Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9

[Indeed]

knight or the best big man that falls. at least that makes it easyish to scout.

i still hope against hope that it's biyombo that is good enough to warrant our selection. he's the one that i dream can catalyze our defense and finish at the rim on offense.

he might not be that good but i sure as hell hope he is. does James Johnson/Amir/Davis/Biyombo not look like a decent defensive core?

If you have a very good defensive core without offense, then you need a great passer to get those involved. Neither DeRozan nor Bayless can provide that playmaking skill, and they are unlikely to be a pass-first players. I think you only need two of Amir/Davis/Bismack, then you need an offensive threat for some situation (down by 2, you need a scoring big who can create for himself or demand a defender without cheating?)

[Indeed]

People are understandably getting all worked up over the mocks showing Vesely to the raps but I don't buy it.

I think he is a guy who will slide into the late lottery.

If we do end up with him atleast we'll have some NBA facials being served up again.....along with the usual side of poor rebounding and defense...../facepalm

I think Val will slide. Vesely has the quickness against PF (just need to bulk up), and has enough length to take on SF. His mentality is very similar to AK, where he knows when to do the right things, and with high awareness. However, he is older, and because of that, his potential dropped a little bit.

[SkywalkerAC]

knight or the best big man that falls. at least that makes it easyish to scout.

i still hope against hope that it's biyombo that is good enough to warrant our selection. he's the one that i dream can catalyze our defense and finish at the rim on offense.

he might not be that good but i sure as hell hope he is. does James Johnson/Amir/Davis/Biyombo not look like a decent defensive core?

If you have a very good defensive core without offense, then you need a great passer to get those involved. Neither DeRozan nor Bayless can provide that playmaking skill, and they are unlikely to be a pass-first players. I think you only need two of Amir/Davis/Bismack, then you need an offensive threat for some situation (down by 2, you need a scoring big who can create for himself or demand a defender without cheating?)

bargnani could be retained as he actually bring good size to the mix, to go with his scoring.

nice similarities to the championship Pistons group, if all went well.

[gerrit4]

I'd still love to try Vesely with a 2nd pick in the 8-10. At 5, I'd rather someone a bit less risky (although they're all a bit risky I guess).

[5DOM]

Vesely was the Young Euroleague Player of the Year and many GMs think he's the best international prospect in the draft. I dont have much problem with picking him.

[Kevin Willis]

I'd still love to try Vesely with a 2nd pick in the 8-10. At 5, I'd rather someone a bit less risky (although they're all a bit risky I guess).

yeah they're all risky. Right now it's like stocks, what is your risk aversion?

Want to roll the dice big time on a BB? Play safe with Burks, Walker, Knight? Take a chance on a Kanter? Go for upside with BB, Vesely, Knight, Jonas even thought they might not reach that level?

There's nothing close to a certainty outside of the top two and even still they have more risk than J Wall, Durant, Griffen, Harden types.

[Indeed]

knight or the best big man that falls. at least that makes it easyish to scout.

i still hope against hope that it's biyombo that is good enough to warrant our selection. he's the one that i dream can catalyze our defense and finish at the rim on offense.

he might not be that good but i sure as hell hope he is. does James Johnson/Amir/Davis/Biyombo not look like a decent defensive core?

If you have a very good defensive core without offense, then you need a great passer to get those involved. Neither DeRozan nor Bayless can provide that playmaking skill, and they are unlikely to be a pass-first players. I think you only need two of Amir/Davis/Bismack, then you need an offensive threat for some situation (down by 2, you need a scoring big who can create for himself or demand a defender without cheating?)

bargnani could be retained as he actually bring good size to the mix, to go with his scoring.

nice similarities to the championship Pistons group, if all went well.

Bargnani or not, I see Amir and Bismack are too similar. If Amir can improve his offense in face up and shooting, then I would like to keep him. However, he will be too similar to Davis as well.

I think having Bismack is great, but if we can get someone with good postup skill (other than Kleiza at the 3), we should be better.

Bismack - man defense, help defense, shot blocking
Davis - shooting, help defense, shot blocking
Amir - face up, man defense, help defense
Bargnani - shooting, offensive threat, man defense
Someone - post up, man defense, help defense

So you can see if we acquire Someone, then the Amir/Davis/Bismack might be too much focus on defense.
As for shot blocking, if we are keeping James Johnson, he can provide the help defense and shot blocking. If we draft Barnes next year and play him at SF, then extra shot blocker would be useful.

Ideal:
(Bismack)-(Kanter)-James Johnson

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

After the Eurocamp, it wouldn't surprise me to see Biyombo linked to the Raptors with our pick(s).

