2024 NBA Draft Thread

[RookieStar]

ESPN says prospects are refusing to work out for the Hornets.

did they mention a reason why?

Yup.. need a source and reason why. Money is money...

[babyjax13]

ESPN says prospects are refusing to work out for the Hornets.

did they mention a reason why?

Yup.. need a source and reason why. Money is money...

Players have been refusing to work out for Charlotte for several years, this is pretty frequent with poorly run organizations (historically, Charlotte and Sacramento seem to have the most of this) and places that are 'undesirable' locations (Utah). This is especially true with players that don't think they will have a role on the team (so it is mainly point guards not working out with Charlotte, but I think Castle is using the 'point guard' cover to avoid Charlotte and Detroit drafting him).

This year: https://www.si.com/nba/hornets/draft/espn-reports-draft-prospects-unwilling-to-workout-for-charlotte#:~:text=Projected%20point%20guards%20Rob%20Dillingham,the%20Hornets%20starting%20point%20guard.

The source was also in the original post, this was an easy google, so I don't know why people are so hung up on it lol

[Chuck Everett]

Nuggets might have to give a legit look at Adem Bona. He could be a steal as a rim runner/athlete they lack on the bench with size.

[Catchall]

did they mention a reason why?

Yup.. need a source and reason why. Money is money...

Players have been refusing to work out for Charlotte for several years, this is pretty frequent with poorly run organizations (historically, Charlotte and Sacramento seem to have the most of this) and places that are 'undesirable' locations (Utah). This is especially true with players that don't think they will have a role on the team (so it is mainly point guards not working out with Charlotte, but I think Castle is using the 'point guard' cover to avoid Charlotte and Detroit drafting him).

This year: https://www.si.com/nba/hornets/draft/espn-reports-draft-prospects-unwilling-to-workout-for-charlotte#:~:text=Projected%20point%20guards%20Rob%20Dillingham,the%20Hornets%20starting%20point%20guard.

The source was also in the original post, this was an easy google, so I don't know why people are so hung up on it lol

I thought Castle might just be saying whatever he can in the moment to try to steer himself to the Spurs. (The argument that he needs to play point guard is pretty thin.) If you look at it from his perspective, with the Spurs he'd get to play next to the top young player in the league, get lots of TV coverage and win games on an up-and-coming team, etc. It's an attractive situation.

[BigGargamel]

According to Wikipedia this is the underclassmen count.

Freshmen - 15
Sophomores - 8
Juniors - 10

Seems like a huuuuuuuuuuuge difference from years past. NIL is making a big time impact.

For example, this was the count five years ago, the 2019 draft.

Freshmen - 20
Sophomores - 22
Juniors - 24

Freshman in particular, they're pretty much all first round guys except Bronny, and we know his situation.

Carlton Carrington
Stephon Castle
Cam Christie
Isaiah Collier
Rob Dillingham
Justin Edwards
Johnny Furphy
Kyshawn George
Bronny James
Jared McCain
Yves Missi
Reed Sheppard
Ja'Kobe Walter
Cody Williams

[CptCrunch]

Can someone explain this delusion going on with Clingan? At least with Edey (who I have a 20-35 pick), I can see a path to extreme upside.

Clingan's ceiling is Walker Kessler. Why is this 50% FT, no offense, slowest player in NBA going #3-5? T Are are people really that deluded by his two NCAA championships?

[BlazersBroncos]

Can someone explain this delusion going on with Clingan? At least with Edey (who I have a 20-35 pick), I can see a path to extreme upside.

Clingan's ceiling is Walker Kessler. Why is this 50% FT, no offense, slowest player in NBA going #3-5? T Are are people really that deluded by his two NCAA championships?

I dont really get it. I like Clingan, and think at like #12 he would be a great pick for OKC. But I dont see why he is being talked about in the Top 5, even Top 3. Or why teams like my Blazers are apparently talking about trading up for him.

I see a guy thats likely going to be an elite rim protector, elite post defender, great rebounder, plays very hard and has a great motor for his size. Loves the game. Decent passing. But I dont see the offensive upside, dont think he is a guy you want as more than the 5th option on offense (Maybe 4th, even then thats a stretch). Dont see a guy that can play anything but drop coverage (And he IS mobile for his size, he just isnt a unicorn).

I could see sense in OKC moving up from 12 to 7 or 8 to take him as he is a pretty ideal fit for what they need, but they have a luxury of assets to use to trade up. What I dont get is rebuilding teams targeting him as seemingly a needle mover. He isnt. He is a good talent, a great fit for some teams and a smart addition for teams (Again, OKC) that need what he brings. But a needle mover he is not.

[Chuck Everett]

Clingan has an NBA role. An elite rim protector is more valuable than a dime a dozen high usage chucker. You got Luka or SGA in this draft, sure don't pick him, but saying he's Walker Kessler isn't an insult. Kessler got jerked his second year due to injury and the Jazz tanking to keep his pick. I personally think he's better than Walker, but my reasoning for why he could go to Houston, because adding a rim protector/big man lob threat (Steve Adams is no longer either) behind Sengun is so worth it. They could throw elite defensive lineups out there with Clingan/Jabari/Eason/Brooks and Amen Thompson for stretches. Houston isn't going to have more star power than Dallas or San Antonio moving forward, but they could have a roster that goes 10-11 deep with quality NBA talent.

