtainable and could help us now and in the future is Rui Hachimura.

Not a good defender. Not the greatest floor spacer. But on the bright side he's 24 and can still score well enough. Gets his shot better than, say, John Collins. Great athlete.

I feel like in the worst case scenario by the time he's 27 he's got the impact of like what Markieff and Marcus were able to do with us. Of course, if he never improves defensively he's not a player you want.

But he's also improved his scoring this year (highest per 36 so far in his career).

If that's all we got for Crowder then I think I could live with it. I don't think there's any other players out there you could get for Crowder who at least have the ability to get you 20 ppg. Of the NBA players whom I think are breakout candidates waiting to happen (as in, they are good RIGHT NOW but just need the minutes), I put Hachimura probably smack dab in the 50% group - maybe he never gets better or maybe he's a gem. There are some good things and some not so encouraging things.

But one thing we need to learn is that you will never be able to trade for a guy who is showing all the signs of breaking out, and you definitely can't wait until they break out to trade for them, because in both cases the buy low window slams shut. You have to get them while there is still doubt. So if anyone in the FO has some secret scouting or data on Hachimura that we're not privy too then you try and get him.

Anyway hopefully something with Crowder happens. Wouldn't plan on anything happening because it's James Jones. But maybe we'll be surprised. Or maybe we'll be in tears.

I'd be all over Hachimura if he had just one more year on that rookie deal. I'm just not eager to negotiate with two RFAs who play the same position this summer.

Post #25 » by **Qwigglez** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:09 am

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
sunskerr wrote:
Spoiler:
Not that Im pulling for him specifically but I think out of any name I've heard mentioned here that is realistically obtainable and could help us now and in the future is Rui Hachimura.

Not a good defender. Not the greatest floor spacer. But on the bright side he's 24 and can still score well enough. Gets his shot better than, say, John Collins. Great athlete.

I feel like in the worst case scenario by the time he's 27 he's got the impact of like what Markieff and Marcus were able to do with us. Of course, if he never improves defensively he's not a player you want.

But he's also improved his scoring this year (highest per 36 so far in his career).

If that's all we got for Crowder then I think I could live with it. I don't think there's any other players out there you could get for Crowder who at least have the ability to get you 20 ppg. Of the NBA players whom I think are breakout candidates waiting to happen (as in, they are good RIGHT NOW but just need the minutes), I put Hachimura probably smack dab in the 50% group - maybe he never gets better or maybe he's a gem. There are some good things and some not so encouraging things.

But one thing we need to learn is that you will never be able to trade for a guy who is showing all the signs of breaking out, and you definitely can't wait until they break out to trade for them, because in both cases the buy low window slams shut. You have to get them while there is still doubt. So if anyone in the FO has some secret scouting or data on Hachimura that we're not privy too then you try and get him.

Anyway hopefully something with Crowder happens. Wouldn't plan on anything happening because it's James Jones. But maybe we'll be surprised. Or maybe we'll be in tears.

I'd be all over Hachimura if he had just one more year on that rookie deal. I'm just not eager to negotiate with two RFAs who play the same position this summer.

That is a good point. I like Rui as well. I'm unsure what his value would be in the RFA market. I imagine slightly higher than what Jalen Smith got, but I'm unsure if anyone is willing to offer even $10 million a season. I'm thinking he might have to do a prove it contract, so maybe like a 2 year deal with a player opt out clause at $9 million a season.

Post #26 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:14 am

Patty Mills not even playing. We really should just trade Crowder for him (helps them with KD out) and another small piece..TJ Warren? Mills is shooting very well..41% from 3 (well over career avg of 38%) and 54% from 2 (WAY above career % of 48%). He is just behind Simmons/Kyrie and then Cam Thomas/Curry. They just don't need him.

He makes less than $7 million.

TJ Warren is shooting over 58% from 2, far better than he even did in Phx. 35% from 3, which is still decent, better than most his time in Phx.

Once Cam and Bridges start, Craig and TJ as forwards off the bench would be nice.

If healthy we are ok at guard, but we usually have 2-3 injured, and often 4 (Booker, Paul, Payne and Shamet). Mills would have helped a lot.

It's not a GREAT package but I don't expect one for Crowder.

Seems reasonable and would be a nice plug in for them at PF with KD out.

Post #27 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:55 am

If we can just get something decent for Crowder and with that Ishbia report could some turn expirings and a first into a legit starting PG (was going to say Rozier but his efficiency is awful this year)....but just two trades like that, especially with our guys back would make us a lot more.

Bogyo · Post #28 » by **Bogyo** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:49 am

Maaan, I hoped this kinda news hits differently. While I'm estatic about the "money aint a problem" scenario, I'm scared that JJ is involved in the decisionmaking, and that we think that CP is still the way to go. False hope. Especially going forward.

This would be the perfect time to rip off the bandaid, and lay the foundations of the next contending team here - instead here I am being scared how we gonna screw that up too with hanging onto a dinosaur, and JJ throwing away assets like he usually does to change this unrealistic dream.

