2023 Draft Discussion Part 4

[Psubs]

Masai has no good young prospects. Other than Barnes.

I have to disagree. I think OG is still a prospect. Achiuwa is a good prospect (people here being patient?). Banton is a good prospect (I compare him to Powell, late 1st and all he needs is shooting).

If you are looking for star power, it usually comes from trades.
Keep in mind that the players lead us to championship team has largely due to Lowry (and Leonard), who we got it from trade. Those we draft all got traded for the championship pieces: DeRozan (worth the same as Leonard?), Ross, Valanciunas, Wright, Poeltl. Who left on that championship that we drafted? Siakam (low 1st), OG (low 1st), Powell (2nd), VanVleet (undraft)?

OG is the only other prospect who I think is good, with great value. TBH I don't know what Precious value would be, but i'm not optimistic about it. No one cares about Banton lol, or Koloko.

It's not even star power i'm looking for, it's PRODUCTION! Banton is a zero right now, Koloko flashed, but so far away still.

The best trade I can think of is Precious to OKC for Isaiah Joe. Shooter off the bench!!! If OKC drafts anything from PG-SF, call them up as they took BPA and have a logjam.

[Tortiglioni]

Bobby will probably trade the pick for Udonis Haslem.

[Morse Code]

So again, praise Colangelo for supplying Masai with the prospects to trade to win the title. Along with those 'prospects' we had to send draft capital to win that title.

Criticize Masai for not having young prospects when the draft capital was sent out to win the title. Since then we've drafted,

Flynn (29th pick)
Barnes (4th pick)
Koloko (33rd pick)

and now we have the 13th pick.

Then he should have pivoted out of making the play-ins. Simple as that. Or make moves with the players you have, instead of being complacent and doing nothing. Not addressing the shooting or the bench for years is a travesty.

I'm done. You'll always spin it as Masai/Bobby are going what they can/good job. When the reality is they're attached to flawed core. We'll see in time Duff.

And I'm looking for the criticism of them to be logical and based in facts. And not using double talk to praise a past regime for the exact thing this current regime is being criticized for.

They aren't infallible. I don't like the limited protections on the Poeltl pick, I don't love 3 major free agents at once. I don't love the lack of focus on shooting. I criticize them plenty.

Here's a fact. The team sucks. We've lost a lot of games over the last few years, and have no talent in the pipeline. None. They've failed

Sent from my LG-H873 using RealGM mobile app

[Kevin Willis]

Watch on YouTube

has us selecting GG at 13

Not impressed with a bunch of his picks. He needs to do better.

[DG88]

Does tanking work? What's the evidence?

In the extreme sense of scorched earth tanking probably doesn't work. But whether it's strategic or not it's an avenue to cheap talent that you can build with. From there as you develop that talent you then add pieces through trade, free agency or more draft picks. The biggest thing is getting the piece to build with.

Sure and ignoring that Poeltl and Koloko are not pieces to 'build' with is a little disingenuous.

Yes we dealt a late first and got an early second. So we did get a young prospect in Koloko. Yes we did deal a 1st rounder. But we also got a starting center in the prime of his career that we will most likely extend.

Should have been more specific on piece to build with. I meant a foundational piece to build with. I like Poeltl as a starting C and Koloko as a building block for the future. I just didn't like the price that was paid, but that's my opinion and Masai has a different one.

[niQ]

We are definitely picking someone who nobody expects and is projected to go 20-45 in draft boards. I can’t think of a time Masai picked the consensus/projected guy. Even Scottie was a shock pick over Suggs at the time.

The funny thing is, about a month ago, I mentioned Coulibaly as a potential riser in the draft based on his upside. He was regularly ranked in the 2nd round. He was someone I thought Raps FO would like if we didn't draft based on consensus.

He's risen a bit (late 1st round in most mocks) and is currently 15th on The Ringer's Mock and 17th on nbadraft.net. By draft time, it might not even be considered a reach anymore.

