285 - Jones/Gane, Valentina, Rakhmonov, Bo Nickal

[Dupp]

Cyril looked awful

No, Jones is the goat GOAT. Greatest fighter ever.

Both can be true. Cyril never looked that bad and scared on the feet. Fight was over before it started

[Susan]

Curtis Blaydes would be the guy I'd predict beats Jones.

Really good wrestler, actually bigger than Jones and has elite length to match Jones' kickboxing and his power double is really freaking good.

[REDDzone]

Curtis Blaydes would be the guy I'd predict beats Jones.

Really good wrestler, actually bigger than Jones and has elite length to match Jones' kickboxing and his power double is really freaking good.

Page 2 of this thread you say Jones is "the greatest fighter of all time". And then on page 3 it's "actually Curtis Blaydes can beat him". Lol wut???

Just a laughable claim man. Nobody, including Daniel Cormier, out wrestles Jones in MMA. Period. The HW division is at his mercy unless Francis somehow returns which isn't going to happen. Jamahal's weak @ss better hope old man Stipe isn't out for TOO long lest Jones decide to come take his 205 title back with ease too.

Forget the asterixes for a minute...Jon Jones is by far the greatest fighter who has ever lived.

[ronnymac2]

Let's see, I definitely got Shavkat winning inside 1 wrong. Much respect to Neal for making it a war. Dude was tough as hell with great hands as well.

Turner vs. Gamrot was great but outdone by the above fight. Very good undercard. Cody was pretty unimpressive imo. Brunson is done. Ribas looked very good.

I did say if Jones wrestles he wins handily. Really sucked to get that one right on many levels.

Grasso was the emotional highlight. Awesome. She won round 1, too.

[Headliner]

Jones is going to fight Stipe next, if he wins I bet he retires.
There’s nothing left for him to gain. Beat the HW goat and claim his title forever.

[Headliner]

Also Dana basically saying Francis is never welcome back in the ufc is peak douchebaggery. Man is such a massive pos.

Also tried to say he doesn’t have money. Said he’s be broke if he took off 3 years like Jon. Man just lies through his teeth about everything

Anything is possible.

I really doubt it. Francis is 37, he squandered his career unfortunately. At best it would take another year or so, Jones is probably retired by then and Francis will be 38 or 39. The ufc isnt getting back into that circus for a 38 or 39 year old.

Francis played himself I think. Listened to the wrong people, and held himself too much on a pedestal. Amazing power striker, but it’s not like he's an all timer, his career isn’t even that impressive.
His best wins are 1-1 with Stipe, Gaines, Blaydes.
JDS and Cain were washed at that point, Cain should never have fought.

Honestly I’d say Stipe should have retired after DC, and shouldn’t go against Jones. He’s 41 he’s declining fast as well.

[Dupp]

You sound like a Dana boot licker, which is on brand.


Francis did exactly what he wanted to do.

[jc23]

Jones is going to fight Stipe next, if he wins I bet he retires.
There’s nothing left for him to gain. Beat the HW goat and claim his title forever.

thats if he can make it that long without **** up.

as for stipe, he needs to stay retired, he has that mumbled speech pattern you see with fighters who have brain damage. He is going to be one of those sad cases of fighters who waited to long to step away.

[Susan]

Curtis Blaydes would be the guy I'd predict beats Jones.

Really good wrestler, actually bigger than Jones and has elite length to match Jones' kickboxing and his power double is really freaking good.

Page 2 of this thread you say Jones is "the greatest fighter of all time". And then on page 3 it's "actually Curtis Blaydes can beat him". Lol wut???

Just a laughable claim man. Nobody, including Daniel Cormier, out wrestles Jones in MMA. Period. The HW division is at his mercy unless Francis somehow returns which isn't going to happen. Jamahal's weak @ss better hope old man Stipe isn't out for TOO long lest Jones decide to come take his 205 title back with ease too.

Forget the asterixes for a minute...Jon Jones is by far the greatest fighter who has ever lived.

Didn't say Blaydes was going to out-wrestle Jones, but he is good enough to neutralize his wrestling just like we saw Reyes do at 205 and that fight would primarily be a HW kickboxing match IMO. Jones has yet to show flash power outside of the one headkick on Cormier, and considering he has like 25 fights in the UFC, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's probably not coming especially considering he's going onto the backhalf of his 30s - that explosion is just something you have or you don't and Jones is just too long/awkward/stiff to be putting people's lights out.