Here is hoping I'm wrong and we make the right trades and team building decisons, so we can actually win a title in the next 4-6 years in Bookers prime.

sunskerr · Post #29 » by **sunskerr** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:57 am

Patty Mills isnt playing because he sucks. We'd be better served with Damion Lee of the bench at PG. I really like TJ Warren but I feel like the Nets like him too.

If Masai really has interest in Ayton I'd still want Achiuwa coming back here as part of that deal.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #30 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:23 am

bwgood77 wrote:If we can just get something decent for Crowder and with that Ishbia report could some turn expirings and a first into a legit starting PG (was going to say Rozier but his efficiency is awful this year)....but just two trades like that, especially with our guys back would make us a lot more.

We could probably get D rose just for Crowder and Saric! Likely wouldn't even need the 1st too.

And IF future 1sts aren't really an issue here (as long as we don't become the Flakers), maybe we could do a 3 way trade of:
New York/Utah/ Phoenix.

New York gets- Crowder/ Saric/ Phoenix future 2nd.
Utah gets- Rose/Reddish/ Phoenix future (lotto protected 1st).
Phoenix gets- Conley/Vanderbilt.

OR seeing as Utah really covets Collins (for whatever reason, Buy low maybe)? But anyways.......................
Phoenix/Atlanta/Utah.

Atlanta gets- Crowder/Saric/Craig/ Phoenix 2027 (Top 6 lotto protected 1st)/ Phx future 2nd.
Utah gets- Collins/ Jalen Johnson/ Phx 24' (top 15 protected) 1st.
Phoenix gets Sexton/ Vanderbilt/ Kaminsky. :dontknow:

Post #31 » by **Qwigglez** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:39 am

Raptors were up 14 with 9:45 to go against the Wolves without Gobert or Towns. Wolves made a couple of buckets but the Raptors scored again to be up 12 with 7:50 to go. DLo hit a couple of big 3s down the stretch scoring 16 in the 4th quarter, made a nice pocket pass to a cutter for an assist. Wolves end up winning by 2. Not sure what the Raptors plan on doing before the deadline, they were pretty much at full strength.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #32 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:19 am

sunskerr wrote:Patty Mills isnt playing because he sucks. We'd be better served with Damion Lee of the bench at PG. I really like TJ Warren but I feel like the Nets like him too.

If Masai really has interest in Ayton I'd still want Achiuwa coming back here as part of that deal.

I get that Ayton is still up and down at times, But he's still a walking double/double on elite efficiency. So the value (and salary for matching too) :wink:

Would have to look like:

Ayton/Shamet for Van Vleet/ Trent/ Achiuwa/Koloko/ AND Toronto 23' first. I'm certain they'd easily do that as they're still pairing Siakim with Ayton whilst keeping Anunoby (whom they can move for another guard option, and Barnes too. As for Van Vleet and Trent, They're looking to move them anyways BECAUSE they don't want to pay him 30 million he's likely seeking. AND Trent upwards of 20 million. IF money/picks isn't an issue for Ishbia, Then NEXT we do this:

Trade-1-Phoenix/Lakers/ Atlanta
LA Lakers get- Van Vleet/ Trent.
Atlanta gets- Westbrick's 47 million expiring/Koloko.
Phoenix gets- Collins/Capela/ Johnson/Kaminsky/ Laker's 23' 2nd.

Trade-2- Phoenix/Utah
Utah gets- Collins/ Achiuwa / Toronto 23' 1st/ Phoenix 24' (top 12 lotto protected) 1st.
Phoenix gets- Sexton/ Vanderbilt/ Naw.

Paul /Booker /Bridges /Johnson / Capela.
Sexton/ Naw / Vanderbilt / Kaminsky/ Biyombo.
Payne /Lee /Okogie / Nelson/ Carlson.

2023 Draft
Phoenix 23' 1st- ( late 20's most likely) Draft Grant Nelson (young Markannen) to replace Landale.
LA Flakers 2nd- Draft Reece Beekman (lockdown defensive guard/ playmaker) to replace Payne.
Phoenix 2nd- Draft Branden Carlson to replace Landale.
Post draft 3rd rotation bench becomes:
Beekman/ Okogie/ Ish / Nelson/ Carlson.

Puff · Post #33 » by **Puff** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:51 am

Slim Charless wrote:
Puff wrote:
sunsbum wrote: Wait, so you spend months complaining that JJ sits on his hands, then when you find out they are actually active you spin it negatively, I'm shocked.

All this guy does is complain about JJ and Monty with no legit solutions. We are not going to get Presti, just stop it. He has fixation on a coach that could not win anything in Utah. What a joke.

I expect that no one wants either Crowder or Ayton. Hell, we don't want them. Who else do you trade that will return anything you would want?

Phil Jackson would struggle coaching this group with Shamet being his starting point guard while having lazy ass Ayton as his center and over hyped Mikal Bridges as your key player. My bet is that neither Monty nor JJ are going anywhere after the new ownership takes over. They are not the problem. It is like the Perfect Storm has hit this franchise. Unfortunately, it probably will not be until next year at the earliest when we become relevant again.