[Kevin Willis]

Then he should have pivoted out of making the play-ins. Simple as that. Or make moves with the players you have, instead of being complacent and doing nothing. Not addressing the shooting or the bench for years is a travesty.

I'm done. You'll always spin it as Masai/Bobby are going what they can/good job. When the reality is they're attached to flawed core. We'll see in time Duff.

And I'm looking for the criticism of them to be logical and based in facts. And not using double talk to praise a past regime for the exact thing this current regime is being criticized for.

They aren't infallible. I don't like the limited protections on the Poeltl pick, I don't love 3 major free agents at once. I don't love the lack of focus on shooting. I criticize them plenty.

Here's a fact. The team sucks. We've lost a lot of games over the last few years, and have no talent in the pipeline. None. They've failed

Sent from my LG-H873 using RealGM mobile app

Duffman let it go. Not worth discussing.

[Indeed]

Masai has no good young prospects. Other than Barnes.

I have to disagree. I think OG is still a prospect. Achiuwa is a good prospect (people here being patient?). Banton is a good prospect (I compare him to Powell, late 1st and all he needs is shooting).

If you are looking for star power, it usually comes from trades.
Keep in mind that the players lead us to championship team has largely due to Lowry (and Leonard), who we got it from trade. Those we draft all got traded for the championship pieces: DeRozan (worth the same as Leonard?), Ross, Valanciunas, Wright, Poeltl. Who left on that championship that we drafted? Siakam (low 1st), OG (low 1st), Powell (2nd), VanVleet (undraft)?

OG is the only other prospect ( not even sure he's a prospect TBH) who I think is good, with great value. TBH I don't know what Precious value would be, but i'm not optimistic about it. No one cares about Banton lol, or Koloko.

It's not even star power i'm looking for, it's PRODUCTION! Banton is a zero right now, Koloko flashed, but so far away still.

Clearly you show no patient and think it is only about PRODUCTION.
I don't get why you think Barnes is good, he couldn't defend nor create against starter at his level, and you think he has PRODUCTION. Clearly blindsided to me.

The reason we were so bad last year has a lot to do with Barnes lol.

[God Squad]

I have to disagree. I think OG is still a prospect. Achiuwa is a good prospect (people here being patient?). Banton is a good prospect (I compare him to Powell, late 1st and all he needs is shooting).

If you are looking for star power, it usually comes from trades.
Keep in mind that the players lead us to championship team has largely due to Lowry (and Leonard), who we got it from trade. Those we draft all got traded for the championship pieces: DeRozan (worth the same as Leonard?), Ross, Valanciunas, Wright, Poeltl. Who left on that championship that we drafted? Siakam (low 1st), OG (low 1st), Powell (2nd), VanVleet (undraft)?

OG is the only other prospect ( not even sure he's a prospect TBH) who I think is good, with great value. TBH I don't know what Precious value would be, but i'm not optimistic about it. No one cares about Banton lol, or Koloko.

It's not even star power i'm looking for, it's PRODUCTION! Banton is a zero right now, Koloko flashed, but so far away still.

Clearly you show no patient and think it is only about PRODUCTION.
I don't get why you think Barnes is good, he couldn't defend nor create against starter at his level, and you think he has PRODUCTION. Clearly blindsided to me.

The reason we were so bad last year has a lot to do with Barnes lol.

Banton is a zero atm and so is Koloko. That's a fact. Of course Barnes had crappy moments (defense/shooting/Aggression). But he flashed more than both those scrubs combined.

[InfraRedshaw]

OG is the only other prospect ( not even sure he's a prospect TBH) who I think is good, with great value. TBH I don't know what Precious value would be, but i'm not optimistic about it. No one cares about Banton lol, or Koloko.

It's not even star power i'm looking for, it's PRODUCTION! Banton is a zero right now, Koloko flashed, but so far away still.

Clearly you show no patient and think it is only about PRODUCTION.
I don't get why you think Barnes is good, he couldn't defend nor create against starter at his level, and you think he has PRODUCTION. Clearly blindsided to me.

The reason we were so bad last year has a lot to do with Barnes lol.

