Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX

[payitforward]

You undervalue Batum and Leonard. And McCollum is worth more than Webster (that's obvious to me). But I can't see the trade in any case. Aldridge and Lopez both expire this year; they're not trading Leonard.

A trade that includes Nene would be great, but the original suggestion above is... ridiculous. Would be great for us of course.

We could have drafted Batum. Hell, we probably could have traded down w/ Portland in the '12 draft and picked Lillard and Leonard!

The best way to get good young players is to draft them.

I've thought Batum has been overrated on this board (actually mostly on bulletsforever, if you post there) for a few years now. His PER of 12 doesn't impress me, neither does his 30% from 3.

You're right, the best way to get good young players is to draft them. Also, pretty important that you don't trade said young players 2 years after doing so.

Agreed -- I'm not interested in trading Beal and/or Porter.

Batum is having a little bit of an off year; his PER has hovered around 16+ over the years. However, PER is not how to evaluate him (or anyone), as it significantly over-values points scored at any level of efficiency, and Batum is not a scorer.

If you look instead at his WP48, he's one of the top dozen SFs in the league.

Note: WP48 is a tool, that's all; it's not a religion, and I'm not a "believer." Not interested in debating it, as the debates go nowhere. The argument in favor of this tool is that it correlates at a high level w/ actual team wins/losses -- i.e. at a higher level than PER or any other published analytical tool: 94% is what's claimed.

[BruceO]

there's video out of embiid practicing. I've probably said this before many times here but id trade beal for embiid. Actually I would also trade wall for embiid. If i do due diligence. I'm a big believer in scarcity in the nba. In the sense that i feel some certain players are hard to come by and you have to take the chance on those types while others even if they are good are replaceable. Beal is replaceable. Wall is replaceable regardless of how good both are. To get a two way big who projects to have no flaws. Now that is rare. Most prospects come about and have flaws you have to build a team about to accomodate. Eg okafor not being good at defense.

I think every year im puzzled by the choices teams make. I'm actually rooting for Philly, Utah, minnesota and Milwaukee because they are building a team exactly how i would. Especially Philly. The fact so many teams passed on embiid, so many teams passed on cousins befuddles me. Those specific guys you could tell would be special.

I'd be knocking on Phillys door everyday trying to pry embiid off them before he ever hits the court and offering a kings ransome because our ceiling as a team will be much higher. It would take wall or Beal plus other things. We would seem crazy but a move like this has delayed gratification in its uncertainty. Something Hinkie will accomplish soon with all the prospects who couldn't Initially play but weren't needed, plus all the draft picks he has accumulated for future moves, plus all the cap space. He has balls and he's taking the ridicule in order to accomplish the franchise goal.

I'll have to root for embiid in Philly because it'll be a while before we make any worthwhile moves.

[Ruzious]

Philly's basically banking their future on Embiid, so the only way they trade him is if there's something physically wrong with him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I say trade Randy Wittman for Don Newman. Let's see the same players under a different leader. Let them play harder and hopefully smarter through the playoffs.

Wait to decide what trades make sense.

Right now I think Gortat (not on the same page as Wall), Webster, and possibly Beal (because of his leg issues) are players to trade.

I don't expect Pierce will return.

Nene's contract is now a very attractive one to deal.

I want to make sure that Wittman is not making some players worse before making trade ideas.

Since when is Gortat not on the same page as Wall? They had one miscommunication last game. Big deal. I think Wittman and Gortat aren't on the same page, but I've seen no indication that Wall and Gortat are having any trouble. I think Wall and Gortat are a rock solid combination. They're the most consistent players on the team.

Get them a stretch four to space the floor and you'll see Wall averaging 18 and 11 and Gortat averaging 16 and 10. Also, let's not overlook Gortat's durability. He played 81 games last year (the missed game was a suspension) and he's on pace for 82 this year. That's a really big deal for a high-minute center. I'm not interested in pursuing a Gortat trade. He's not untouchable or anything, but I'm pretty happy with him.

I'd entertain trading Beal only because I believe his trade value is higher than his actual value. I've got no problems with the guy. He's a good fit with good character, but there's no reason not to at least test the market given his impending contract expiration.

Obviously, it would be nice to move Webster, but nobody wants him right now. We'd have to sacrifice quite a bit to offload him. At this point, I think we're better off hoping that his back improves and that he can improve his trade value by the Trade Deadline next year. He needs to miss 16 more games for his contract to become voidable.

Gortat is a good player. I know he and Wittman are on a different page. I responded to an earlier post about Gortat and Wall feuding. Quite honestly, I didn't watch the game at all.

nate, it is pretty much obvious that a stretch four to space the floor helps a bunch. Gooden at PF has been good offensively. Yes, it would be nice to draft a good stretch four.

