GT: Heat 25-28 vs Raptors 17-38 Feb #21, 2025 - 7:30PM

[Indeed]

that team's success is dependent on Mathurin and other young players. Turner is vastly overrated.

The team's success is dependent on being a tax team (with reasonable value to salary contracts). Pacers adding another star and level to the other tax teams would be in the top 3 conversation.

Not sure I necessarily agree with that...I think a big part of the Pacers' success is their depth.

If the Pacers were to acquire another star they'd likely have to give up an exceptional amount of that depth and then would a small market really come out of pocket to keep completely maxed out Hali, Pascal and whatever 3rd star because they certainly aren't taking a discount because they love the city of Indiana lol....AND they somehow keep Myles Turner who is looking at likely his last big payday??!?

I highly doubt seeing that happen personally and quite frankly I'm interested to see even they can even hang on to Turner, nevermind actually going out an acquiring more.

They are being cheap and don't want to go over the tax.
It is not how they need to give up on depth, it is how much they are willing to go over and being close to the other 3 teams (around 20m, assuming Cleveland will have to pay Mobley)

If they replace Nesmith (11m) and Walker (6m) for someone with 39m, that would be Ingram salary. Trade may not able to do that, but the fact is that they are being cheap without trying to.

[Raps in 4]

Holy crap this tank is cooked. Almost beat the Heat and Yak didn’t even play.

VERY scary times when you think of the cake walk ahead *sigh

Management MUST step in & either tell the doctors to start sitting players for various soreness and/or telling Darko that he's gotta mess around with some bad rotations. Because it's painfully obvious that this team is way better than most of the other teams that are genuinely bottom 5 or even 6-7.

The post-Jimmy Heat are trash. Today's loss was quite reassuring. Scottie has been playing like a bum for weeks. Hopefully he keeps it up.

[Dennis 37]

I do not want Quickley running point for this team for the next 4 years.

I preferred Davion over IQ TBH

When you look at the dollars and the need to get others the ball, is it wasted money to have an expensive PG that can shoot so well, when Davion is a decent 3 point shooter at a low volume and cheaper money, but possible not that different in affect on wins.

[ConSarnit]

I want RJ to develop a midrange and 3 point shot out of nowhere too but there's reality to contend with.

He can't even shoot free throws at a good rate right now.

Barrett has been scoring with his floater / push shot, are you sure you watch all the games?
He is pretty much the only one that developed something within our core, and trying hard on defense. Still want to hate on Barrett?

this is a guy who came over as cap filler and now people have expectations of him being an all star player. can't win with some fans.

RJ has improved (or at least reigned in his bad attempts while here) and deserves some credit but countering an argument by claiming that he’s been scoring with his floater doesn’t help Indeed’s case. Synergy tracks floater data. RJ is shooting 43% on floaters this season. That is not a good number.

[Indeed]

Barrett has been scoring with his floater / push shot, are you sure you watch all the games?
He is pretty much the only one that developed something within our core, and trying hard on defense. Still want to hate on Barrett?

this is a guy who came over as cap filler and now people have expectations of him being an all star player. can't win with some fans.

RJ has improved (or at least reigned in his bad attempts while here) and deserves some credit but countering an argument by claiming that he’s been scoring with his floater doesn’t help Indeed’s case. Synergy tracks floater data. RJ is shooting 43% on floaters this season. That is not a good number.

My argument was he has shown developing a mid range game.
Due to his shooting form, he is unlikely to have a pull up, having a floater / push shot as the bailout against shot blockers that he can't finish at rim would be handy (otherwise, he is an excellent finisher already, not often he will need that floater / push shot).

He is definitely the least to be concerned about with his contract being reasonable at the moment, particularly, we will be over the tax next year.

[PhilBlackson]

The team's success is dependent on being a tax team (with reasonable value to salary contracts). Pacers adding another star and level to the other tax teams would be in the top 3 conversation.

Not sure I necessarily agree with that...I think a big part of the Pacers' success is their depth.

If the Pacers were to acquire another star they'd likely have to give up an exceptional amount of that depth and then would a small market really come out of pocket to keep completely maxed out Hali, Pascal and whatever 3rd star because they certainly aren't taking a discount because they love the city of Indiana lol....AND they somehow keep Myles Turner who is looking at likely his last big payday??!?

