2021 Draft thread. Woo! 15th pick here we come! Hoo. Ray.

[doclinkin]

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Yeah I like him. I want Mobley, but If we somehow came away with Queta and Ayo I'd be happy.

[NatP4]

Scottie Barnes is really coming on.

[NatP4]

Barnes is now 31-50 from the field over his last 6 games, 3-6 from 3. 14-16 from the free throw line in his last 7 games.

The only thing that holds him back as a prospect is the shooting.

[nate33]

Barnes is now 31-50 from the field over his last 6 games, 3-6 from 3. 14-16 from the free throw line in his last 7 games.

The only thing that holds him back as a prospect is the shooting.

I dunno. I watched a few of those youtube scouting videos The Scouting Rapport and I'm getting Evan Turner vibes

Turner happened to play on an Ohio State team who had no real PG so they put the ball in Turner's hands. Turner was a competent ball handler so he racked up assists mostly be being the guy with the ball most of the time - not because he had particularly impressive playmaking abilities. Turner also played forward in a 2-3 zone so he was around the basket a lot and got a bunch of defensive boards. The end result was that Turner averaged darn near a triple double in college, but it was kind of fake. When he hit the NBA, he was merely a half-decent wing with an above-average handle and a suspect shot. (To be fair, Turner was also a junior. But players stayed in college a bit longer then so he was up against better competition.)

I think Barnes' assists numbers overrate his actual playmaking ability. Watching his videos, I'm not seeing anything that suggests he can be a real playmaker at the NBA level, which makes him an off ball role player. But despite his great NBA body, he's a mediocre rebounder, and you already mentioned his suspect shooting. He's a pretty good defender in my youtube research, and he gets a lot of steals, but he didn't seem elite defensively. (Admittedly one should watch actual games to assess his D so I could be wrong about that.)

Basically, you should ignore the assists when evaluating him, and if you do, does he really look like a top 10 prospect? He looks to me like someone who should go in the mid-to-late teens, unless I'm vastly underrating his defense and he has OG Anunoby/Paul George defensive potential.

[NatP4]

Respect your opinion, Nate. You should watch a full FSU game in the tournament if you can. Not much comparison there. We’d have to wait 2.5 years to compare the numbers Barnes could put up playing college basketball. As a freshman, Turner averaged 3.9 assists and 3.9 turnovers per 40. Barnes currently has the 3rd best assist/turnover ratio in the country as a freshman and averages 6.8 assists and 3.7 turnovers per 40.

Turner also had a 6’8 wingspan and stood 6’5 without shoes. That is a Troy Brown build. Nowhere close to the 7’3 wingspan and 9’0 standing reach that Barnes possesses. No one ever once made the claim that Turner could switch and guard 1-5. Barnes can do that.

The obvious comparison to me is Kyle Anderson with less rebounding ability, and look at how he exploded in his sophomore season at UCLA.

Barnes will improve as a 3pt shooter, and he is already willing to take a fair amount of them. He has shown clear improvement from the FT line as the season has gone along. You already have a player that is extremely efficient inside the arc and around the basket. He brings primary playmaker skills and versatile 1-5 switching defense. Really good basketball IQ and leadership ability.

There’s a lot of potential there. Id like to watch him a lot more. Hopefully FSU makes a deep tourney run. They are dangerous

[Dat2U]

I like NatP4's guy Wagner. His defensive awareness impresses me as much as his skill on offense.

I see him as the Haliburton of this draft. The glue guy that can impact both sides of the court immediately. He feels like a really safe pick.

Utah's front office is probably drooling at the prospect of trading up for him lol.

[NatP4]

I like NatP4's guy Wagner. His defensive awareness impresses me as much as his skill on offense.

I see him as the Haliburton of this draft. The glue guy that can impact both sides of the court immediately. He feels like a really safe pick.

Utah's front office is probably drooling at the prospect of trading up for him lol.

Yeah right, Memphis is all over him.

[nate33]

Respect your opinion, Nate. You should watch a full FSU game in the tournament if you can. Not much comparison there. We’d have to wait 2.5 years to compare the numbers Barnes could put up playing college basketball. As a freshman, Turner averaged 3.9 assists and 3.9 turnovers per 40. Barnes currently has the 3rd best assist/turnover ratio in the country as a freshman and averages 6.8 assists and 3.7 turnovers per 40.

Turner also had a 6’8 wingspan and stood 6’5 without shoes. That is a Troy Brown build. Nowhere close to the 7’3 wingspan and 9’0 standing reach that Barnes possesses. No one ever once made the claim that Turner could switch and guard 1-5. Barnes can do that.

