GT #53: Raptors (28-24) @ Wizards (25-27) 7 PM CSN

[truwizfan4evr]

Agree there. Gortat could do more if they used him in more pick & roll AND if he finished stronger. Nene though is also soft. I mean how else do you avg less than six boards a game in 30 minutes at 6'11 270? His minutes are up but his rebounding numbers are way down. He's a vet playing out his deal.

Amen!

[truwizfan4evr]

How isn't Nene embarrassed about his rebounding numbers?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Lowry is better than Wall. Lowry was more deserving of All Star than Wall, mainly because of the Raptors' record.

Lowry proved his point in the win.

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[AFM]

Lowry is better than Wall. Lowry was more deserving of All Star than Wall, mainly because of the Raptors' record.

Lowry proved his point in the win.

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No shame in that. Lowry is a very good player.

Players like Lowry and Dragic (and Calderone) will never get the respect they deserve compared to the Walls and Westbrooks.

[stevemcqueen1]

Lowry is better than Wall. Lowry was more deserving of All Star than Wall, mainly because of the Raptors' record.

Lowry proved his point in the win.

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Lowry is not better than Wall. Lowry's TEAM is a lot better than Wall's. Wall was terrific last night. The problem is that nobody else really stepped up. Toronto is a far better coached team and they got strong play from players 1-9. Wall was excellent, Nene and Gortat were OK, and then everyone else was bad last night. And Randy is the worst coach in the league.

[payitforward]

Gortat going 8-11 and grabbing 11 boards in his 31 minutes isn't "Impactful"??

We seem to have people here who think that if only the coach would add 2, 3 & 5 in that preferred order instead of 6 & 4 or any other combination that works, we'd have a different "10" than we do.

The better the players play the more wins we have. Gortat played extremely well last night. He's not the problem; he's not the reason we're getting worse instead of better.

Nene is on a significant decline; he plays well in stretches, but he's limited physically.

To me at least, it looks like our biggest problem right now is that Martell's productivity has dropped off the edge of a cliff. I'm assuming he is experiencing the return of the back problems that have plagued his career. You can't ask him to shoot better than he did last night, but he's not active in any other way right now, and he isn't getting enough attempts. This puts us in a position where both John and Brad have to play very well on a given night for us to win.

I'm worried that the next few weeks are going to be kind of ugly -- especially if the genius at the helm does something like bring in Beno Udrih w/ the expectation that he'll provide help in righting the ship.

[AFM]

Nene will really drive a Wiz fan crazy, won't he?
When I watch him play, I feel like I'm watching one of the most talented big men play. His footwork is amazing, his up and under moves, his shot fakes, the way he gets past his man with his little "gallop" step, etc. He looks so talented out there.
Then I check the box score and the dude quite literally has 3 rebounds and 6 points??

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Lowry is better than Wall. Lowry was more deserving of All Star than Wall, mainly because of the Raptors' record.

Lowry proved his point in the win.

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No shame in that. Lowry is a very good player.

Players like Lowry and Dragic (and Calderone) will never get the respect they deserve compared to the Walls and Westbrooks.

Precisely, AFM.

Lowry was really good even on the Villanova Final Four team. Foye got more credit. Kyle Lowry is finally getting to be a star. He's not an all star only because of others being hyped more.

Dragic had stud numbers and IIRC once had like 20 plus points in a half of a playoff game. He was behind either Nash or on another team. Two years back I assessed Goran Dragic to be slightly better than Wall. Others will disagree vehemently with me.

My rationale: I view Wall as about as good as Caron Butler at Caron's best for the Wizards. Flawed but certainly all star offensively at his peak. John's defensive ability reminds me of peak Larry Hughes, when Hughes was putting up similar numbers to Gilbert Arenas. At the time, Eddie Jordan almost coached the all star game. IIRC Hughes led the league or was near the top in steals. However, Hughes gambled for steals. He had no answer for Dwayne Wade. Larry Hughes made all defensive team. HOWEVER, his defensive ability was less than DeShawn Stevenson's. DS really was a physical defender. He tried to stay right in Lebron's grill and even called James "overrated." Stevenson has huge ones. Later as a Maverick, DeShawn and Shawn Marion clowned on James as Dallas beat Miami in the Finals. Wall's not like DeShawn defensively IMO. He's more like Hughes wss.