Banton is a zero atm and so is Koloko. That's a fact. Of course Barnes had crappy moments (defense/shooting/Aggression). But he flashed more than both those scrubs combined.

Weren't Koloko's defensive metrics like super good though?

[mtcan]

OKC spent a lot time scouting Leonard Miller last year at Fort Erie. They probably would have taken him in the second round. Toronto did too and also interviewed him at the combine. I think based on the landscape of prospects at end of lotto, that Miller pops out the most due to his upside, nba body and improvement in the last 12 months. He was a nothing player this time last year.

Also, if Cason wallace gets past Dallas, I think its very real he drops to us.

Leonard Miller fits the profile of a Masai Ujiri kind of pick. Tall, long wingspan and questionable basketball ability.

If all his picks were Bruno types you would be right but go look at the history.

Just naming guys off the top of my head (obviously Goggling for for actual measurements)...these are the guys that have been brought in either as drafted/undrafted/traded for while on a rookie scale contract in the Masai era:
Julyan Stone (6'6 point guard with 6'10 wingspan)
Bruno
Bebe Noguiera (not drafted but tall and long wingspan)
Jak
Pascal
OG
Delon (noted for his length at the point guard position)
DeAndre Daniels (6'9 tall, 7 ft wingspan)
Norm (long wingspan for his height 6'11 for a 6'4 guy)
Scottie
Chris Boucher
Dewan Hernandez
Delano Banton
Justin Champagnie (6'10 wingspan 8'8 standing reach)
Oshae Brissett (7 ft wingspan)
David Johnson (6'5 guard with 6'10 wingspan)
Terence Davis (8'5 standing reach and largest hands since 2010)
Christian Koloko
Precious Achiuwa

The above list outnumbers the list prospects with average to negative wingspan and/or height like:
Malachi Flynn
Jalen Harris
Dwight Buycks
Matt Thomas
Fred VanVleet

Who am I missing?

*oh and...Masai also loves prospects in their early to mid 20s that started basketball late or might be seen as late bloomers*

[niQ]

Watch on YouTube

has us selecting GG at 13

I'm not a huge GG Jackson fan, but I do think he might be the biggest boom or bust prospect. If he hits, he's a star. But hearing his interview with Rafael Barlowe and watching the scouting reports on him on youtube, he's got a lot of maturing to do. I think he might be one of the youngest prospect in the draft and it shows.

[InfraRedshaw]

Leonard Miller fits the profile of a Masai Ujiri kind of pick. Tall, long wingspan and questionable basketball ability.

If all his picks were Bruno types you would be right but go look at the history.

Just naming guys off the top of my head (obviously Goggling for for actual measurements)...these are the guys that have been brought in either as drafted/undrafted/traded for while on a rookie scale contract in the Masai era:
Julyan Stone (6'6 point guard with 6'10 wingspan)
Bruno
Bebe Noguiera (not drafted but tall and long wingspan)
Jak
Pascal
OG
Delon (noted for his length at the point guard position)
DeAndre Daniels (6'9 tall, 7 ft wingspan)
Norm (long wingspan for his height 6'11 for a 6'4 guy)
Scottie
Chris Boucher
Dewan Hernandez
Delano Banton
Justin Champagnie (6'10 wingspan 8'8 standing reach)
Oshae Brissett (7 ft wingspan)
David Johnson (6'5 guard with 6'10 wingspan)
Terence Davis (8'5 standing reach and largest hands since 2010)
Christian Koloko
Precious Achiuwa

The above list outnumbers the list prospects with average to negative wingspan and/or height like:
Malachi Flynn
Jalen Harris
Dwight Buycks
Matt Thomas
Fred VanVleet

Who am I missing?

That is a name I haven't heard in forever, was rooting so hard for that dude!

[ATLTimekeeper]

We are definitely picking someone who nobody expects and is projected to go 20-45 in draft boards. I can’t think of a time Masai picked the consensus/projected guy. Even Scottie was a shock pick over Suggs at the time.