Blaydes lost to Francis 2x and Derrick Lewis on a flash KO. He has pretty much the same frame as Jones, looks better at 250 physically IMO and has some nice KOs at HW - it would be a similar fight as the Reyes fight IMO.

Aspinall is another dude who's a tough matchup. There are guys who can match his length, athleticism and have better explosive power who can and will put his lights out at HW.

[Mehar]

Jones is going to fight Stipe next, if he wins I bet he retires.
There’s nothing left for him to gain. Beat the HW goat and claim his title forever.

I agree. Dana even hinted at that possibility at the post-fight press conference. He mentioned that Jones wants the Stipe fight, and after that he is not sure how long Jones will fight.

I would like to see Jones to fight the Blaydes/Pavlovich winner at the end of the year (if he were to defeat Stipe). That would mean he would have really cleared out the division; and silence the critics who might say that he walked away beating a 40 year old Stipe.

[cowboyronnie]

Curtis Blaydes would be the guy I'd predict beats Jones.

Really good wrestler, actually bigger than Jones and has elite length to match Jones' kickboxing and his power double is really freaking good.

Page 2 of this thread you say Jones is "the greatest fighter of all time". And then on page 3 it's "actually Curtis Blaydes can beat him". Lol wut???

Just a laughable claim man. Nobody, including Daniel Cormier, out wrestles Jones in MMA. Period. The HW division is at his mercy unless Francis somehow returns which isn't going to happen. Jamahal's weak @ss better hope old man Stipe isn't out for TOO long lest Jones decide to come take his 205 title back with ease too.

Forget the asterixes for a minute...Jon Jones is by far the greatest fighter who has ever lived.

No. Blaydes can. Size and a double leg, Blaydes can get Jones down.

Blaydes is length and striking is also very good. He'd have more KOs if it weren't the fact he takes dudes down the moment he stuns them.

He's really underapprecaited is CB.

[cowboyronnie]

Jones is going to fight Stipe next, if he wins I bet he retires.
There’s nothing left for him to gain. Beat the HW goat and claim his title forever.

$3 million or so a fight is to gain, that ain't bad. And that's direct money, not including him being able to sustain his sponsors and so on.

[Dupp]

Blaydes gonna beat sergi and still have to wait for **** stipe

[cowboyronnie]

Herb Dean, man. It's sickening. Derek Brunson passed out from accumulated damage on the ground, he just lay back and went unconscious. Like you would falling asleep in a hammock. You see his arms just fall back over his head. Meanwhile, Dean was standing straight up, knees stiff, with no spring in his body, and allowed the unconscious Brunson to get his head clanged off the canvas hard a couple of additional times.

Get rid of this **** Dean. These aren't errors in judgement, this is just not giving a **** about doing the job well. Stay primed to jump in, for ****'s sake.

[cowboyronnie]

Jones was a Greco guy, right? So TDs require clinches, which won't be easy against a guy with Gane's footwork.

Then again, Gane has fought a lot of stationary dudes recently. Lewis and Taivusa. So it's hard to know what he looks like against another guy who is elusive, doesn't take (m)any direct strikes, and fights at length.

Jones didn't have any actual time doing Greco - he legit taught himself it via YouTube back when YouTube was far less advanced than it is right now. He's an absolute savant and he was doing absurd throws on dudes in the UFC that he taught himself on YouTube and embarrassing fools.

Gane called himself lazy in the build up for this fight - he looked so pathetic on the ground against Francis and IMO Jones would embarrass Francis in a grappling match fairly easily. Physically Jones and Gane are probably really similar but Jones is without question the smartest grappler not named Khabib in the history of the sport. Jones just has to get him down once and that fight is over.

Watched the highlights of Jones/Gus 2 because I think it lays the best case that Jones' decline was from disinterest and not physical decline - he ran through Gus like a knife though butter in 2018 when he was at his absolute peak of dominance in 2013 in his razor close win in the first fight.

Oh, amazing. I'm not even surprised. He's so clearly a straight-up genius for...whatever, leverage or physical contact or however you would categorize it. He seriously should be studied for spatial or physical reasoning by cognitive scientists.