I highly doubt seeing that happen personally and quite frankly I'm interested to see even they can even hang on to Turner, nevermind actually going out an acquiring more.

They are being cheap and don't want to go over the tax.
It is not how they need to give up on depth, it is how much they are willing to go over and being close to the other 3 teams (around 20m, assuming Cleveland will have to pay Mobley)

If they replace Nesmith (11m) and Walker (6m) for someone with 39m, that would be Ingram salary. Trade may not able to do that, but the fact is that they are being cheap without trying to.

I think both things can be true, a loss of depth would hurt but also..

Obviously they're limited financially which is where I started the conversation by pointing out that we have to see if they even retain Turner but without him, I think we take their spot in the Conference.

Maybe you're trying to get into a larger conversation about the Pacers' franchise as a whole that I wasn't really trying to dig into. But I yeah I understand that the obvious greatest limitation they have is a financial one as a small market franchise from ultimately being a top 3 team. I just don't see them ever digging deep into the tax just like we've seen from OKC who is clearly FAR more talented (and was obv in the past with KD, Russ & Harden) but in the end they couldn't stomach it and I don't think the Pacers will either. I'm interested to see if they even push the boundary of it with Turner because this is his last chance for a big payday.

But one way or the other I think we'll be on par with their current roster and if they lose Myles, then we take their spot, again assuming health. I also won't be surprised if the FO makes another trade next deadline to further upgrade the roster going into the Playoffs to attempt to make a bit of noise/excitement to help Masai negotiate a big fat contract here or elsewhere.

[Basketball_Jones]

Holy crap this tank is cooked. Almost beat the Heat and Yak didn’t even play.

VERY scary times when you think of the cake walk ahead *sigh

Management MUST step in & either tell the doctors to start sitting players for various soreness and/or telling Darko that he's gotta mess around with some bad rotations. Because it's painfully obvious that this team is way better than most of the other teams that are genuinely bottom 5 or even 6-7.

The post-Jimmy Heat are trash. Today's loss was quite reassuring. Scottie has been playing like a bum for weeks. Hopefully he keeps it up.

Scottie’s bum offensive game and we still probably beat a lot of teams coming up. Kind of a blessing he’s not very good otherwise we’d probably be a play-in team.

[mihaic]

Scottie made sure the tank survived to see another day.

[Thaddy]

here we go defense blah blah again. the guy has potential to be an offensive powerhouse… needs to get back to being an 80% ft shooter but the offensive potential is there. His court vision is improving his 3 point shot is average and he’s elite at finishing inside.

He has no mid range game and doesn't get the line a lot. There's no power to his house lol

What is our alternative? Scottie Friggin Barnes?

RJ is twice the offensive player Barnes is and a much better 2nd option next to BI

Yeah I don't know about Barnes anymore. The 3pt shot is a problem that affects his efficiency. We need him to get better from the corners and from a stationary set point and go from there. Barnes handle is also really bad and he has turnover stints that hurt the team. Other than the mid range did he improve anywhere significantly? Stats wise he's regressed but I can understand he's been injured and trying new things.

[Thaddy]

He has no mid range game and doesn't get the line a lot. There's no power to his house lol

RJ has too many holes in his offensive game to be a 'powerhouse'

Did you not read the word potential? It’s hilarious because as I already said there are tons of people here hyping up players with less skill based on their youth and potential but for some reason have already determined a more talented player has too many holes and cannot improve

If he can be a defacto number 1 option that would be great, maybe he grows into that who knows.

As of now he has issues being a primary creator. It's a big problem because he is a negative defensive player. But you are right he has some potential and growing left to do.

Most likely he'll improve his three point shot a bit to handle more volume and the rest stays the same. Maybe his FT shooting improves as well but it's never been great or what you'd expect for a SG.

Optimally Barrett improves his mid range creation, his form would make this hard. Similar to Lonzo Ball he has a weird gather and release that hurts the fluidity in a mid range game. Then ideally he finds a way to get more deflections, rebound better, and provide help defense.

[Indeed]

Not sure I necessarily agree with that...I think a big part of the Pacers' success is their depth.

If the Pacers were to acquire another star they'd likely have to give up an exceptional amount of that depth and then would a small market really come out of pocket to keep completely maxed out Hali, Pascal and whatever 3rd star because they certainly aren't taking a discount because they love the city of Indiana lol....AND they somehow keep Myles Turner who is looking at likely his last big payday??!?