The obvious comparison to me is Kyle Anderson with less rebounding ability, and look at how he exploded in his sophomore season at UCLA.

Barnes will improve as a 3pt shooter, and he is already willing to take a fair amount of them. He has shown clear improvement from the FT line as the season has gone along. You already have a player that is extremely efficient inside the arc and around the basket. He brings primary playmaker skills and versatile 1-5 switching defense. Really good basketball IQ and leadership ability.

There’s a lot of potential there. Id like to watch him a lot more. Hopefully FSU makes a deep tourney run. They are dangerous

Those are all good points. As I said, my evaluation is limited to just highlights, which certainly don't tell the whole story. My main point is to not get too excited by the gaudy assist numbers. I really think that's due to his role, not his innate basketball instincts.

If your comp is Kyle Anderson with less rebounding, does he deserve to be a mid-lotto pick? Shouldn't that be a guy that goes in the 12-20 range?

[Dat2U]

Respect your opinion, Nate. You should watch a full FSU game in the tournament if you can. Not much comparison there. We’d have to wait 2.5 years to compare the numbers Barnes could put up playing college basketball. As a freshman, Turner averaged 3.9 assists and 3.9 turnovers per 40. Barnes currently has the 3rd best assist/turnover ratio in the country as a freshman and averages 6.8 assists and 3.7 turnovers per 40.

Turner also had a 6’8 wingspan and stood 6’5 without shoes. That is a Troy Brown build. Nowhere close to the 7’3 wingspan and 9’0 standing reach that Barnes possesses. No one ever once made the claim that Turner could switch and guard 1-5. Barnes can do that.

The obvious comparison to me is Kyle Anderson with less rebounding ability, and look at how he exploded in his sophomore season at UCLA.

Barnes will improve as a 3pt shooter, and he is already willing to take a fair amount of them. He has shown clear improvement from the FT line as the season has gone along. You already have a player that is extremely efficient inside the arc and around the basket. He brings primary playmaker skills and versatile 1-5 switching defense. Really good basketball IQ and leadership ability.

There’s a lot of potential there. Id like to watch him a lot more. Hopefully FSU makes a deep tourney run. They are dangerous

Those are all good points. As I said, my evaluation is limited to just highlights, which certainly don't tell the whole story. My main point is to not get too excited by the gaudy assist numbers. I really think that's due to his role, not his innate basketball instincts.

If your comp is Kyle Anderson with less rebounding, does he deserve to be a mid-lotto pick? Shouldn't that be a guy that goes in the 12-20 range?

A more athletic Kyle Anderson. A taller Talen Horton-Tucker. Those multiskilled athletes that aren't elite and can't fit easily into a complementary role is something we've seen played out time and time again, especially in DC. I see the intrigue and I'm not done evaluating him but I don't see the value there in the mid-lottery range. The lack of rebounding really hurts him too.

[NatP4]

Good points. I didn’t realize that Kyle Anderson went 30th in the draft. I’m pretty low on the 6-12 range. Going to be a lot of misses. Barnes has a solid floor as a versatile defender and secondary creator and some nice upside if the shot falls. If he rebounded, he might be in the top 5 conversation.

I’ve said it a lot, but teams are going to swing for the fences in that range, with guys like Jalen Johnson, Keon Johnson, Ziaire Williams, Josh Christopher, and Kuminga. Barnes is the high upside play that I feel the best about.

Wagner will be better than all of them though.

[nate33]

The big man for Illinois, Kofi Cockburn, is listed as a 7-footer. He looks more like about 6-10 to me.

If he's a legit 7-feet, he has to be someone worth considering in the 2nd round. He could have a Valanciunas type impact if things break right. He'll probably never be a rim protector, but a guy that big and strong can cause problems for a defense.

[nate33]

Yeah, after briefly flirting with Cunningham and Suggs, I'm back to thinking Mobley is the best player in this draft. The clincher is his outside shot. He's a little inconsistent with his jumper right now, but he'll be a knock down shooter with a few more offseasons of work. His shooting form is terrific:

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He's basically a 7-foot version of Rasheed Wallace, but with a better handle so he can face up against plodders. Wallace won everywhere he went, even if his numbers weren't always amazing. It's such a weapon to be an elite defensive big who can also stretch the defense. He'll have a major impact at both ends of the floor, even when he isn't involved in the play. On offense, he'll pull away the rim protector. On defense, he'll make teams think twice about even running a pick and roll, like Gobert does.

[NatP4]

Basically went with my favorite prospects in my bracket lol.

Got Gonzaga, Michigan, Baylor, and Tennessee in the final 4. Who you guys got?

[Ruzious]

Basically went with my favorite prospects in my bracket lol.