[NO-KG-AI]

Jones is going to fight Stipe next, if he wins I bet he retires.
There’s nothing left for him to gain. Beat the HW goat and claim his title forever.

$3 million or so a fight is to gain, that ain't bad. And that's direct money, not including him being able to sustain his sponsors and so on.

Francis said his offer for the Jones fight was like 8 million. Have to think Jon is around that area at least.

I honestly don’t even think Blaydes would be an interesting fight. I think he gets easily chopped up with Jon’s kicks, and there’s no way he single legs him and takes him down.

I also think he retires after Stipe unless something interesting pops up.

[cowboyronnie]

Jones is going to fight Stipe next, if he wins I bet he retires.
There’s nothing left for him to gain. Beat the HW goat and claim his title forever.

$3 million or so a fight is to gain, that ain't bad. And that's direct money, not including him being able to sustain his sponsors and so on.

Francis said his offer for the Jones fight was like 8 million. Have to think Jon is around that area at least.

Right. 3 million is definitely low. I think he might have been making that at LHW at one time (before back end). But he's held out and is now at HW, so surely getting 8ish.

[Susan]

Jones was a Greco guy, right? So TDs require clinches, which won't be easy against a guy with Gane's footwork.

Then again, Gane has fought a lot of stationary dudes recently. Lewis and Taivusa. So it's hard to know what he looks like against another guy who is elusive, doesn't take (m)any direct strikes, and fights at length.

Jones didn't have any actual time doing Greco - he legit taught himself it via YouTube back when YouTube was far less advanced than it is right now. He's an absolute savant and he was doing absurd throws on dudes in the UFC that he taught himself on YouTube and embarrassing fools.

Gane called himself lazy in the build up for this fight - he looked so pathetic on the ground against Francis and IMO Jones would embarrass Francis in a grappling match fairly easily. Physically Jones and Gane are probably really similar but Jones is without question the smartest grappler not named Khabib in the history of the sport. Jones just has to get him down once and that fight is over.

Watched the highlights of Jones/Gus 2 because I think it lays the best case that Jones' decline was from disinterest and not physical decline - he ran through Gus like a knife though butter in 2018 when he was at his absolute peak of dominance in 2013 in his razor close win in the first fight.

Oh, amazing. I'm not even surprised. He's so clearly a straight-up genius for...whatever, leverage or physical contact or however you would categorize it. He seriously should be studied for spatial or physical reasoning by cognitive scientists.

Here's what was written about Jones in 2009:

And between the possibilities of athleticism and the possibilities of technique, there is Jon Jones. At 21 years old, with less than a year of pro MMA experience, Jonny Bones has already handled two very serviceable light heavyweights in Andre Gusmao and Stephan Bonnar. Moreover, he has done it with his own distinct brand of hyper-offense, where spinning back elbows are as likely as high-amplitude harai goshi, where flying front kicks are as likely as textbook lateral drops.

MMA has had its share of precocious prospects, but few have had the unique style of dynamism that Jones has. He is an athletic marvel, and not in the hackneyed fast-twitch muscle fiber, "explosive and athletic" way. Jones' coordination, leverage and body control are all amazing natural gifts that only reinforce his nature instincts in the cage. This is a future top-10 fighter who could fight for the next decade. Hell, the way sports medicine is going, maybe two decades (again, fingers crossed, knock on wood). And now, with less than a year's experience, he already makes MMA look like pro wrestling with his knack for hurling humans. Jones is a startling, tantalizing glimpse into the sorts of future MMA may have as similar specimens continue to pour in.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/2/3/745223/bloody-elbow-judo-chop-jon

Just so freaking far ahead of everybody. DC was his only worthy rival.

[Gregoire]

Jones didn't have any actual time doing Greco - he legit taught himself it via YouTube back when YouTube was far less advanced than it is right now. He's an absolute savant and he was doing absurd throws on dudes in the UFC that he taught himself on YouTube and embarrassing fools.

Gane called himself lazy in the build up for this fight - he looked so pathetic on the ground against Francis and IMO Jones would embarrass Francis in a grappling match fairly easily. Physically Jones and Gane are probably really similar but Jones is without question the smartest grappler not named Khabib in the history of the sport. Jones just has to get him down once and that fight is over.

