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Booker updates and news

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Where would you rank last year's Booker on the 2004-05 team?

Best player
4
7%
2nd best
7
12%
3rd best
22
37%
4th best
19
32%
5th best
7
12%
 
Total votes: 59

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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#501 » by MathiasPW » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:42 pm

NTB wrote:


:uhoh:

I think the conclusion (he can be 3rd or 4th best player on a good team) is incompatible with the analysis.
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#502 » by Qwigglez » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:08 pm

If he was third or fourth option on a good team I'd say that team is probably better than the Warriors team that won 70+games.
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#503 » by bwgood77 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:54 pm

MathiasPW wrote:
NTB wrote:


:uhoh:

I think the conclusion (he can be 3rd or 4th best player on a good team) is incompatible with the analysis.


The defensive parts are pretty worrisome. I think if he was average on that end it would change his trajectory overall a great deal. That's the one thing I worry about. The only other thing might be ball movement and shooting fewer 3s off the dribble. I was surprised his percentile was so low there.
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#504 » by Crives » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:11 pm

The defense part was slightly encouraging to me...
I feel like Books effort on off ball D will improve when we don’t have drive the entire offense through him.

I am sure on ball defense will continue to improve... wouldn’t be surprised if Book is a + off ball defender in 3-4 years.
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#505 » by bwgood77 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:15 pm

Crives wrote:The defense part was slightly encouraging to me...
I feel like Books effort on off ball D will improve when we don’t have drive the entire offense through him.

I am sure on ball defense will continue to improve... wouldn’t be surprised if Book is a + off ball defender in 3-4 years.


I don't know...he always seems to ball watch and completely not pay attention to his man...he really sags off of them too where he can't adequately close out in time.

His one on one defense can be solid, but all the off ball/team defense is what is concerning, which is also kind of what holds back Ayton and Oubre defensively. They can be good on ball but off it they can all get lost. Hopefully we see a lot of improvement here, but I think we will be hard pressed not to be bottom 2 or 3 defensively this year.
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#506 » by JDLAW » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:04 pm

The video analysis is terrible. It appears the guy went in with a predetermined message and then found the evidence could not let him be as critical as he wanted to be. I am getting so tired of the laziness of these people with their application of "empty stats" labeling. It is dishonest and disingenuous.

Edit - he got the 2pt FG percentage wrong also - it was actually 54%.
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#507 » by bwgood77 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:22 pm

JDLAW wrote:The video analysis is terrible. It appears the guy went in with a predetermined message and then found the evidence could not let him be as critical as he wanted to be. I am getting so tired of the laziness of these people with their application of "empty stats" labeling. It is dishonest and disingenuous.

Edit - he got the 2pt FG percentage wrong also - it was actually 54%.


Didn't he just mention midrange with the %? I don't think he counted the dunks and layups. Regardless, that was one of the big positives he had on him...saying he was one of the best from that range.
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#508 » by Blonde » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:36 pm

If Jamal Murray can be the 2nd best player on a title contending team it’s ridiculous to say that Booker can’t be. I believe that Booker can be the best player on a good team, and the 2nd best player on a great team.
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#509 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:14 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Crives wrote:The defense part was slightly encouraging to me...
I feel like Books effort on off ball D will improve when we don’t have drive the entire offense through him.

I am sure on ball defense will continue to improve... wouldn’t be surprised if Book is a + off ball defender in 3-4 years.


I don't know...he always seems to ball watch and completely not pay attention to his man...he really sags off of them too where he can't adequately close out in time.

His one on one defense can be solid, but all the off ball/team defense is what is concerning, which is also kind of what holds back Ayton and Oubre defensively. They can be good on ball but off it they can all get lost. Hopefully we see a lot of improvement here, but I think we will be hard pressed not to be bottom 2 or 3 defensively this year.

Maybe it's just my mindset but to me it's nothing we didn't know about his defense and if anything, it gives me hope and encouragement that with a proper defensive scheme and defensive players around him, he'd be a lot more focused on that end of the court. I think a portion of his ball watching, sagging and being slow on shows can be minimized if he has a better understanding of an actual defensive scheme and how to make use of more experienced/high defensive IQ players around him. He won't ever be an above replacement level defender but I think he has potential to be at least average.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#510 » by bwgood77 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:24 pm

Blonde wrote:If Jamal Murray can be the 2nd best player on a title contending team it’s ridiculous to say that Booker can’t be. I believe that Booker can be the best player on a good team, and the 2nd best player on a great team.


It all depends on context. If a team has super depth like Denver or Toronto did this past year, definitely. And with Booker (and Ayton), we would need top notch defenders in the rest of the top 8 players or so.

I also think when people mention first options, a lot of people seem to equate that to best overall player, but it really to me feels like it should mean option on offense. I think Booker, if he gets up to a 40% 3 pt shooter or close with the high free throw rate and great midrange game like he improved on this year, he could potentially be a # 1 offensive option on a great team.