[shangrila]

Can someone explain this delusion going on with Clingan? At least with Edey (who I have a 20-35 pick), I can see a path to extreme upside.

Clingan's ceiling is Walker Kessler. Why is this 50% FT, no offense, slowest player in NBA going #3-5? T Are are people really that deluded by his two NCAA championships?

I like the idea that he's suddenly going to become a shooter despite no evidence to back that up.

I heard the same things about Kessler when we drafted him (before shipping him off to Utah for Gobert) and that hasn't become even remotely a thing.

[tester551]

Can someone explain this delusion going on with Clingan? At least with Edey (who I have a 20-35 pick), I can see a path to extreme upside.

Clingan's ceiling is Walker Kessler. Why is this 50% FT, no offense, slowest player in NBA going #3-5? T Are are people really that deluded by his two NCAA championships?

I dont really get it. I like Clingan, and think at like #12 he would be a great pick for OKC. But I dont see why he is being talked about in the Top 5, even Top 3. Or why teams like my Blazers are apparently talking about trading up for him.

I see a guy thats likely going to be an elite rim protector, elite post defender, great rebounder, plays very hard and has a great motor for his size. Loves the game. Decent passing. But I dont see the offensive upside, dont think he is a guy you want as more than the 5th option on offense (Maybe 4th, even then thats a stretch). Dont see a guy that can play anything but drop coverage (And he IS mobile for his size, he just isnt a unicorn).

I could see sense in OKC moving up from 12 to 7 or 8 to take him as he is a pretty ideal fit for what they need, but they have a luxury of assets to use to trade up. What I dont get is rebuilding teams targeting him as seemingly a needle mover. He isnt. He is a good talent, a great fit for some teams and a smart addition for teams (Again, OKC) that need what he brings. But a needle mover he is not.

Agreed with most of this, except the part of Clingan projecting to be an elite rim protector and defender.

He's good in those areas, but not elite

[Catchall]

Can someone explain this delusion going on with Clingan? At least with Edey (who I have a 20-35 pick), I can see a path to extreme upside.

Clingan's ceiling is Walker Kessler. Why is this 50% FT, no offense, slowest player in NBA going #3-5? T Are are people really that deluded by his two NCAA championships?

I think Clingan is, for all intents and purposes, the Jakob Poeltl of this draft. Kel'el Ware might end up the better player if he doesn't have the purported motivation issues.

[tester551]

Clingan has an NBA role. An elite rim protector is more valuable than a dime a dozen high usage chucker. You got Luka or SGA in this draft, sure don't pick him, but saying he's Walker Kessler isn't an insult. Kessler got jerked his second year due to injury and the Jazz tanking to keep his pick. I personally think he's better than Walker, but my reasoning for why he could go to Houston, because adding a rim protector/big man lob threat (Steve Adams is no longer either) behind Sengun is so worth it. They could throw elite defensive lineups out there with Clingan/Jabari/Eason/Brooks and Amen Thompson for stretches. Houston isn't going to have more star power than Dallas or San Antonio moving forward, but they could have a roster that goes 10-11 deep with quality NBA talent.

Again, hes a good rim protector... not elite.

I do like the Mark Williams/ Walker Kessler comps for him though, as realistic outcomes.

I do agree this big man archetype is more impactful than a chucker, but those big men are also significantly less valuable than a 2-way wing

[The Moose]

Clingan has an NBA role. An elite rim protector is more valuable than a dime a dozen high usage chucker. You got Luka or SGA in this draft, sure don't pick him, but saying he's Walker Kessler isn't an insult. Kessler got jerked his second year due to injury and the Jazz tanking to keep his pick. I personally think he's better than Walker, but my reasoning for why he could go to Houston, because adding a rim protector/big man lob threat (Steve Adams is no longer either) behind Sengun is so worth it. They could throw elite defensive lineups out there with Clingan/Jabari/Eason/Brooks and Amen Thompson for stretches. Houston isn't going to have more star power than Dallas or San Antonio moving forward, but they could have a roster that goes 10-11 deep with quality NBA talent.

Again, hes a good rim protector... not elite.

I do like the Mark Williams/ Walker Kessler comps for him though, as realistic outcomes.

I do agree this big man archetype is more impactful than a chucker, but those big men are also significantly less valuable than a 2-way wing

Why do you say good but not elite?

By pretty much every metric available his rim defense numbers are elite and compare favorably to any prospect in the last 5+ years

[2weekswithpay]

Clingan has an NBA role. An elite rim protector is more valuable than a dime a dozen high usage chucker. You got Luka or SGA in this draft, sure don't pick him, but saying he's Walker Kessler isn't an insult. Kessler got jerked his second year due to injury and the Jazz tanking to keep his pick. I personally think he's better than Walker, but my reasoning for why he could go to Houston, because adding a rim protector/big man lob threat (Steve Adams is no longer either) behind Sengun is so worth it. They could throw elite defensive lineups out there with Clingan/Jabari/Eason/Brooks and Amen Thompson for stretches. Houston isn't going to have more star power than Dallas or San Antonio moving forward, but they could have a roster that goes 10-11 deep with quality NBA talent.