Watched the highlights of Jones/Gus 2 because I think it lays the best case that Jones' decline was from disinterest and not physical decline - he ran through Gus like a knife though butter in 2018 when he was at his absolute peak of dominance in 2013 in his razor close win in the first fight.

Oh, amazing. I'm not even surprised. He's so clearly a straight-up genius for...whatever, leverage or physical contact or however you would categorize it. He seriously should be studied for spatial or physical reasoning by cognitive scientists.

Here's what was written about Jones in 2009:

And between the possibilities of athleticism and the possibilities of technique, there is Jon Jones. At 21 years old, with less than a year of pro MMA experience, Jonny Bones has already handled two very serviceable light heavyweights in Andre Gusmao and Stephan Bonnar. Moreover, he has done it with his own distinct brand of hyper-offense, where spinning back elbows are as likely as high-amplitude harai goshi, where flying front kicks are as likely as textbook lateral drops.

MMA has had its share of precocious prospects, but few have had the unique style of dynamism that Jones has. He is an athletic marvel, and not in the hackneyed fast-twitch muscle fiber, "explosive and athletic" way. Jones' coordination, leverage and body control are all amazing natural gifts that only reinforce his nature instincts in the cage. This is a future top-10 fighter who could fight for the next decade. Hell, the way sports medicine is going, maybe two decades (again, fingers crossed, knock on wood). And now, with less than a year's experience, he already makes MMA look like pro wrestling with his knack for hurling humans. Jones is a startling, tantalizing glimpse into the sorts of future MMA may have as similar specimens continue to pour in.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/2/3/745223/bloody-elbow-judo-chop-jon

Just so freaking far ahead of everybody. DC was his only worthy rival.

Jones is GOAT. DC himself is top-10 all-time. 2-0 with prime DC is very impressive!

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't think Aspinall and Jon are going to have the time for them to overlap, but he honestly looks like the best package at heavyweight. I think he looks like a more dynamic evolution of Stipe. Hope his recovery goes well.

Brunson is so sloppy when there is any sign of fatigue. It's like his bones lose their density and become jelly. It's strange that he's beaten some good fighters. He looks like he has 0 balance and his equilibrium is literally broken, his own facial expressions look like a guy that is like "how did I even get in here?" It's wild. Duplessis should be going back home and looking in the mirror and saying, I have a lot of work to do to start fighting the top 5 in this division. I can't picture any way he puts up any fight vs Poatan, Adesanya, Whittaker, Vettori, Costa, etc. I know confidence helps, but you have to be realistic here lol.

I thought Shavkat's submission was crazy, what do we even call that? It was a bully choke I guess? It seems like Neal should have been able to turn into that, but Shavkat probably has a ridiculous squeeze, he left literally no space between their bodies, and towards the end of it started to literally lift him onto his toes where he couldn't turn, and I know there was a ton of fatigue at that point. Geoff Neal looks great too, it will get lost because of how good Rakhmonov is, but that dude is an animal.

Bo Nickal looked a little bit awkward, but the ease of which he went through the grappling motions was impressive. Even when he was putting the arm triangle on, it seemed like it was almost no effort and no energy expended to do any of it.

I know we had very little time to glean anything meaningful, but it did look like Jon was close enough to Ciryl's speed that Gane was a little tentative, and the length of his limbs just made him basically fill the ring up even compared to another huge guy. Gane looked more wary than he did against Francis, but I guess that is a lot to do with familiarity of training together and it being a pure striker.

I think that quote posted above is spot on. Even if he fights guys that might be faster or more explosive, none of these guys are in his ballpark in terms of fluidity of movement. He just maneuvers and moves around in ways they cannot, even if they can sprint better or whatever. The heavyweights don't have a shot in hell tbh. Stipe is fun because he's well rounded and a GOAT at his class, and Francis is a terror and a titan. But the rest of them are going to get rolled over. I think Jones or prime DC could honestly easily grapple **** everyone that's here right now easily. I think even Blaydes would get drained out by either of them early and end up getting wrestled.

Stipe at his peak isn't as talented as Jon IMO, but this version's last 4 fights has been Vicious KO, 4 round war, 5 round war, vicious KO. He's gotten older and a little smaller in every fight since he beat Francis. Feels like it might be a runaway, but it does feel necessary without Francis in the fold.