I highly doubt seeing that happen personally and quite frankly I'm interested to see even they can even hang on to Turner, nevermind actually going out an acquiring more.

They are being cheap and don't want to go over the tax.
It is not how they need to give up on depth, it is how much they are willing to go over and being close to the other 3 teams (around 20m, assuming Cleveland will have to pay Mobley)

If they replace Nesmith (11m) and Walker (6m) for someone with 39m, that would be Ingram salary. Trade may not able to do that, but the fact is that they are being cheap without trying to.

I think both things can be true, a loss of depth would hurt but also..

Obviously they're limited financially which is where I started the conversation by pointing out that we have to see if they even retain Turner but without him, I think we take their spot in the Conference.

Maybe you're trying to get into a larger conversation about the Pacers' franchise as a whole that I wasn't really trying to dig into. But I yeah I understand that the obvious greatest limitation they have is a financial one as a small market franchise from ultimately being a top 3 team. I just don't see them ever digging deep into the tax just like we've seen from OKC who is clearly FAR more talented (and was obv in the past with KD, Russ & Harden) but in the end they couldn't stomach it and I don't think the Pacers will either. I'm interested to see if they even push the boundary of it with Turner because this is his last chance for a big payday.

But one way or the other I think we'll be on par with their current roster and if they lose Myles, then we take their spot, again assuming health. I also won't be surprised if the FO makes another trade next deadline to further upgrade the roster going into the Playoffs to attempt to make a bit of noise/excitement to help Masai negotiate a big fat contract here or elsewhere.

I don't see how we are taking their spot. I don't see Ingram as the savior, and at best, he is just replacing Siakam production (perhaps lower TS% as well). Even we got better depth (and a high 1st who unlikely to be a starter level right away), I am unsure we are above .500. Worse, we are over the tax for a middle of the league team.

Unless Barnes improves (by a lot), which he hasn't shown much over the last few years, I don't think this team can go anywhere with so much salary tired up on him. Or you can remind me what he improved to above league average.

[PhilBlackson]

VERY scary times when you think of the cake walk ahead *sigh

Management MUST step in & either tell the doctors to start sitting players for various soreness and/or telling Darko that he's gotta mess around with some bad rotations. Because it's painfully obvious that this team is way better than most of the other teams that are genuinely bottom 5 or even 6-7.

The post-Jimmy Heat are trash. Today's loss was quite reassuring. Scottie has been playing like a bum for weeks. Hopefully he keeps it up.

Scottie’s bum offensive game and we still probably beat a lot of teams coming up. Kind of a blessing he’s not very good otherwise we’d probably be a play-in team.

I think this has been a bad lil stretch but Scottie was having some good games not too long ago where people claiming he was sonning Giannis and Paolo sooooo...gotta take some of the good with the bad.

I just think a lot of ya'll are frustrated due to the unrealistic expectation that he will become a superstar partially the fault of the FO marketing him as such. But really what are they to do?! He was their most talented prospect on the roster and the previous fake core was not financially sensible so they needed something to feed the fans while they transition to the next version of the team.

But Scottie will become a damn good player in the end. He's way ahead of DeMar and Pascal at the same age but no one is being patient with him because again they've been sold that he's gonna be this "superstar" player. When in reality I think this season has really cemented that Scottie is not gonna be that 1st option level star hence why Ingram was brought in to take on that scoring load.

It's obvious now that Scottie is not gonna become that mini Giannis/Jokic hybrid everyone dreamed of lol BUT he still become DAMN good. Right now he's looking more like Pippen/Draymond hybrid (but physically bigger than either) which is an amazing outcome for a 4th overall and a player capable of being APART of a championship core but not the focal point of one.

[nestea]

The cold truth is that this team is better with Scottie on the bench. People need to stop taking their frustrations out on the complementary players getting paid complementary money. This season sucks because Scottie has been completely exposed.

So what do you do with him?

[Thaddy]

The cold truth is that this team is better with Scottie on the bench. People need to stop taking their frustrations out on the complementary players getting paid complementary money. This season sucks because Scottie has been completely exposed.

So what do you do with him?

