Update: It is time to trade Scottie Barnes before it's too late!

[PushDaRock]

I don’t advocate trading Scottie, but It’s easier to get a player that gives you 80% of what Barnes does and other players to plug in holes than land a superstar #1 option to play with Barnes while keeping a team around them.

Paying a Max player that isn't really a Max player is pretty difficult to overcome for any team trying to win.

I would say Scottie's defense is worth near max alone. If he provides same level of D as last year with modestly better offensive efficiency then he's absolutely a max player.

Is he a better defender than Herb Jones? I would say no.

So, I can't really make that leap to where he can be worth the max on defense alone when someone who defends better than him isn't making close to that.

[PushDaRock]

I don’t advocate trading Scottie, but It’s easier to get a player that gives you 80% of what Barnes does and other players to plug in holes than land a superstar #1 option to play with Barnes while keeping a team around them.

Paying a Max player that isn't really a Max player is pretty difficult to overcome for any team trying to win.

I see it other way, He's a super max player, only getting paid the max.
The reason he didn't get there last year is how difficult the were making it on him.

At the same time, he's delayed in his development because of his first 2 years, and the more dynamic the player is, the longer it takes to develop, which he's been rotating through.

Also do people really not want to see a what a Scottie/CMB pairing looks like on defence.

Scottie/CMB/Ingram trio overall?

The more dynamic the player the longer it takes to develop? Examples?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

If he just doesn't work on his game in the off season, that doesn't explain why he was better than expected in year 1 and 3 while worse than expected in year 2 and 4.

He got more touches, it's that simple.

He had his highest USG rate last season, so that doesn't make sense?

Yeah it does, that's why I used the word plateaued. You can't give him more minutes and expect more production going forward. He's not growing. He's skill capped.

[PushDaRock]

He got more touches, it's that simple.

He had his highest USG rate last season, so that doesn't make sense?

Yeah it does, that's why I used the word plateaued. You can't give him more minutes and expect more production going forward. He's not growing. He's skill capped.

But, he had his biggest jump in USG in year 3 from year 2 and had his best season. At least for that one year he improved no?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

He had his highest USG rate last season, so that doesn't make sense?

Yeah it does, that's why I used the word plateaued. You can't give him more minutes and expect more production going forward. He's not growing. He's skill capped.

But, he had his biggest jump in USG in year 3 from year 2 and had his best season. At least for that one year he improved no?

He wasn't able to hold it. That and they cleared everybody out, made him the first option.

Going forward, he's got to put the work in. That's what we're not seeing. Effort.

[bballsparkin]

He wasn't able to hold it. That and they cleared everybody out, made him the first option.

Going forward, he's got to put the work in. That's what we're not seeing. Effort.

Are you basing this not putting in the work thing due to the roller blade video of Scottie?

I mean I don't know if he's putting in the effort or not. I hope he is. He desperately needs some form of mid range game. Was DeMar trying on defence or did he not care? Dunno.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

He wasn't able to hold it. That and they cleared everybody out, made him the first option.

Going forward, he's got to put the work in. That's what we're not seeing. Effort.

Are you basing this not putting in the work thing due to the roller blade video of Scottie?

I mean I don't know if he's putting in the effort or not. I hope he is. He desperately needs some form of mid range game. Was DeMar trying on defence or did he not care? Dunno.

I mean, partially. Really it's based off of all his off seasons. Ever notice we don't see him working out much?

[bballsparkin]

He wasn't able to hold it. That and they cleared everybody out, made him the first option.

Going forward, he's got to put the work in. That's what we're not seeing. Effort.

Are you basing this not putting in the work thing due to the roller blade video of Scottie?

I mean I don't know if he's putting in the effort or not. I hope he is. He desperately needs some form of mid range game. Was DeMar trying on defence or did he not care? Dunno.

I mean, partially. Really it's based off of all his off seasons. Ever notice we don't see him working out much?

I don't really pay attention to the off season stuff. I've read comments about his trainer. It's a big season for Scottie. Time for him to shine so we shall see.

[M3tro]

I'd be open to trading him for a star guard if CMB proves he can fill those shoes.

[PushDaRock]

Yeah it does, that's why I used the word plateaued. You can't give him more minutes and expect more production going forward. He's not growing. He's skill capped.

But, he had his biggest jump in USG in year 3 from year 2 and had his best season. At least for that one year he improved no?

He wasn't able to hold it. That and they cleared everybody out, made him the first option.

Going forward, he's got to put the work in. That's what we're not seeing. Effort.

The point is you're saying he doesn't put in any work in the offseason but there's been years where he has come into the season improved from the offseason (rookie year and year 3). Nobody really knows how hard he actually works and endless reps doesn't mean you automatically become a good shooter. Curry isn't Curry only because he takes a ton of shots and works hard.