Gortat doesn't finish strong for a center. I like him but he is not elite. If Wall looks him off how effective can he be?

My point in the post was wait to make trades, despite the right now comment. I mentioned Gortat, Webster, and possibly Beal with a trade for DeMarcus Cousins.

That is the only reason I had those players in mind.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Speaking of trade assets, w/e happened to blair? With Bigs injured its a helluva time to miss 3 games due to personal reasons. Stranger yet we don't know why. Hope all is well with him.

Wittman praised Blair the last time he played much.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

there's video out of embiid practicing. I've probably said this before many times here but id trade beal for embiid. Actually I would also trade wall for embiid. If i do due diligence. I'm a big believer in scarcity in the nba. In the sense that i feel some certain players are hard to come by and you have to take the chance on those types while others even if they are good are replaceable. Beal is replaceable. Wall is replaceable regardless of how good both are. To get a two way big who projects to have no flaws. Now that is rare. Most prospects come about and have flaws you have to build a team about to accomodate. Eg okafor not being good at defense.

I think every year im puzzled by the choices teams make. I'm actually rooting for Philly, Utah, minnesota and Milwaukee because they are building a team exactly how i would. Especially Philly. The fact so many teams passed on embiid, so many teams passed on cousins befuddles me. Those specific guys you could tell would be special.

I'd be knocking on Phillys door everyday trying to pry embiid off them before he ever hits the court and offering a kings ransome because our ceiling as a team will be much higher. It would take wall or Beal plus other things. We would seem crazy but a move like this has delayed gratification in its uncertainty. Something Hinkie will accomplish soon with all the prospects who couldn't Initially play but weren't needed, plus all the draft picks he has accumulated for future moves, plus all the cap space. He has balls and he's taking the ridicule in order to accomplish the franchise goal.

I'll have to root for embiid in Philly because it'll be a while before we make any worthwhile moves.

I enjoy posts that challenge status quo thinking.

Wall's speed in transition represents scarcity IMO. Yet, I think of many Wall trade ideas.

Embiid has Olajuwon like athleticism. I think you agree, BruceO.

[Ruzious]

I say trade Randy Wittman for Don Newman. Let's see the same players under a different leader. Let them play harder and hopefully smarter through the playoffs.

Wait to decide what trades make sense.

Right now I think Gortat (not on the same page as Wall), Webster, and possibly Beal (because of his leg issues) are players to trade.

I don't expect Pierce will return.

Nene's contract is now a very attractive one to deal.

I want to make sure that Wittman is not making some players worse before making trade ideas.

Since when is Gortat not on the same page as Wall? They had one miscommunication last game. Big deal. I think Wittman and Gortat aren't on the same page, but I've seen no indication that Wall and Gortat are having any trouble. I think Wall and Gortat are a rock solid combination. They're the most consistent players on the team.

Get them a stretch four to space the floor and you'll see Wall averaging 18 and 11 and Gortat averaging 16 and 10. Also, let's not overlook Gortat's durability. He played 81 games last year (the missed game was a suspension) and he's on pace for 82 this year. That's a really big deal for a high-minute center. I'm not interested in pursuing a Gortat trade. He's not untouchable or anything, but I'm pretty happy with him.

I'd entertain trading Beal only because I believe his trade value is higher than his actual value. I've got no problems with the guy. He's a good fit with good character, but there's no reason not to at least test the market given his impending contract expiration.

Obviously, it would be nice to move Webster, but nobody wants him right now. We'd have to sacrifice quite a bit to offload him. At this point, I think we're better off hoping that his back improves and that he can improve his trade value by the Trade Deadline next year. He needs to miss 16 more games for his contract to become voidable.

Gortat is a good player. I know he and Wittman are on a different page. I responded to an earlier post about Gortat and Wall feuding. Quite honestly, I didn't watch the game at all.

nate, it is pretty much obvious that a stretch four to space the floor helps a bunch. Gooden at PF has been good offensively. Yes, it would be nice to draft a good stretch four.

Gortat doesn't finish strong for a center. I like him but he is not elite. If Wall looks him off how effective can he be?

My point in the post was wait to make trades, despite the right now comment. I mentioned Gortat, Webster, and possibly Beal with a trade for DeMarcus Cousins.

That is the only reason I had those players in mind.

I understand why people say Gortat doesn't finish strong - he doesn't dunk a lot - and it's maddening on the few times when he'll miss near the basket when it looks like he should have dunked. But he does finish effectively. He's one of the tops in the NBA in FG% near the rim. He and Wall work that roll to the hoop play as well as any combo in the NBA.

Yes, the team needs a stretch 4 better than Gooden. It's possible Hump can be that guy.

