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OakleyDokely wrote:Official combine measurements
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro?SeasonYear=2023-24&dir=D&sort=HEIGHT_WO_SHOES
REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Kevin Willis wrote:Indeed wrote:
Not sure I agree with this.
There are multiple factors to be a good defender, such as quick hands, quick feet, wingspan, defensive mindset, etc.
However, wingspan still provides better ground coverage, contesting shot, recovery, etc.
As for game play footage, it is hard to apply that to "potential", otherwise, this year first overall pick would be someone with better performance instead of potential.
Agree. Multiple factors impact great defenders, that's why Marc was able to win the award. However we've seen how disruptive a team full of players with long wingspans can be.
Players aren't disruptive because they have long wingspans. FVV has one of the shortest wingspans in the league and he's disruptive. Being disruptive is a mentality with anticipatory skills and a willingness to have active hands. Having a long wingspan just allows you to be slightly more disruptive if you have that mentality when an extra few inches happens to make a difference in game situations, which isn't often.
I honestly could care less what a player's wingspan is. If they're a good defender or shot maker, it'll show up in the stats and tape, not in their listed wingspan.
MainEvent wrote:George/Sensabaugh/NSJ and others didn't get measured? are they doing more today?
Dalek wrote:
6’3.25” (without shoes)
190.8 lbs
6’7” wingspan
SG Max Vertical Reach
5. Amari Bailey/Kobe Bufkin: 11’6.5”
SG Standing Vertical Reach
5. Amari Bailey/Brandin Podziemski: 11’0”
The guy has 500,000 followers on instagram but comes across as humble and hardworking. I'd put him right there with any of the other combos because once he figures out how to harness his athleticism and his jumper - he becomes interesting. HIs defense is already going to be solid coming in (2.5 STL% and a 1.4 BLK%)
Psubs wrote:OakleyDokely wrote:Leonard Miller tested out well. He's going to playing at 6'10+ in shoes with a 7'2 wingspan. He doesn't turn 20 until the end of the year. He displayed very nice growth from last year to this year. He was very efficient offensively, he shot well from the line and flashed a 3pt shot. He also has nice defensive positional versatility potential. I think he's going in the lottery.
Isn't he like Chris Bosh lite?
OakleyDokely wrote:Whitehead measured very well. Close to 6'6 without shoes and a 6'10+ wingspan. That size, plus the fact he shot 40+ % from 3 will generate interest.
WuTang_OG wrote:Amari had a tough start to the year but came on towards the end and had a good showing in the tournament. He's a first round talent for sure and if a team gets him in the 20's thats a great value play. Brooklyn has 21, 22 - I'd use one on him.
Kevin Willis wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Kevin Willis wrote:
FVV is an exception. IF he had a longer wingspan he would be a huge pest and All-NBA defender. As stated a lot of factors go into being a good defender and wingspan is an important one. That's why I acknowledged Marc Gasol as an excellent defender. Typically guys like OG, Smart (6'9" inches), Green (7'1" inches), JJ (7'5"), Mobley (7'4"), Holiday (6'7"), White (6'8), Bam (7'3"), Lopez (7'5") are on all-defensive teams with a combination of motor and wingspan.
It has nothing to do with wingspan. If each of those players had 3 inches less on their wingspan they would still be in the same class of defender. What would we be talking about like .2 or .3 less stocks per 36?
Nobody here has even argued for wingspan and its effect on shot release point which is weird.
Back to my point, you do not look at a guy who had 3-4 stocks per 36 in college and shy away from taking him because his wingspan is 3 inches shorter than some imaginary magic number. Stats and footage, period. The likelihood is that players putting up those kind of stats have adequate to great wingspans. If they don't, it should not be a deterrent in any regard.
You're doing the moving goal post thing again. We were talking wingspan, I showed that the majority of All-NBA defenders have wingspan of +3 inches or more to their height. That's not a discussion, it is what it is. I also said they have a combination of motor and wingspan which addresses your claim that they will still be a good defender with shorter arms which I am not disputing. They might still be a good defender but not an All-NBA defender.
Somebody did talk about wingspan impacting release point but that hurts your argument more than anything so I was just being polite and leaving out subjective.
Then you switched to stock which is fine but I wasn't talking about stock. If you want to talk about that I can, I think stock is very important. However some players with high stock gamble too much so you have to take that into context. I believe wingspan would help a player block shots and intercept passes. I am not sure what your point here is actually. FVV stock is not that high because he doesn't block shots. Caruso is even worse. Actually going over the NCAA stats of the All-Defensive NBA teams they generally have a stock over 2.0 per 36 but nothing like 3 or 4. Players with that high of a stock tend to not make these teams, probably because they gamble too much but that's a different argument.
I don't feel like discussing this anymore - you win, let's move on.
Dalek wrote:
6’3.25” (without shoes)
190.8 lbs
6’7” wingspan
SG Max Vertical Reach
5. Amari Bailey/Kobe Bufkin: 11’6.5”
SG Standing Vertical Reach
5. Amari Bailey/Brandin Podziemski: 11’0”
The guy has 500,000 followers on instagram but comes across as humble and hardworking. I'd put him right there with any of the other combos because once he figures out how to harness his athleticism and his jumper - he becomes interesting. HIs defense is already going to be solid coming in (2.5 STL% and a 1.4 BLK%)
gbball wrote:REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Kevin Willis wrote:
Agree. Multiple factors impact great defenders, that's why Marc was able to win the award. However we've seen how disruptive a team full of players with long wingspans can be.
Players aren't disruptive because they have long wingspans. FVV has one of the shortest wingspans in the league and he's disruptive. Being disruptive is a mentality with anticipatory skills and a willingness to have active hands. Having a long wingspan just allows you to be slightly more disruptive if you have that mentality when an extra few inches happens to make a difference in game situations, which isn't often.
I honestly could care less what a player's wingspan is. If they're a good defender or shot maker, it'll show up in the stats and tape, not in their listed wingspan.
Agreed.
Look at guys like Jimmy, who doesn't have a crazy wingspan. I think having too long arms can actually dis-incentivize a player from maxing out their athleticism and they might rely on reaching vs using their feet on defense because it worked before they got to the NBA.
When your arms are long you don't have to do as much jump training. Guys with shorter wingspans have to use their legs more and train harder for the edge.
In a perfect world if two prospects have the same drive, talent and athleticism, you choose the guy with better length, but I think more physical tools can promote taking a shorter path through training while getting similar results, thereby resulting in worse intangibles.
That's my main issue with the wingspan over everything approach. How a person uses their tools is more important than just having them.
Dalek wrote:
6’3.25” (without shoes)
190.8 lbs
6’7” wingspan
SG Max Vertical Reach
5. Amari Bailey/Kobe Bufkin: 11’6.5”
SG Standing Vertical Reach
5. Amari Bailey/Brandin Podziemski: 11’0”
The guy has 500,000 followers on instagram but comes across as humble and hardworking. I'd put him right there with any of the other combos because once he figures out how to harness his athleticism and his jumper - he becomes interesting. HIs defense is already going to be solid coming in (2.5 STL% and a 1.4 BLK%)