[gerrit4]

Am I the only one here who thinks it's crazy Tristan Thompson is projected so late? He seems like a sure thing to me - not a star but a solid rotational big at least. In this draft, that's pretty darn good. I'll bet he goes top 8.

I'd love him on the raps but is obviously a terrible fit with Ed & Amir...

[gerrit4]

Sorry for the 2nd post in a row, but I'm feeling more and more that the raps draft board is:

Knight
Vesely
Valanciunous
Walker
Kanter


Which means we probably get Vesely. To me, he's one of the riskiest prospects and I still don't understand what he does well other than dunking. I like him though, but he's the type of player I'd love to get with a 2nd pickm but It's starting to sound like he won't drop past the Wiz at 6. GMs obviously see a lot more than we do in Jan. I think he'd be a very entertaining player to watch, at the very least....

[bboyskinnylegs]

I hope this supposed Vesely interest is just:

[turner10]

I hope this supposed Vesely interest is just:

hahah unreal

[Truthrising]

Sorry for the 2nd post in a row, but I'm feeling more and more that the raps draft board is:

Knight
Vesely
Valanciunous
Walker
Kanter


Which means we probably get Vesely. To me, he's one of the riskiest prospects and I still don't understand what he does well other than dunking. I like him though, but he's the type of player I'd love to get with a 2nd pickm but It's starting to sound like he won't drop past the Wiz at 6. GMs obviously see a lot more than we do in Jan. I think he'd be a very entertaining player to watch, at the very least....

Just as entertaining as Bargnani, BC's kind of guy

[Man of Steel]

I hope this supposed Vesely interest is just:

Well played, Sir.

[gerrit4]

Sorry for the 2nd post in a row, but I'm feeling more and more that the raps draft board is:

Knight
Vesely
Valanciunous
Walker
Kanter


Which means we probably get Vesely. To me, he's one of the riskiest prospects and I still don't understand what he does well other than dunking. I like him though, but he's the type of player I'd love to get with a 2nd pickm but It's starting to sound like he won't drop past the Wiz at 6. GMs obviously see a lot more than we do in Jan. I think he'd be a very entertaining player to watch, at the very least....

Just as entertaining as Bargnani, BC's kind of guy

Maybe, but they're completely different players, other than the fact that they're both tall.

[Rhettmatic]

WolstatSun Ryan Wolstat
Just filed something on Vesely. BC wouldn't say much on him other than he's seen him live at least three times now. #Raptors

[dTox]

I just want to take the safe route with this pick and grab a player whose been scouted more. No thanks to Vesely

[dTox]

WolstatSun Ryan Wolstat
Just filed something on Vesely. BC wouldn't say much on him other than he's seen him live at least three times now. #Raptors

unrelated, but out of curiousity: whose your pick for the coaching search

[Rhettmatic]

WolstatSun Ryan Wolstat
Just filed something on Vesely. BC wouldn't say much on him other than he's seen him live at least three times now. #Raptors

unrelated, but out of curiousity: whose your pick for the coaching search

Honestly, I'm fine with either Frank or Casey. I feel like Frank is more of a sure thing (and a very solid coach), but I think Casey would be fine here too. Neither is particularly inspired, nor are they perfect for a rebuilding team, but I suspect whichever guy we hire will wind up being the best coach we've had, for whatever that's worth.

[Rhettmatic]

Posted this in the Vesely thread too, but Tim Chisholm has a good blog post outlining why he doesn't understand the appeal of Jan Vesely:

http://tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=368386

Also distressing are his turnover and foul rates. He has a very hard time holding onto the ball and his lack of lateral quickness should only raise his foul rate in the NBA when he's asked to check one-name wonders like LeBron, Carmelo and Durant.

That aside, however, there are two things that really concern me about him as a prospect. One, that he doesn't seem to have a go-to skill. People often talk about young guys needing some kind of skill to define them early because that skill helps coaches keep them out on the floor. Be it three-point shooting, rebounding, playmaking, penetrating, shot blocking, screen setting - something has to keep that player on the court so that they can develop the other areas of the game.

What's Vesely's skill? What is the one thing you can put him on the floor to do feeling relatively secure he's going to be able to do it? He can't hold position in the post, he can't handle the ball, he can't really do any one thing at an elite level, even against Euroleague competition. For him to develop as a player, he needs court time, but a coach can't keep handing him court time unless Vesely gives the coach something tangible to game plan with when he puts him out there. If length, athleticism and energy were all it took, James Singleton would still be in the NBA.