[Boogie!]

scottie barnes: max player, hasn't developed since year 2, limited offensive game, horrible scoring efficiency
trade suggested: "stupid idea, you're nuts, ban the poster."

norman powell: role player money, elite shooter and offensive efficiency which he's shown for the last 3 years, in the best year of his career, finally breaks out as a starter and has great chemistry next to "core"
trade suggested: MEDIA IS OUTRIGHT TALKING ABOUT HOW IT'S A FOREGONE CONCLUSION, fans say trade him he's not worth the money in free agency, one dimensional, blame all the raptors defensive weakness solely on him, everyone can't wait to get rid of him.

the above norman powell example can also apply to siakam in some ways.

you guys are all sheeple that just continuously fall for the media talking points and general brainwashing from the public. can't think for yourselves. as soon as the media starts pushing the anti-scottie propaganda, watch how many of you start agreeing with the "haters." again always so behind the times and confidently arrogant.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

But, he had his biggest jump in USG in year 3 from year 2 and had his best season. At least for that one year he improved no?

He wasn't able to hold it. That and they cleared everybody out, made him the first option.

Going forward, he's got to put the work in. That's what we're not seeing. Effort.

The point is you're saying he doesn't put in any work in the offseason but there's been years where he has come into the season improved from the offseason (rookie year and year 3). Nobody really knows how hard he actually works and endless reps doesn't mean you automatically become a good shooter. Curry isn't Curry only because he takes a ton of shots and works hard.

Rookie year, he's just the most NBA ready and he gets a ton of minutes. Year three, they clear out people. It's not meaningful growth that stays.

Growth is his game developing, I don't see that. He's not out there balling like Fred or Siakam or Derozan etc. Maybe he does that in private, but we can't see the results. I'm just not expecting growth any more at this point. It's a desire thing, he's not after it.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

He wasn't able to hold it. That and they cleared everybody out, made him the first option.

Going forward, he's got to put the work in. That's what we're not seeing. Effort.

The point is you're saying he doesn't put in any work in the offseason but there's been years where he has come into the season improved from the offseason (rookie year and year 3). Nobody really knows how hard he actually works and endless reps doesn't mean you automatically become a good shooter. Curry isn't Curry only because he takes a ton of shots and works hard.

Rookie year, he's just the most NBA ready and he gets a ton of minutes. Year three, they clear out people. It's not meaningful growth that stays.

Growth is his game developing, I don't see that. He's not out there balling like Fred or Siakam or Derozan etc. Maybe he does that in private, but we can't see the results. I'm just not expecting growth any more at this point. It's a desire thing, he's not after it.

Also, Curry is indeed one of the hardest workers.

[bballsparkin]

scottie barnes: max player, hasn't developed since year 2, limited offensive game, horrible scoring efficiency
trade suggested: "stupid idea, you're nuts, ban the poster."

What trade was suggested? Specifics, with who? Otherwise it's a meaningless sentence. I would never call you nuts. We ain't gonna survive unless, we get a little crazy

norman powell: role player money, elite shooter and offensive efficiency which he's shown for the last 3 years, in the best year of his career, finally breaks out as a starter and has great chemistry next to "core"
trade suggested: MEDIA IS OUTRIGHT TALKING ABOUT HOW IT'S A FOREGONE CONCLUSION, fans say trade him he's not worth the money in free agency, one dimensional, blame all the raptors defensive weakness solely on him, everyone can't wait to get rid of him.

In the swap, the Clippers deal Norman Powell to the Miami Heat, the Utah Jazz send John Collins to the Clippers and the Heat send Kevin Love, Kyle Anderson and a future Draft pick to Utah.

Not that big a deal. Most of us liked Norm. He's not a game changer. Sure, if you wanted a more competitive team he would have been better than taking a flyer on Gary. Congrats,... I guess.


the above norman powell example can also apply to siakam in some ways.

you guys are all sheeple that just continuously fall for the media talking points and general brainwashing from the public. can't think for yourselves. as soon as the media starts pushing the anti-scottie propaganda, watch how many of you start agreeing with the "haters." again always so behind the times and confidently arrogant.

you guys is a bad approach to posting online me thinks. have a nice summer!

[PushDaRock]

He wasn't able to hold it. That and they cleared everybody out, made him the first option.

Going forward, he's got to put the work in. That's what we're not seeing. Effort.

The point is you're saying he doesn't put in any work in the offseason but there's been years where he has come into the season improved from the offseason (rookie year and year 3). Nobody really knows how hard he actually works and endless reps doesn't mean you automatically become a good shooter. Curry isn't Curry only because he takes a ton of shots and works hard.

Rookie year, he's just the most NBA ready and he gets a ton of minutes. Year three, they clear out people. It's not meaningful growth that stays.

Growth is his game developing, I don't see that. He's not out there balling like Fred or Siakam or Derozan etc. Maybe he does that in private, but we can't see the results. I'm just not expecting growth any more at this point. It's a desire thing, he's not after it.