Wall's defense is overrated and his floor game at "ISO Balll Time" is generally more miss than hit. I rate Lowry or Dragic high because they're stronger in SOME AREAS than Wall.

If any of my haters are still reading, the Great News is that John Wall is a young buck. He's IMO a puppy who if he gets tougher and smarter, keeps working hard, and stays humble; Wall's potential is sky freaking high!

He has been in the league three years and over a half. But then again, coaching and his GM and owner have been slow to surround Wall to be able to excel. Wall ain't a Magic Johnson or an MJ or a Kobe. He could be a Payton or Cassell or Kidd with extreme athleticism. Wall's got no Durant or Harden next to him like Russell Westbrook had his formative years.

So, despite my hard grade I remain hopeful. My only criticism might be I don't think next season Wall will produce like a max deal player. I hope petulance or pride don't form to keep Wall from improving. He's still got a LOT to learn.

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[Nivek]

I agree with CCJ. Lowry is better than Wall right now. Wall has a higher ceiling, though. I think Wall will end up being better, and will end up having the better career. But this season, Lowry is better.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Lowry is better than Wall. Lowry was more deserving of All Star than Wall, mainly because of the Raptors' record.

Lowry proved his point in the win.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Lowry is not better than Wall. Lowry's TEAM is a lot better than Wall's. Wall was terrific last night. The problem is that nobody else really stepped up. Toronto is a far better coached team and they got strong play from players 1-9. Wall was excellent, Nene and Gortat were OK, and then everyone else was bad last night. And Randy is the worst coach in the league.

Steve, I didn't see the game. I am very open to your good points about teams and coaching. ESPN highlights said 0 points Wall in fourth. I noted Wizards lost by 10 at home.

I recall Wall looking off Beal to lose a game after John went hero. He's missed s heap of last shots. Guys named Pressey and Calathes have made the Wizards' PG not look dominant or elite.

So, we have a good debate on how good Wall is, stevemcqueen1!

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I be interested in trading for Amir Johnson just so we never have to play against him again. The dude destroys us.

I like Amir Johnson, too, CntOutSmrtCrazy.

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[Dat2U]

I be interested in trading for Amir Johnson just so we never have to play against him again. The dude destroys us.

I like Amir Johnson, too, CntOutSmrtCrazy.

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I suggested a Kyle Lowry & Amir Johnson trade for Otto Porter & filler earlier this year before Kyle blew up.

Not sure how Lowry would feel about being a 3rd guard (probably not too well), but I felt Amir Johnson was fair compensation for Otto Porter.

[DCZards]

Watching Lowry and Derozan abuse the Wizards last night I'm thinking "wow Toronto has a great backcourt. They're clearly better than Wall-Beal." Lowry is having an outstanding season (which he has done in the past when healthy) and Derozan is having his "breakout" season. But, then again, Lowry is 27 years old and in his 8th NBA season and Derozan is 24 years old in his 5th season...as compared to the relative youth and inexperience of Wall and Beal.

I'm bullish on the chances of Wall-Beal being at least as a good (or better) than Lowry-Derozan in 2-3 years.

[Kanyewest]

Lowry is better than Wall. Lowry was more deserving of All Star than Wall, mainly because of the Raptors' record.

Lowry proved his point in the win.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

No shame in that. Lowry is a very good player.

Players like Lowry and Dragic (and Calderone) will never get the respect they deserve compared to the Walls and Westbrooks.

Precisely, AFM.

Lowry was really good even on the Villanova Final Four team. Foye got more credit. Kyle Lowry is finally getting to be a star. He's not an all star only because of others being hyped more.

Dragic had stud numbers and IIRC once had like 20 plus points in a half of a playoff game. He was behind either Nash or on another team. Two years back I assessed Goran Dragic to be slightly better than Wall.
Others will disagree vehemently with me. My rationale: I view Wall as about as good as Caron Butler at Caron's best for the Wizards. Flawed but certainly all star offensively at his peak. John's defensive ability reminds me of peak Larry Hughes, when Hughes was putting up similar numbers to Gilbert Arenas. At the time, Eddie Jordan almost coached the all star game. IIRC Hughes led the league or was near thr top in steals. However, Hughes gambled for steals. He had no answer for Dwayne Wade. Larry Hughes made defensive team.. HOWEVER, his defensive ability was less than DeShawn Stevenson. DS really was a physical defender. He even trief to stay right in Lebron's grill. Called James overrated. That guy has huge ones. Later as a Dallas Maverick, DeShawn and Shawn Marion clowned on James as Dallas beat Miami. Wall's not like DeShawn defensively IMO. He's more like Hughes wss.

