Would you package this years pick if it lands outside the top 3 for Zion Williamson

[Raptorfan2012]

I wouldn't trade RJ for him, because part of the fun of the deal - and perhaps appeal to Zion himself - would be pairing up the two Dukies again. To me, the obvious deal is Poeltl and Boucher for Zion. It gets the Pels well under the tax line, while keeping the Raps under.

Poeltl is a solid C to pair with BI and DJM and mentor Missi.

You will have to add Davion to make salaries work, and thats fine. Good for tanking this season but FO is going to have to work hard to get a new C.

[tecumseh18]

I wouldn't trade RJ for him, because part of the fun of the deal - and perhaps appeal to Zion himself - would be pairing up the two Dukies again. To me, the obvious deal is Poeltl and Boucher for Zion. It gets the Pels well under the tax line, while keeping the Raps under.

Poeltl is a solid C to pair with BI and DJM and mentor Missi.

You will have to add Davion to make salaries work, and thats fine. Good for tanking this season but FO is going to have to work hard to get a new C.

Actually, not according to the ESPN trade machine. And adding Davion's 6 mill to the deal would keep the Pels in the tax. I assume they'd want to duck under.

But this is assuming Pels want to compete this season and next after ditching Zion. Right now they're last in the West, 9.5 games back of a play-in spot. Uh ... nvm

[Thaddy]

A change of scenery and medical staff are first class... could help us rebuild him. If we just trade scraps, it could be well worth it in my opinion.

If you look deeper into it I don't think it's a good idea. His contract is massive and crippling for a franchise. I would be surprised if the Pels can dump him for straight expirings. The injury issues won't get better on a new team and he's overweight. These don't improve as someone ages.

The skills between him and Barnes are also clashing. We need better spacing around Barnes and with Poeltl and Barrett it's already bad. It would be best for us to maintain versatility and build up the values of our role players and look to trade them for other stars down the road.

After some initial interest I would say no to Zion. The risk to higher than I previously thought. I have a feeling he's going to be the next Simmons.

I totally understand your position and your arguments are reasonable. His contract is terrible for the player he is today. If he were the player he was projected to be, it's a different case. I think thats the crux of our differing views. I think that player is still in there. I think a massive rejection and being shipped to a different country are things that can be a wake up call, especially to a player who has been worshipped and courted for many years. On the point of skills clash, no argument from me. But Zion can be so game changing for the raps that it changes the entire calculus of the raptors roster construction. I would expect a lot of adjusments to accomodate a heathy, motivated Zion. The idea of us trading guys we built up for future stars would be more compelling to me if we were a destination market, but we have stuggled a lot with that historically.

All in all, I still think your take is better than mine.

The reward is there. He was slimmed down earlier this summer but then the back tattoo video came out. We have the best development coach in the NBA. It could potentially work out but the cost would be getting dangerously close to the tax apron and dealing with a player who's injured all the time. We would also have to give up either Barrett or Poeltl, probably the prior to make sure we have enough spacing on the court.

The issue is more about Zion's genetics and body type than his work ethic. He ranked in the top 99th percentile in terms of his explosiveness and BMI. This is why his shoe exploded in college and he's had a lot of knee and foot injuries. I think his career won't last until 30 years old.

[MiamiSPX]

Lucky for us who want no part of Zion, is that Masai has a penchant for high character guys. Although he has not been involved in anything illegal, there are still questions about his character. Namely that he refuses to do the one fundamental thing that 98% of pro athletes do; stay in shape.

I am positive Masai would want no part of this.

[WuTang_CMB]

Lol no

the new NBA is about getting young talent because of the value they bring on their rookie deals. we are going to be a bottom 6 team

plus zion is out of shape and always injured

[Wargreymon]

I dunno...the food in Toronto is pretty lit. Not a good combination for both parties. If Zion discovers the Shawarma joints and Jamaican patties the 6ix has to offer, he might very well exceed 400 lbs.

[mieshpal]

Seems like he's all talent with below average professionalism. Will only think otherwise if I see him on an NBA court while not looking like a chunk

Sent from my Pixel 8 using RealGM mobile app

[Tha Cynic]

I expect he would spend more time in the strip clubs in Toronto than on the basketball court.

[Scase]

Anyone that is pro trading for Zion should watch this.

Watch on YouTube

[mdenny]

Smh there is literally no such thing as "tanking for a player" unless you are mathematically inept.

No team...wherever they place in standings...has a greater chance of "getting a player" than 14%.