It will always be tough to be more efficient than Ayton unless he gets to elite 3 pt shooting, and especially if Ayton adds an efficient 3, but Booker's ability to create, get to the line and be more versatile I think he could be a #1 offensive option on a great team.

He'a already rising up the charts as an offensive player and with continued growth could be top 10 there soon. He's already around top 20 based on metrics and that was playing with crap teammates.
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#511 » by In2ition » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:26 pm

Here is the podcast that gave more info on the video he posted. TBH, I thought he missed the boat a little bit, when he didn't look into the numbers that Booker put up.
1. He didn't talk about not having an NBA level PG to relieve him and help him get open looks.
2. He didn't mention that he had the lost rate of open looks in the entire league.
3. He didn't mention that he had hand surgery on his shooting hand in training camp and missed the entire training camp and pre-season.
4. He also didn't mention that missing that time probably was a cause of the hamstring issues that he had and then those hamstring issues caused the back stiffness and issues.
5. Also, he didn't factor into his assist rates that he had the highest rate of potential assists that went unconverted in the league. All those things matter to the context of the type of player he is.

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?s=20
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#512 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:01 am

In2ition wrote:Here is the podcast that gave more info on the video he posted. TBH, I thought he missed the boat a little bit, when he didn't look into the numbers that Booker put up.
1. He didn't talk about not having an NBA level PG to relieve him and help him get open looks.
2. He didn't mention that he had the lost rate of open looks in the entire league.
3. He didn't mention that he had hand surgery on his shooting hand in training camp and missed the entire training camp and pre-season.
4. He also didn't mention that missing that time probably was a cause of the hamstring issues that he had and then those hamstring issues caused the back stiffness and issues.
5. Also, he didn't factor into his assist rates that he had the highest rate of potential assists that went unconverted in the league. All those things matter to the context of the type of player he is.

Read on Twitter
?s=20


True, but a guy that does videos for all types of players probably is less aware of many of those things, so you take what he came up with and add your own caveats, like him being healthy, not being trapped as much, and potentially learning to move the ball quickly more often to keep defenses off balance. It's easier to scout and prepare if they know Booker will try to do a lot himself while others stand and wait or watch. Obviously his assists are up which is great, but I think if our whole team moves the ball quickly, like Pop is preaching to the USA team (which is the primary reason I thought it would be of benefit to him, along with Pop focusing on defense). Any new perspective from an elite coach will be helpful.
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#513 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:15 am

The guy obviously put in a good amount of research but he obviously can't know in as much detail as Suns fans do. But to dismiss his points, the majority of which are valid and I think most are in agreement with, would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The guy's video is excellent in my view, the points he makes are more facts than hope and I think it should give Suns fans a perspective from someone who I think is fairly unbiased and looking in from the outside. I just dislike this notion that if you're not a Suns writer then anything written negatively about the Suns is "hate" or "dishonest".
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#514 » by In2ition » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:59 am

Ben is very smart and he is very good at what he does. I don't have a problem with him. Honestly, I've been waiting for this. I've heard him on podcasts before talking about Booker. He went in with a belief that Booker was a lot worse than he discovered. I still don't agree with him thinking that his ceiling is a 3rd or 4th option on a championship caliber team. He has an alpha mentality and turning him into a guy that becomes a 3 & D type of role player and not asked to do much other than shoot and score like he is JJ Reddick or Danny Green seems really shortsighted.

Another thing, the guys he compares to Booker aren't all that great or even have nearly the same stats and efficiency that Booker has had in his career so far.
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#515 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:15 am

In2ition wrote:Ben is very smart and he is very good at what he does. I don't have a problem with him. Honestly, I've been waiting for this. I've heard him on podcasts before talking about Booker. He went in with a belief that Booker was a lot worse than he discovered. I still don't agree with him thinking that his ceiling is a 3rd or 4th option on a championship caliber team. He has an alpha mentality and turning him into a guy that becomes a 3 & D type of role player and not asked to do much other than shoot and score like he is JJ Reddick or Danny Green seems really shortsighted.

Another thing, the guys he compares to Booker aren't all that great or even have nearly the same stats and efficiency that Booker has had in his career so far.


I think the plethora of players we've added since Jones took over are really going to help Booker improve his percentages and advanced stats next season. I think he can be a better defender, as well as a more efficient scorer, with quality players around him and competitive games to play.

It's telling that with McD gone only one year, all of our rotation players are James Jones pickups, plus Booker, Ayton and Bridges.
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#516 » by darmani » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:35 pm

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"Can’t talk basketball with everybody" - Devin Booker
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#517 » by Crives » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:01 pm

darmani wrote:Image


That 3pt% ...
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#518 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:26 pm

Westbrook......ouch
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Booker updates and news 

Post#519 » by Saberestar » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:39 am

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