Got Gonzaga, Michigan, Baylor, and Tennessee in the final 4. Who you guys got?

Gonzaga, Texas, Baylor, and West Virginia. I'm actively rooting against Michigan - which means they'll probably win it all.

[Ruzious]

Okay I want a trade back to pick up Queta and Butler and picks. I'd take our #7/8 for OKC's #17 and #31 and whatever else I could wrangle. Though I'd be nervous about the Spurs at #21. I expect the mocks will change after the combine, Queta looks like he will measure long. I think he is a dark horse for some team to 'reach' for him in the first round. I wouldn't hate if that was us. Maybe getting Davion Mitchell instead of Butler.

I love it. I'm leaning more towards Bassey than Queta, but I'll probably change a bunch of times before the draft. Love to get Butler, but I'll settle for Mitchell. Bassey and Butler would make me happy. They both have that winning step on your neck mentality.

On the Bassey v Queta front, Queta recently had a 9 block game and has probably out-played Bassey by a little, but one thing sticks out for me lately to want Bassey more - he's made 5 3's in his last 3 games - out of 15 attempts - not a great percentage, but it's now part of his arsenal. And he makes 77.8% of his FT's - so it's believable that he'll be a competent 3 point shooter in the NBA. If we don't get a top 4 pick, he'd be the player I'd most like to get. Obviously, if we can trade down and still get him, I'd prefer that. I do like Moody best of the players expect to go from 5 to 7. Still a big fan of the UVA connection of Hauser and Huff later in the draft. I hope to see Gonzaga vs UVA in the 3rd round of the NCAA Tournament. If any team can upset Gonzaga, I think it's UVA.

[Ruzious]

The big man for Illinois, Kofi Cockburn, is listed as a 7-footer. He looks more like about 6-10 to me.

If he's a legit 7-feet, he has to be someone worth considering in the 2nd round. He could have a Valanciunas type impact if things break right. He'll probably never be a rim protector, but a guy that big and strong can cause problems for a defense.

I think he's closer to 7 feet than 6'10, and he's simply a massive human being. Jonny V is actually a well skilled player, and I don't think Cockburn measures up to him there, but he can make it in the NBA. I'm kinda hoping that the team who picks Ayo will also get Cockburn - and keep that chemistry going.

[NatP4]

Okay I want a trade back to pick up Queta and Butler and picks. I'd take our #7/8 for OKC's #17 and #31 and whatever else I could wrangle. Though I'd be nervous about the Spurs at #21. I expect the mocks will change after the combine, Queta looks like he will measure long. I think he is a dark horse for some team to 'reach' for him in the first round. I wouldn't hate if that was us. Maybe getting Davion Mitchell instead of Butler.

I love it. I'm leaning more towards Bassey than Queta, but I'll probably change a bunch of times before the draft. Love to get Butler, but I'll settle for Mitchell. Bassey and Butler would make me happy. They both have that winning step on your neck mentality.

On the Bassey v Queta front, Queta recently had a 9 block game and has probably out-played Bassey by a little, but one thing sticks out for me lately to want Bassey more - he's made 5 3's in his last 3 games - out of 15 attempts - not a great percentage, but it's now part of his arsenal. And he makes 77.8% of his FT's - so it's believable that he'll be a competent 3 point shooter in the NBA. If we don't get a top 4 pick, he'd be the player I'd most like to get. Obviously, if we can trade down and still get him, I'd prefer that. I do like Moody best of the players expect to go from 5 to 7. Still a big fan of the UVA connection of Hauser and Huff later in the draft. I hope to see Gonzaga vs UVA in the 3rd round of the NCAA Tournament. If any team can upset Gonzaga, I think it's UVA.

Apparently the entire UVA team is in contact tracing protocol and not practicing. I wonder how ready they will be for tournament level games.

So many great matchups upcoming, Im hoping for an Illinois-Tennessee matchup in the S16, but Illinois will have their hands full with Loyola in round 2. Gonzaga looks to have the easiest path to the final 4 of any 1 seed. San Diego state vs Houston could be legendary.

[FAH1223]

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[nate33]

I think Westbrook has been pretty decent lately. Not great or anything, but no longer killing the team every minute he plays.

One of those tweets makes the point that the schedule gets very easy right near the end of the regular season. I've been noticing Russ rubbing his knee a lot on the sidelines, and Beal just missed a game due to knee soreness. I wonder if the Wizards will decide to have Beal and Russ sit out the last 15 games or so once it becomes obvious that we have no chance at making the playoffs. We are already 4 games in the loss column behind the 10th seed. And there are only 34 games left in the season.

[NatP4]

KOC ranked Franz Wagner 9th overall in the Ringer draft review.