And if you run a multi-billion dollar franchise in the hopes of a 14% chance....you deserve to lose your job.

All this 'tank for zion' and 'tank for wemby' is children's school yard talk. No serious business person or manager thinks in terms of 14% chances lol.

The whole "tank" thing really is partly a product of internet trolls who are very very dumb. That's not to say all tank ppl are trolls. But all trolls are tank ppl because it's the most alluring stance to take for very dumb ppl who think they are clever.

All that said...I'm kinda satisfied everytime the raptors lose this season. But not because I buy into the "Cooper flagg hype".

I'd estimate there is less than a 20% chance that Flagg ends up the best player of his draft class. Which doesn't mean a team shouldn't pick him #1. It means that NBA drafting is much more inaccurate than tankers typically think it is (despite all the evidence available to them).

So think of it this way in context of "tank for flagg". Let's forget about the odds of coming last in the league. Suppose you do! You have a 14% chance of getting a guy who has a 20% chance of being the best in his draft class.

14% times 20% is 2%.

So if we come in last place...we have a 2% chance of getting Cooper flagg and him becoming the best player from his draft class.

Might as well start playing scratch and win cards.

If the raptors turn things around and start winning games....it is much more likely it will happen because of something none of the tank trolls saw coming. (Like they hated the barnes pick)

[Clutch0z24]

Smh there is literally no such thing as "tanking for a player" unless you are mathematically inept.

No team...wherever they place in standings...has a greater chance of "getting a player" than 14%.

And if you run a multi-billion dollar franchise in the hopes of a 14% chance....you deserve to lose your job.

All this 'tank for zion' and 'tank for wemby' is children's school yard talk. No serious business person or manager thinks in terms of 14% chances lol.

The whole "tank" thing really is partly a product of internet trolls who are very very dumb. That's not to say all tank ppl are trolls. But all trolls are tank ppl because it's the most alluring stance to take for very dumb ppl who think they are clever.

All that said...I'm kinda satisfied everytime the raptors lose this season. But not because I buy into the "Cooper flagg hype".

I'd estimate there is less than a 20% chance that Flagg ends up the best player of his draft class. Which doesn't mean a team shouldn't pick him #1. It means that NBA drafting is much more inaccurate than tankers typically think it is (despite all the evidence available to them).

So think of it this way in context of "tank for flagg". Let's forget about the odds of coming last in the league. Suppose you do! You have a 14% chance of getting a guy who has a 20% chance of being the best in his draft class.

14% times 20% is 2%.
So if we come in last place...we have a 2% chance of getting Cooper flagg and him becoming the best player from his draft class.

Might as well start playing scratch and win cards.

If the raptors turn things around and start winning games....it is much more likely it will happen because of something none of the tank trolls saw coming. (Like they hated the barnes pick)

Who said this is a Cooper Flagg or bust type of draft? The reason pro tankers are so happy about having a high pick is because this draft class is not like the Wemby type of draft where its one player vs the field....There are multiple players with high upsides....And many im sure Masai likes....We have Masai as a drafter with a high pick....I will take my chances with him making the right pick....

And its not about the 14% chance its about putting yourself in the position to get the best draft odds possible so its mathematically impossible for you to slip into a position in the draft where the highest upside players are all taken before you have a chance to take one yourself....And yes Flagg won't be the ONLY good player to come from this draft.....Trust Masai if he has a lets say top 5 pick to make the right call on who he picks in that position....Better than trying to compete with no real players that can win you playoff series because we do not have that kind of a player yet....Keep building up the talent and developing the young guys we are year 1 of the rebuild.....

Rebuilding usually means you are playing the draft for a little bit to add talent to your roster because you are not ready to compete right now....And Masai/Darko/Bobby/Yak all threw out the word Rebuilding many times during the offseason....Its obvious that they want a draft pick.

[God Squad]

I like this draft way too much to trade the pick. We need the talent and depth on cheap contracts.

[PhilBlackson]

Trading for Zion is like buying an as-is exotic car that's no longer in production running extremely low on replacement parts with common problems that's been in a serious accident every year of it's existence with the engine & transmission barely hanging on for dear life and wanting to buy it as your daily driver lol

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Trading for Zion is like buying an as-is exotic car that's no longer in production running extremely low on replacement parts with common problems that's been in a serious accident every year of it's existence with the engine & transmission barely hanging on for dear life and wanting to buy it as your daily driver lol

We have a bus pass.