Wall's defense is overrated and his floor game at "ISO Balll Time" is generally more miss than hit. I rate Lowry or Dragic high because they're stronger in SOME AREAS than Wall.

If any of my haters are still reading, the Great News is that John Wall is a young buck. He's IMO a puppy thst if he gets tougher and smarter, keeps working hard, and stays humble; Wall's potential is sky freaking high!

He has been in the league three years and over a half. But then again, coaching and his GM and owner have been slowly surrounding Wall to be able to excel. Wall ain't a Magic Johnson or an MJ or a Kobe. He could be a Payton or Cassell or Kidd with extreme athleticism. Wall's got no Durant or Harden next to him like Russell Westbrook had his formative years.

So, despite my hard grade I remain hopeful. My only criticism might be I don't think next season Wsll will produce like a max deal player. I hope petulance or pride don't form to keep Wall from improving. He's still got a LOT to learn.

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Foye was the better player than Lowry at Villanova (which only made it to the elite 8). It was hard to determine really whether Lowry had good point guard skills back then given Villanova 4 guard lineup. Still Lowry was young at 20; he should have went higher than he did in the NBA draft.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

The Raptors are not as good as their record against the Wizards make them out to be. I think they fall into that group of teams that the Wizards don't get up for. They're not terrible, but they aren't elite...somewhere in the middle.

There hasn't been a single game against the Raptors this season where I've felt as though the Wizards weren't going to come from behind and close the game for the win. It just hasn't happened. The Wizards are still battling themselves. These losses are more due to the Wizards mental makeup against average to bad teams.

I'd take a first round playoff series against Toronto any day...they just don't scare me.

[TGW]

Didn't take too long for the trolling to begin.

Easily the most obnoxious fan base.

Speak for yourselves. The last game thread on here from January was embarrassing as an NBA fan.

He speaks for me as well...The craptors fan base is the collectively some of the biggest idiots on realgm.

[Illmatic21]

Lowry is better than Wall. Lowry was more deserving of All Star than Wall, mainly because of the Raptors' record.

Lowry proved his point in the win.

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Lowry is 27 years old in his 7th season (after two years of college exp), and has always been a solid player. He's been fortunate to play under a LOT of good coaches his whole career: Jay Wright, Mike Fratello, Rick Adelman, Kevin McHale. Compared to Wall who has developed under Calipari, Flip, Wittman. There are little veteran things Lowry does better than Wall, but it's quite apparent that Wall is on a trajectory to be a much better player.

Lowry vs Wall was hardly the focal point of this game anyways. It was about Toronto as a team consistently executing on both ends better than we did. There was no point at which I was like "Man, this Wall vs Lowry matchup is costing us the game".. it was more about our interior defense doing nothing, and no one other than John being able to create on offense.

[Illmatic21]

Didn't take too long for the trolling to begin.

Easily the most obnoxious fan base.

Speak for yourselves. The last game thread on here from January was embarrassing as an NBA fan.

He speaks for me as well...The craptors fan base is the collectively some of the biggest idiots on realgm.

In all fairness there are like a million of them on RGM.. can't judge solely based on the vocal ones

[dlts20]

Lowry is not better than Wall. He has a better coach and things are going well for them. Was anyone saying Lowry was better than Wall last year or even this year before they traded Gay? You cant cherry pick things. That team has come together and the system fits. Ours doesnt. Thats going to allow a guy to play better but that doesnt mean he's better. Do you really think we would be better right now with Lowry? Hell NO. Would any team trade Wall for Lowry straight up? Hell NO

[truwizfan4evr]

Lowry is not better than Wall. He has a better coach and things are going well for them. Was anyone saying Lowry was better than Wall last year or even this year before they traded Gay? You cant cherry pick things. That team has come together and the system fits. Ours doesnt. Thats going to allow a guy to play better but that doesnt mean he's better. Do you really think we would be better right now with Lowry? Hell NO. Would any team trade Wall for Lowry straight up? Hell NO

Good point there.