The funny thing is, about a month ago, I mentioned Coulibaly as a potential riser in the draft based on his upside. He was regularly ranked in the 2nd round. He was someone I thought Raps FO would like if we didn't draft based on consensus.

He's risen a bit (late 1st round in most mocks) and is currently 15th on The Ringer's Mock and 17th on nbadraft.net. By draft time, it might not even be considered a reach anymore.

I don't think he'll even stay in the draft without a lotto guarantee.

[Spates]

So here's where the circular / double argument.

Applaud Colangelo for treadmilling for years to acquire lottery talent that we used in trades.
Criticize Masai for treadmilling leading us to get later picks in the lottery.

Don't give Masai credit for turning BC's hodgepodge of crap roster and turning it into a cohesive, championship unit. We won the title 7 years after BC left...

Masai has no good young prospects. Other than Barnes.

I have to disagree. I think OG is still a prospect. Achiuwa is a good prospect (people here being patient?). Banton is a good prospect (I compare him to Powell, late 1st and all he needs is shooting).

If you are looking for star power, it usually comes from trades.
Keep in mind that the players lead us to championship team has largely due to Lowry (and Leonard), who we got it from trade. Those we draft all got traded for the championship pieces: DeRozan (worth the same as Leonard?), Ross, Valanciunas, Wright, Poeltl. Who left on that championship that we drafted? Siakam (low 1st), OG (low 1st), Powell (2nd), VanVleet (undraft)?

It's hard to call OG a prospect when contending teams are looking to him as a win now move. As for Precious and Banton, who knows. They need a lot of refinement to thrive at the NBA level. I see the promise but I wouldn't bet on it. I actually think they're the type of peripheral players, at least currently, that scale with the ball IQ of teammates.

That's why I'm partial to gathering smart players that can shoot, pass, dribble, and defend. Raise the floor with smart play until you can acquire the talent you're certain raises the ceiling.

[mtcan]

If all his picks were Bruno types you would be right but go look at the history.

Just naming guys off the top of my head (obviously Goggling for for actual measurements)...these are the guys that have been brought in either as drafted/undrafted/traded for while on a rookie scale contract in the Masai era:
Julyan Stone (6'6 point guard with 6'10 wingspan)
Bruno
Bebe Noguiera (not drafted but tall and long wingspan)
Jak
Pascal
OG
Delon (noted for his length at the point guard position)
DeAndre Daniels (6'9 tall, 7 ft wingspan)
Norm (long wingspan for his height 6'11 for a 6'4 guy)
Scottie
Chris Boucher
Dewan Hernandez
Delano Banton
Justin Champagnie (6'10 wingspan 8'8 standing reach)
Oshae Brissett (7 ft wingspan)
David Johnson (6'5 guard with 6'10 wingspan)
Terence Davis (8'5 standing reach and largest hands since 2010)
Christian Koloko
Precious Achiuwa

The above list outnumbers the list prospects with average to negative wingspan and/or height like:
Malachi Flynn
Jalen Harris
Dwight Buycks
Matt Thomas
Fred VanVleet

Who am I missing?

That is a name I haven't heard in forever, was rooting so hard for that dude!

The days of Julyan Stone, Dwight Buycks and DJ Augustine fighting for backup PG minutes...almost as bad as having backup point guards like Malachi Flynn and Dalano Banton. lol

[Spates]

I have to disagree. I think OG is still a prospect. Achiuwa is a good prospect (people here being patient?). Banton is a good prospect (I compare him to Powell, late 1st and all he needs is shooting).

If you are looking for star power, it usually comes from trades.
Keep in mind that the players lead us to championship team has largely due to Lowry (and Leonard), who we got it from trade. Those we draft all got traded for the championship pieces: DeRozan (worth the same as Leonard?), Ross, Valanciunas, Wright, Poeltl. Who left on that championship that we drafted? Siakam (low 1st), OG (low 1st), Powell (2nd), VanVleet (undraft)?

OG is the only other prospect ( not even sure he's a prospect TBH) who I think is good, with great value. TBH I don't know what Precious value would be, but i'm not optimistic about it. No one cares about Banton lol, or Koloko.