[faitaccompli]

Trading for Zion is like buying an as-is exotic car that's no longer in production running extremely low on replacement parts with common problems that's been in a serious accident every year of it's existence with the engine & transmission barely hanging on for dear life and wanting to buy it as your daily driver lol

We have a bus pass.

That's an even better example.

The bus is cheap, reliable, dependable, and in good condition.

The opposite of Zion.

[WaltFrazier]

Yes, and rely on Alex Mackechnie to keep him healthy

[TheProfessor]

Smh there is literally no such thing as "tanking for a player" unless you are mathematically inept.

No team...wherever they place in standings...has a greater chance of "getting a player" than 14%.

And if you run a multi-billion dollar franchise in the hopes of a 14% chance....you deserve to lose your job.

All this 'tank for zion' and 'tank for wemby' is children's school yard talk. No serious business person or manager thinks in terms of 14% chances lol.

The whole "tank" thing really is partly a product of internet trolls who are very very dumb. That's not to say all tank ppl are trolls. But all trolls are tank ppl because it's the most alluring stance to take for very dumb ppl who think they are clever.

All that said...I'm kinda satisfied everytime the raptors lose this season. But not because I buy into the "Cooper flagg hype".

I'd estimate there is less than a 20% chance that Flagg ends up the best player of his draft class. Which doesn't mean a team shouldn't pick him #1. It means that NBA drafting is much more inaccurate than tankers typically think it is (despite all the evidence available to them).

So think of it this way in context of "tank for flagg". Let's forget about the odds of coming last in the league. Suppose you do! You have a 14% chance of getting a guy who has a 20% chance of being the best in his draft class.

14% times 20% is 2%.

So if we come in last place...we have a 2% chance of getting Cooper flagg and him becoming the best player from his draft class.

Might as well start playing scratch and win cards.

If the raptors turn things around and start winning games....it is much more likely it will happen because of something none of the tank trolls saw coming. (Like they hated the barnes pick)

No one wants to tank for Flagg, Flagg would be a great blue chip however you have other guys flashing blue chip potential as well. Harper for sure is blue chip. Denim and Kasparas are close to blue chip, and then you have guys like Tre who are showing high-end starter potential and Raw High-ceiling guys like VJ and Ace. Now the higher your pick, and the more you tank the better chance of getting the guy you want.

Also where did you get this 20% number from and how is that relevant? and is Cooper being the best player in the draft even relevant. If Ace develops and becomes a more athletic Jayson tatum, and Harper becomes a bigger better jalen brunson where as Flagg only becomes an Andrei kirelinko; are you really complaining about drafting Andrei Kirelinko?

Tanking is about having the best access odds to acquiring controlled high-end talent because our team has failed to develop talent since OG and Siakam; we have failed to sign any of note in free agency; the last positive impact player traded for outside of Kawhi has been Poetl (which also cost a fortune); the last positive impact player we resigned as been Poetl. The only true championship-level player we have is Barnes and guess what we acquired him through tanking. So now my question is, if this team is failing to develop high-end talent through the later rounds, trade or resign high-impact guys, and fail to attract high-impact guys in free agency, then what alternative is there other than to tank?

[RalphWiggum]

At this point there are zero circumstances I'd want anything to do with Zion. With the new CBA and all of its rules and restrictions adding that trainwreck to our roster would be a disaster. I think think it's 50/50 that he's even in the league come 2027. The safer bet would be to follow him around and get into the restaurant business.

[OhCanada]

You could get him cheaper than that I think. Seen many players leave one franchise and suddenly turn it around. Never liked him going to New Orleans originally. Neither did he. Massive risk but depends on pricing. I'm not trading '25 pick.

Watch on YouTube

;si=FX4fcsfCvcUf55c6

I mean you could send IQ and Poeltl to OKC for a ton of draft picks, send those picks to New Orleans and take the gamble on Zion. Sit him out the year and see if you can get an actual conditioning program going for him like we did for Kawhi. Draft Harper, Tre Johnson, Kasparus or Fears in the draft to replace IQ. If the gamble works on Zion you have the best player in the league. If it doesnt work you've gotten rid of the players that weve been sitting out for extended periods anyways in order to draft one of the best players in the league. You know what I mean? With IQ and Poeltl were never gonna get the highest lottery odds. I think its 100% worth the gamble, because Toronto is the team thart HAS to take gambles in order to bring championship calibur over here. Its the same thing we did with Kawhi and I doubt it would cost as much.