Barnes is a plus player by multiple stats. The team is better with him on the floor because beyond all the criticism from me or anyone. He's great at defense and getting the ball rolling in transition.

[Kingsway_fan]

The cold truth is that this team is better with Scottie on the bench. People need to stop taking their frustrations out on the complementary players getting paid complementary money. This season sucks because Scottie has been completely exposed.

So what do you do with him?

Bold move is to package him in a big trade but that's risky for management... They will wait until next season to see how the starting five work as a unit, and what that 1st pick turns first, imo.

Has he already peaked?... Or is he just mentally 'in tank mode' this year knowing what management is trying to do?...

If he has played consistently well this year, we would be in the playoffs right now..

[Kingsway_fan]

Seriously, had Boucher been given 30+ minutes this game, or in general... we win lots of games...

[TeamDisgruntled]

I want RJ to develop a midrange and 3 point shot out of nowhere too but there's reality to contend with.

He can't even shoot free throws at a good rate right now.

Barrett has been scoring with his floater / push shot, are you sure you watch all the games?
He is pretty much the only one that developed something within our core, and trying hard on defense. Still want to hate on Barrett?

A floater or push shot is not midrange or long range or a free throw. I didn't question his paint game.

Is pointing out reality hating on someone now? Sheesh.

I mean for the second consecutive season he’s essentially shooting 36% from 3. Considering how well he gets to the basket, I’ll take 36%. Hopefully he can maintain or even improve that slightly going forward into future seasons. It would be nice if he could get that FT% back to the mid 70’s where you’d imagine someone like him should be. He gets to the line pretty consistently, so it’s going to be important.

[TeamDisgruntled]

The post-Jimmy Heat are trash. Today's loss was quite reassuring. Scottie has been playing like a bum for weeks. Hopefully he keeps it up.

Scottie’s bum offensive game and we still probably beat a lot of teams coming up. Kind of a blessing he’s not very good otherwise we’d probably be a play-in team.

I think this has been a bad lil stretch but Scottie was having some good games not too long ago where people claiming he was sonning Giannis and Paolo sooooo...gotta take some of the good with the bad.

I just think a lot of ya'll are frustrated due to the unrealistic expectation that he will become a superstar partially the fault of the FO marketing him as such. But really what are they to do?! He was their most talented prospect on the roster and the previous fake core was not financially sensible so they needed something to feed the fans while they transition to the next version of the team.

But Scottie will become a damn good player in the end. He's way ahead of DeMar and Pascal at the same age but no one is being patient with him because again they've been sold that he's gonna be this "superstar" player. When in reality I think this season has really cemented that Scottie is not gonna be that 1st option level star hence why Ingram was brought in to take on that scoring load.

It's obvious now that Scottie is not gonna become that mini Giannis/Jokic hybrid everyone dreamed of lol BUT he still become DAMN good. Right now he's looking more like Pippen/Draymond hybrid (but physically bigger than either) which is an amazing outcome for a 4th overall and a player capable of being APART of a championship core but not the focal point of one.

I know it’s an incredibly cliche thing to say in 2025, but this team will eventually need a stretch 5. I’ll give it another season of trial and error but if Scottie is going to be a sub 30% 3pt shooter, he may just have to cut it out of his game for his own betterment.(ala Giannis this season)

Outside of one really good stretch pre all-star last year, it’s been ugly.. and of late the bricks have been flying. I wouldn't say there’s zero hope but it looks bleak, in order to give Scottie room to operate we’re going to need someone who can maintain spacing on the court with him.

I love what Poeltl brings but that obviously isn’t him. So I would give it one more season with Ingram injected into this starting 5 and hope for the best. If it’s another sub par 3pt shooting season, you gotta look at changing up the 5 spot.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Barrett has been scoring with his floater / push shot, are you sure you watch all the games?
He is pretty much the only one that developed something within our core, and trying hard on defense. Still want to hate on Barrett?

this is a guy who came over as cap filler and now people have expectations of him being an all star player. can't win with some fans.

RJ has improved (or at least reigned in his bad attempts while here) and deserves some credit but countering an argument by claiming that he’s been scoring with his floater doesn’t help Indeed’s case. Synergy tracks floater data. RJ is shooting 43% on floaters this season. That is not a good number.

What does it tell you is a good number on a floater? I was always of the impression that that's an inefficient shot.