It's not even star power i'm looking for, it's PRODUCTION! Banton is a zero right now, Koloko flashed, but so far away still.

Clearly you show no patient and think it is only about PRODUCTION.
I don't get why you think Barnes is good, he couldn't defend nor create against starter at his level, and you think he has PRODUCTION. Clearly blindsided to me.

The reason we were so bad last year has a lot to do with Barnes lol.

Liking Barnes has everything to do with patience. It's not about about what he is, it's all about what he'll become as skills develop to match his passing and comprehension of the game.

[WuTang_CMB]

Leonard Miller fits the profile of a Masai Ujiri kind of pick. Tall, long wingspan and questionable basketball ability.

If all his picks were Bruno types you would be right but go look at the history.

Just naming guys off the top of my head (obviously Goggling for for actual measurements)...these are the guys that have been brought in either as drafted/undrafted/traded for while on a rookie scale contract in the Masai era:
Julyan Stone (6'6 point guard with 6'10 wingspan)
Bruno
Bebe Noguiera (not drafted but tall and long wingspan)
Jak
Pascal
OG
Delon (noted for his length at the point guard position)
DeAndre Daniels (6'9 tall, 7 ft wingspan)
Norm (long wingspan for his height 6'11 for a 6'4 guy)
Scottie
Chris Boucher
Dewan Hernandez
Delano Banton
Justin Champagnie (6'10 wingspan 8'8 standing reach)
Oshae Brissett (7 ft wingspan)
David Johnson (6'5 guard with 6'10 wingspan)
Terence Davis (8'5 standing reach and largest hands since 2010)
Christian Koloko
Precious Achiuwa

The above list outnumbers the list prospects with average to negative wingspan and/or height like:
Malachi Flynn
Jalen Harris
Dwight Buycks
Matt Thomas
Fred VanVleet

Who am I missing?

*oh and...Masai also loves prospects in their early to mid 20s that started basketball late or might be seen as late bloomers*

You said questionable basketball ability. Poeltl, Siakam, Norm, Delon, OG can all play and were picked all over the board. Their talent wasn't questionable. We have a certain type for sure but we find talent. Bruno was the one guy at #20 where he had zero skill.

[Indeed]

In the extreme sense of scorched earth tanking probably doesn't work. But whether it's strategic or not it's an avenue to cheap talent that you can build with. From there as you develop that talent you then add pieces through trade, free agency or more draft picks. The biggest thing is getting the piece to build with.

Sure and ignoring that Poeltl and Koloko are not pieces to 'build' with is a little disingenuous.

Yes we dealt a late first and got an early second. So we did get a young prospect in Koloko. Yes we did deal a 1st rounder. But we also got a starting center in the prime of his career that we will most likely extend.

Should have been more specific on piece to build with. I meant a foundational piece to build with. I like Poeltl as a starting C and Koloko as a building block for the future. I just didn't like the price that was paid, but that's my opinion and Masai has a different one.

I am not sure we were building around DeRozan when we were winning. And are we better off building around Siakam?
I think our current problem is having too many redundant pieces, and somehow last season we didn't improve or even set back by some.
Or maybe none of our player got improved last year in the exception of Siakam. I think a few have been training hard, but I feel shooting was never a priority in practice.

[niQ]

We are definitely picking someone who nobody expects and is projected to go 20-45 in draft boards. I can’t think of a time Masai picked the consensus/projected guy. Even Scottie was a shock pick over Suggs at the time.

The funny thing is, about a month ago, I mentioned Coulibaly as a potential riser in the draft based on his upside. He was regularly ranked in the 2nd round. He was someone I thought Raps FO would like if we didn't draft based on consensus.

He's risen a bit (late 1st round in most mocks) and is currently 15th on The Ringer's Mock and 17th on nbadraft.net. By draft time, it might not even be considered a reach anymore.

I don't think he'll even stay in the draft without a lotto guarantee.

Forgot that was also an option. When is the deadline for international players to withdraw?