[nate33]

there's video out of embiid practicing. I've probably said this before many times here but id trade beal for embiid. Actually I would also trade wall for embiid. If i do due diligence. I'm a big believer in scarcity in the nba. In the sense that i feel some certain players are hard to come by and you have to take the chance on those types while others even if they are good are replaceable. Beal is replaceable. Wall is replaceable regardless of how good both are. To get a two way big who projects to have no flaws. Now that is rare. Most prospects come about and have flaws you have to build a team about to accomodate. Eg okafor not being good at defense.

I think every year im puzzled by the choices teams make. I'm actually rooting for Philly, Utah, minnesota and Milwaukee because they are building a team exactly how i would. Especially Philly. The fact so many teams passed on embiid, so many teams passed on cousins befuddles me. Those specific guys you could tell would be special.

I'd be knocking on Phillys door everyday trying to pry embiid off them before he ever hits the court and offering a kings ransome because our ceiling as a team will be much higher. It would take wall or Beal plus other things. We would seem crazy but a move like this has delayed gratification in its uncertainty. Something Hinkie will accomplish soon with all the prospects who couldn't Initially play but weren't needed, plus all the draft picks he has accumulated for future moves, plus all the cap space. He has balls and he's taking the ridicule in order to accomplish the franchise goal.

I'll have to root for embiid in Philly because it'll be a while before we make any worthwhile moves.

I enjoy posts that challenge status quo thinking.

Wall's speed in transition represents scarcity IMO. Yet, I think of many Wall trade ideas.

Embiid has Olajuwon like athleticism. I think you agree, BruceO.

Beal for Embiid is a no-brainer.

[Ruzious]

Trying to be a bit more realistic with Beal trades, how about Beal to Charlotte for Noah Vonleh and their 1st rounder - the 9th pick. The perception is that Vonleh's overmatched as a rookie and a possible bust, but really his per 40 numbers aren't bad for rookie his age (small sample size). It's pretty clear he'll at least be a good rebounder. They'll need to find a replacement for Beal, but it shouldn't be terribly difficult to find a 6'5 guy who can catch and shoot 3's. And they can draft a guard. With Vonleh plus the 9th pick and their pick, they'll have 3 young cheap talented players for the next 3 to 4 years. Plus Porter and perhaps Sato for more youth. And with the 9th pick and the Wiz pick, the new GM takes the BPA's (so much for trying to be realistic).

[Dark Faze]

I'll be patient and wait to see if we can get a new coach to turn Beal into a high volume shooter taking shots he's good at before I move him

[JohnWall2]

What about:

Suns trade: Bledsoe, Knight, Green and the 14th rookie pick 2015

Wizards Trade: John Wall

What say you Washington??

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

there's video out of embiid practicing. I've probably said this before many times here but id trade beal for embiid. Actually I would also trade wall for embiid. If i do due diligence. I'm a big believer in scarcity in the nba. In the sense that i feel some certain players are hard to come by and you have to take the chance on those types while others even if they are good are replaceable. Beal is replaceable. Wall is replaceable regardless of how good both are. To get a two way big who projects to have no flaws. Now that is rare. Most prospects come about and have flaws you have to build a team about to accomodate. Eg okafor not being good at defense.

I think every year im puzzled by the choices teams make. I'm actually rooting for Philly, Utah, minnesota and Milwaukee because they are building a team exactly how i would. Especially Philly. The fact so many teams passed on embiid, so many teams passed on cousins befuddles me. Those specific guys you could tell would be special.

I'd be knocking on Phillys door everyday trying to pry embiid off them before he ever hits the court and offering a kings ransome because our ceiling as a team will be much higher. It would take wall or Beal plus other things. We would seem crazy but a move like this has delayed gratification in its uncertainty. Something Hinkie will accomplish soon with all the prospects who couldn't Initially play but weren't needed, plus all the draft picks he has accumulated for future moves, plus all the cap space. He has balls and he's taking the ridicule in order to accomplish the franchise goal.

I'll have to root for embiid in Philly because it'll be a while before we make any worthwhile moves.

I enjoy posts that challenge status quo thinking.

Wall's speed in transition represents scarcity IMO. Yet, I think of many Wall trade ideas.

Embiid has Olajuwon like athleticism. I think you agree, BruceO.

Beal for Embiid is a no-brainer.

And Wall for Embiid, nate?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Since when is Gortat not on the same page as Wall? They had one miscommunication last game. Big deal. I think Wittman and Gortat aren't on the same page, but I've seen no indication that Wall and Gortat are having any trouble. I think Wall and Gortat are a rock solid combination. They're the most consistent players on the team.