"No legit solutions"

Yup all I never post about prospects, or trades, or coaches or anything besides Monty and JJ

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yup. OK. Lol

PS: Stop day drinking.........or day meth using.

You are a joke.

JJ and Monty took us to the finals they are not playing fantasy basketball. You just make up a scenario you love and expect them to do exactly as you say or you pout like a spoiled brat and call for their heads. You have no idea what restrictions that they are dealing with due to the purchase of the franchise. You have no ideas what is going on behind closed doors.

I think we should hire the Golden State Warriors GM this off season and if we can't get him lets go after that guy in Boston. We should hire Phil Jackson to be the coach or if we can't get him I would hire Steve Kerr. Those are my plans. F Presti and your loser from Utah.

sunsbg · Post #34 » by **sunsbg** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:48 pm

Sounds like no restrictions anymore.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270076/Suns-Have-Informed-Teams-Theyll-Take-On-Salary-In-Trades

Sunlight · Post #35 » by **Sunlight** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:43 pm

M.Beasley, THT and Crowder --> Hawks
Suns future 1st, Hawks future 2nd, J.Collins and Saric --> Jazz
Bogdan and Vanderbilt --> Suns

Makes most sense.

BobbieL · Post #36 » by **BobbieL** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:00 pm

Sunlight wrote:M.Beasley, THT and Crowder --> Hawks
Suns future 1st, Hawks future 2nd, J.Collins and Saric --> Jazz
Bogdan and Vanderbilt --> Suns

Makes most sense.

does the FRP from the Suns have protections or because its 2024 or 2025 - limited protections.

I like the deal though from the Suns point of view
the Jazz get collins - so that makes sense
Hawks get expirings and draft picks - not sure what they want though

I like it - both players the Suns are getting are signed through 2024 - which I think is important - good work

Calvin Klein · Post #37 » by **Calvin Klein** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:07 pm

Puff wrote:JJ and Monty took us to the finals they are not playing fantasy basketball. You just make up a scenario you love and expect them to do exactly as you say or you pout like a spoiled brat and call for their heads. You have no idea what restrictions that they are dealing with due to the purchase of the franchise. You have no ideas what is going on behind closed doors.

Finally some sense. This applies to a lot of people unfortunately.

We've been better than anyone expected these last few years. Half the team gets injured, the team is sold and now everybody that was so great before, becomes inept. :crazy:

NapoleonII · Post #38 » by **NapoleonII** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:18 pm

The Jazz aren't taking Collins when they have Markkanen.

I don't think anyone wants him.

He's basically a Bobby Portis that gets paid 3x the amount.

Slim Charless · Post #39 » by **Slim Charless** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:39 pm

Puff wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Puff wrote:
All this guy does is complain about JJ and Monty with no legit solutions. We are not going to get Presti, just stop it. He has fixation on a coach that could not win anything in Utah. What a joke.

I expect that no one wants either Crowder or Ayton. Hell, we don't want them. Who else do you trade that will return anything you would want?

Phil Jackson would struggle coaching this group with Shamet being his starting point guard while having lazy ass Ayton as his center and over hyped Mikal Bridges as your key player. My bet is that neither Monty nor JJ are going anywhere after the new ownership takes over. They are not the problem. It is like the Perfect Storm has hit this franchise. Unfortunately, it probably will not be until next year at the earliest when we become relevant again.

"No legit solutions"

Yup all I never post about prospects, or trades, or coaches or anything besides Monty and JJ

Yup. OK. Lol

PS: Stop day drinking.........or day meth using.

You are a joke.

JJ and Monty took us to the finals they are not playing fantasy basketball. You just make up a scenario you love and expect them to do exactly as you say or you pout like a spoiled brat and call for their heads. You have no idea what restrictions that they are dealing with due to the purchase of the franchise. You have no ideas what is going on behind closed doors.

I think we should hire the Golden State Warriors GM this off season and if we can't get him lets go after that guy in Boston. We should hire Phil Jackson to be the coach or if we can't get him I would hire Steve Kerr. Those are my plans. F Presti and your loser from Utah.

Lol

Look how triggered you are. What a little cuck. Very very amusing.

As to your greater "ideas".... you call my ideas dumb and you come with "let's hire Steve Kerr or that guy from Boston" HAHAHAHAHA...because Brad Stevens is just gonna leave and come here.

Phil Jackson? Hahahaha. He's like 80 you stupid **** moron. You think he's coming here?

Stupid useless post by a stupid useless poster. Your specialty. At least you stop posting about Ayton long enough to do it.

Tell you what loser, I'll make a bet that if they hire Phil Jackson, Kerr, or Stevens, I'll never post here again. You make the same deal that if they hire Presti, you f_ck off forever.

You have a greater chance finding you dick in the shower, then you do of getting them to hire either of your guys.

Now dance for me little cuck and say something else triggered and stupid.

Frank Lee · Post #40 » by **Frank Lee** » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:45 pm

Sounds like they intend to do more than move chowder. Better protect that pick Matty

Kind of feels like a status quo approach to the Front Office as well.

Initial thoughts on KD for Bridges, Cam, Crowder, plus picks?