Why was he NBA ready though when he wasn't a star in college and every projection for him was as more of a long term project?

[S.W.A.N]

Paying a Max player that isn't really a Max player is pretty difficult to overcome for any team trying to win.

I would say Scottie's defense is worth near max alone. If he provides same level of D as last year with modestly better offensive efficiency then he's absolutely a max player.

Is he a better defender than Herb Jones? I would say no.

So, I can't really make that leap to where he can be worth the max on defense alone when someone who defends better than him isn't making close to that.

herb jones being unpaid isn't a good argument.

Also Herb isn't better. He's just the better on ball defender. Scottie has same number of stocks per game, and higher rebounds. I would put them in same tier defensively. While Scottie is clearly a tier tier overall player.

Ironically I'd say OG is in same tier defensively. And is in same pay tier.

People need to chill. Scottie is an impact player and a cornerstone of the team.

[CPT]

I would say Scottie's defense is worth near max alone. If he provides same level of D as last year with modestly better offensive efficiency then he's absolutely a max player.

Is he a better defender than Herb Jones? I would say no.

So, I can't really make that leap to where he can be worth the max on defense alone when someone who defends better than him isn't making close to that.

herb jones being unpaid isn't a good arguement

Sure it is. I mean, depending on what part of the argument you're going with.

Defense-first guys don't typically get maxed. You just don't need to pay as much for defensive guys.

He's also never been in serious discussion for an all-defensive team spot. A few votes here and there, but none recently AFAIK.

I still don't think it's some disaster of a contract. He was basically a lock for a max rookie extension from ROTY and the All-Star selection. He's got his work cut out for him to live up to it though.

He will need to be an all-defensive team level guy who still gives you something on offense. I think that's attainable, it just won't look like the typical two-way/3&D player. I think we're all hoping a healthier, more talented team frees him up on both sides of the ball.

[S.W.A.N]

Is he a better defender than Herb Jones? I would say no.

So, I can't really make that leap to where he can be worth the max on defense alone when someone who defends better than him isn't making close to that.

herb jones being unpaid isn't a good arguement

Sure it is. I mean, depending on what part of the argument you're going with.

Defense-first guys don't typically get maxed. You just don't need to pay as much for defensive guys.

He's also never been in serious discussion for an all-defensive team spot. A few votes here and there, but none recently AFAIK.

I still don't think it's some disaster of a contract. He was basically a lock for a max rookie extension from ROTY and the All-Star selection. He's got his work cut out for him to live up to it though.

He will need to be an all-defensive team level guy who still gives you something on offense. I think that's attainable, it just won't look like the typical two-way/3&D player. I think we're all hoping a healthier, more talented team frees him up on both sides of the ball.

so i edited my post after you replied. But basically I think I don't disagree with you.

I see scottie as an all-defense level guy with above average offense (passing being his true plus skill). And yes I think freeing him up, asking him to do less will make him better.

I think ideally he's our best defender and 3rd option on offense. Basically our own Draymond. Or bigger better passing worse shooting OG.

I can't wait to see the wierd Scottie/CMB lineups that are absolute defensive monsters

[Ado05]

Hopefully the Bucks really like him lol

[Los_29]

If Masai was still here, maybe Giannis was a possibility. But with Masai gone, Giannis seems to have locked in on the Knicks. Just waiting for that deal to happen once the trade restrictions on Turner are lifted. I see Giannis, Turner & Kuzma for Towns, OG & Robinson + picks probably happening.

Just saw this article got posted: https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/282232/Knicks-Made-Jalen-Brunson-Untouchable-In-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-Talks-With-Bucks

In terms of Barnes, I say keep developing him, trying to build his value, and wait for the day SGA demands a trade out, which is coming. OKC's last chance at a title is this season. After this season, when the extensions for JDub & Chet kick in, they need to let the heart of their D go in Dort & IH. Once they start to fall off, I could see SGA demanding a trade home. By that time the US might have gone fully MAGA crazy.

Yeah, whatever will SGA do when he only has 2 other all-star level players left to play with (as well as the biggest draft cache in NBA history)?

Why would SGA ever leave OKC in the next few years? Here is their roster/asset base even if IH and Dort leave

SGA
JDub
Chet
Wallace
Caruso

Mitchell
Topic

Not only do they have a better core than us, they have twice as many draft assets. It’s ridiculous to think OKC’s last chance at a title is this year. They can dodge the 2nd apron in ‘26/27 by getting off of Joe and Wiggins which would allow them to keep both Dort and IH.

That's not that impressive especially considering we have no idea what kind of player Topic will be. Not sure the value of their FRPs either.

WIth that said, SGA is in a way better situation there in OKC than he would here. There is chemistry and familiarity. He also seems to like OKC.