Get them a stretch four to space the floor and you'll see Wall averaging 18 and 11 and Gortat averaging 16 and 10. Also, let's not overlook Gortat's durability. He played 81 games last year (the missed game was a suspension) and he's on pace for 82 this year. That's a really big deal for a high-minute center. I'm not interested in pursuing a Gortat trade. He's not untouchable or anything, but I'm pretty happy with him.

I'd entertain trading Beal only because I believe his trade value is higher than his actual value. I've got no problems with the guy. He's a good fit with good character, but there's no reason not to at least test the market given his impending contract expiration.

Obviously, it would be nice to move Webster, but nobody wants him right now. We'd have to sacrifice quite a bit to offload him. At this point, I think we're better off hoping that his back improves and that he can improve his trade value by the Trade Deadline next year. He needs to miss 16 more games for his contract to become voidable.

Gortat is a good player. I know he and Wittman are on a different page. I responded to an earlier post about Gortat and Wall feuding. Quite honestly, I didn't watch the game at all.

nate, it is pretty much obvious that a stretch four to space the floor helps a bunch. Gooden at PF has been good offensively. Yes, it would be nice to draft a good stretch four.

Gortat doesn't finish strong for a center. I like him but he is not elite. If Wall looks him off how effective can he be?

My point in the post was wait to make trades, despite the right now comment. I mentioned Gortat, Webster, and possibly Beal with a trade for DeMarcus Cousins.

That is the only reason I had those players in mind.

I understand why people say Gortat doesn't finish strong - he doesn't dunk a lot - and it's maddening on the few times when he'll miss near the basket when it looks like he should have dunked. But he does finish effectively. He's one of the tops in the NBA in FG% near the rim. He and Wall work that roll to the hoop play as well as any combo in the NBA.

Yes, the team needs a stretch 4 better than Gooden. It's possible Hump can be that guy.

Agree, totally, Ruz. Effectively. Not strong, though.

I wanted Wolters and hopefully, another guy with more Euro type game to get the ball to Gortat where he can effectively finish more often. Gortat should be getting the ball in his sweet spot more often. My problem with Marcin is more his fit with this bunch than with him. He's about the smartest, most consistent guy on the team IMO.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What about:

Suns trade: Bledsoe, Knight, Green and the 14th rookie pick 2015

Wizards Trade: John Wall

What say you Washington??

Not quite. Wall is a transcendent talent. He put butts in the seats. He's got a gear and a skill set Bledsoe doesn't have.

Throw in a better player than Gerald Green and another pick.

Take Webster and give me one more first round pick; and make it Alex Len instead of Gerald Green.

So it becomes Bledsoe, #14 pick, 2016 first round pick unprotected, Alex Len and take Webster; and you get John.

Maybe I made a bad deal, but that'd probably get it.

[benb331]

Wizards send [any asset except John Wall], Wizards receive [one player as good as or better than John Wall]. Is that even possible?

Would just love to see what he can do alongside players of his caliber. Fill in the gaps with D-Leaguers. Can't be any worse than cringing at Martell Webster on to the court.

[gambitx777]

What about:

Suns trade: Bledsoe, Knight, Green and the 14th rookie pick 2015

Wizards Trade: John Wall

What say you Washington??

Not quite. Wall is a transcendent talent. He put butts in the seats. He's got a gear and a skill set Bledsoe doesn't have.

Throw in a better player than Gerald Green and another pick.

Take Webster and give me one more first round pick; and make it Alex Len instead of Gerald Green.

So it becomes Bledsoe, #14 pick, 2016 first round pick unprotected, Alex Len and take Webster; and you get John.

Maybe I made a bad deal, but that'd probably get it.

it would have to be something like that if not more. Wall is pretty much untouchable. Every one else on the team can be moved but wall is pretty much here to stay.

[payitforward]

... Wall is pretty much untouchable. Every one else on the team can be moved but wall is pretty much here to stay.

Yeah. We are not ready to trade John Wall!

(First we have to drive his value down -- then we can trade him.)

[Dat2U]

If Ernie is here two years from now we may get to a point where were forced to trade John Wall.

[payitforward]

If Ernie is here two years from now we may get to a point where were forced to trade John Wall.

Yup. And when you're forced to trade someone, you get less for him.

Ernie is adept at this process.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If Ernie is here two years from now we may get to a point where were forced to trade John Wall.

Yup. And when you're forced to trade someone, you get less for him.

Ernie is adept at this process.

You mean you didn't like the trade that sent Vesely, plus a second round pick, plus burn-the-BAE Eric Maynor for Andre Miller?

And Miller became Sessions, who inspired the need for Will Bynum...

Ernie really did Ernie.

One thing for sure is that Ernie gonna Ernie.