Again, hes a good rim protector... not elite.

I do like the Mark Williams/ Walker Kessler comps for him though, as realistic outcomes.

I do agree this big man archetype is more impactful than a chucker, but those big men are also significantly less valuable than a 2-way wing

When Clingan was on the court, opponents shot 43.6% at the rim. That number is better than what Chet, Lively, Kessler, and Mobley had before entering the draft. What makes him not an elite rim protector as a prospect?

[tester551]

Clingan has an NBA role. An elite rim protector is more valuable than a dime a dozen high usage chucker. You got Luka or SGA in this draft, sure don't pick him, but saying he's Walker Kessler isn't an insult. Kessler got jerked his second year due to injury and the Jazz tanking to keep his pick. I personally think he's better than Walker, but my reasoning for why he could go to Houston, because adding a rim protector/big man lob threat (Steve Adams is no longer either) behind Sengun is so worth it. They could throw elite defensive lineups out there with Clingan/Jabari/Eason/Brooks and Amen Thompson for stretches. Houston isn't going to have more star power than Dallas or San Antonio moving forward, but they could have a roster that goes 10-11 deep with quality NBA talent.

Again, hes a good rim protector... not elite.

I do like the Mark Williams/ Walker Kessler comps for him though, as realistic outcomes.

I do agree this big man archetype is more impactful than a chucker, but those big men are also significantly less valuable than a 2-way wing

Why do you say good but not elite?

By pretty much every metric available his rim defense numbers are elite and compare favorably to any prospect in the last 5+ years

I view elite as being the top 2-3 player in the league for that skill.

When watching him play, I don't see opposing players FEARING taking the ball to the rim (like against Motumbo & Davis).

As far as NCAA seasons go, playing around with this site: https://barttorvik.com/trank.php#
With these filters:
Usage ≥ 10; Games Played ≥ 15; Def Reb % ≥ 20; Block % ≥ 6; Box +/- ≥ 5; Def. BPM ≥ 2; Conf = High Major; PORPAGATU! ≥ 4;

We have elite defensive prospects of Towns, Azubuike, Davis, Kessler (by DRtg)
And elite shot blockers of Kessler, Konante, & Davis (by block %)

[The Moose]

Again, hes a good rim protector... not elite.

I do like the Mark Williams/ Walker Kessler comps for him though, as realistic outcomes.

I do agree this big man archetype is more impactful than a chucker, but those big men are also significantly less valuable than a 2-way wing

Why do you say good but not elite?

By pretty much every metric available his rim defense numbers are elite and compare favorably to any prospect in the last 5+ years

I view elite as being the top 2-3 player in the league for that skill.

When watching him play, I don't see opposing players FEARING taking the ball to the rim (like against Motumbo & Davis).

As far as NCAA seasons go, playing around with this site: https://barttorvik.com/trank.php#
With these filters:
Usage ≥ 10; Games Played ≥ 15; Def Reb % ≥ 20; Block % ≥ 6; Box +/- ≥ 5; Def. BPM ≥ 2; Conf = High Major; PORPAGATU! ≥ 4;

We have elite defensive prospects of Towns, Azubuike, Davis, Kessler (by DRtg)
And elite shot blockers of Kessler, Konante, & Davis (by block %)

Like the poster above mentioned, UConn has held teams to under 44% at the rim when Clingan was on the court, and that wasn't just this year, that was last year too. So b2b years of this mark, which in itself is a mark no other defensive prospect has touched in recent years.

Chet was at 46% and he's probably the closest. Guys like Mobley, Kessler, M Williams, Lively and Azubuike were all 50%+.

This season with Clingan on teams shot 7% worse at the rim and last year teams shot 10.2% worse.

These are outlier numbers, its part of the reason why Clingan has led the country in adj. team efficiency margin two years in a row.

IMO he's a better prospect than Kessler, both offensively and defensively, and Kessler has returned borderline top 5 value in what I consider to be a more top heavy draft. I'll honestly be shocked if Clingan doesn't return top 5 VORP value in this class

[WuTang_CMB]

Can someone explain this delusion going on with Clingan? At least with Edey (who I have a 20-35 pick), I can see a path to extreme upside.

Clingan's ceiling is Walker Kessler. Why is this 50% FT, no offense, slowest player in NBA going #3-5? T Are are people really that deluded by his two NCAA championships?

All these bigs have major warts

[BigGargamel]

Edey does not have more upside than Clingan, come on now.

[CptCrunch]

Edey does not have more upside than Clingan, come on now.

Edey has clear star upside and extreme downside of out of NBA in 3 years.

Clingan's upside and downside are some version of role playing starting C, upside of top 7-10 C, downside of bottom 25-30 starting C.

[clyde21]

Trevon Brazile withdrawing from draft and returning to Arkansas