Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[pcbothwel]

Three way deal.

WAS out: Wall, Mahinmi, Burke, Smith, Oubre
WAS in: Cauley-Stein, Collison, Deng, Temple, Clarkson

SAC out: Cauley-Stein, Temple, Collison, Gay
SAC in: Wall, Mahinmi, Burke

LAL out: Clarkson, Deng
LAL in: Gay, Smith, Oubre

Washington adds a prospect in WCS and builds around Porter and Beal. Deng's deal is terrible, but in a swap for Mahinmi he might actually be a better fit in Washington spelling Porter and backing up Morris.

Collision is more than serviceable and Clarkson is the x-man playing both guard positions either as starter at PG or coming for the bench backing up both Beal and Collison.

Sacramento takes another shot at making it work with Wall, while adding salary cap flexibility.

Lakers give up Clarkson to shed Dengs deal and gain a prospect, as well as a more productive option at Small Forward to keep things interesting for this season.

Wow, I would expect better from you. You didn't acquire ONE sure-fire starter in that deal. Not one. It's just a collection of guys who ideally would make up your bench. More than $150 million in salaries too; and what's the point of having a bench if you just traded your best player?

Agree with DAT. Assuming you dont do a complete rebuild in trading Wall (Which could conceivably be done if we're bad enough to get a top 5 pick and combine that with the Wall return) then you have to get back one significant piece (I.e. Top 3 pick or elite young player)

Wall/Smith to Philly for Simmons/Holmes is a good starting place.
We suck the rest of the year and get a top 5-8 pick to take one of the PG's. Get 16-17M trade exception and use it for a Alec Burks/Faried type.

Dennis Smith / Sato
Beal / Burks
Otto / Oubre
Simmons / Morris / Holmes
Mahinmi / Gortat / Holmes

[TGW]

^^^Now we're talking. If you trade Wall, it better be worth it. Although Philly isn't making that deal.

[pcbothwel]

^^^Now we're talking. If you trade Wall, it better be worth it. Although Philly isn't making that deal.

Maybe, but what if we subbed out Smith for Markieff. I think Colangelo has trouble saying no. Add Jackson/Giles on the wing and go after Redick and Collison/Jennings in FA

Wall / Collison
Redick / Henderson
Jackson / Covington
Saric / Morris
Embiid / Okafor

[deneem4]

Trust me guys gortat is the guy we need to trade...we don't need to breakdown the team or go after the big star this season...we need to move
Gortat
Mahinmi
Nicholson
Smith
Burke

We need 2 bigs with a specialized skillset set
(I know I said this so many times)
Ersan
WCS
Faried
Kanter
Monroe
Cassipi

Those are jus the names I can think of off top who we can get without moving wall/beal/porter/morris/sato/oubre

[stevemcqueen1]

Let's not trade Wall. If you give up on him, you've given up on everything.

[TGW]

^^^Now we're talking. If you trade Wall, it better be worth it. Although Philly isn't making that deal.

Maybe, but what if we subbed out Smith for Markieff. I think Colangelo has trouble saying no. Add Jackson/Giles on the wing and go after Redick and Collison/Jennings in FA

Wall / Collison
Redick / Henderson
Jackson / Covington
Saric / Morris
Embiid / Okafor

I think the only way we get Simmons is if any combination of Wall, Beal, or a first is going to Philly. That kid has Lebron potential, and you don't trade that away for 2nd-tier stars.

[TGW]

Let's not trade Wall. If you give up on him, you've given up on everything.

I think people are giving up on the front office. Wall ain't the problem. Unfortunately, he's our best trade asset by a country mile, and in order to improve this decrepit roster, something wild may have to be done.

[payitforward]

...Wall/Smith to Philly for Simmons/Holmes is a good starting place...

That's a very clever idea -- well done!

I'm not as sure as Ruz that Philly would say no -- or, rather, maybe there's a deal with some minor changes. E.g. would we give Wall/Smith/Oubre for Simmons/Holmes/a R1 pick (not theirs, which will be very high, but assuming they have one to give that's lower in R1)?

Would we go for that? Would they (should they?) trade Simmons at all?

It would be great to get one of their 3 young bigs. Would we trade Oubre (+ something) for either Noel or Okafor? Would they? What's the "something?" For sure not our R1 pick.

[Ruzious]

...Wall/Smith to Philly for Simmons/Holmes is a good starting place...

That's a very clever idea -- well done!

I'm not as sure as Ruz that Philly would say no -- or, rather, maybe there's a deal with some minor changes. E.g. would we give Wall/Smith/Oubre for Simmons/Holmes/a R1 pick (not theirs, which will be very high, but assuming they have one to give that's lower in R1)?

Would we go for that? Would they (should they?) trade Simmons at all?

It would be great to get one of their 3 young bigs. Would we trade Oubre (+ something) for either Noel or Okafor? Would they? What's the "something?" For sure not our R1 pick.

Not sure I commented on that trade, but you're correct about my reaction - practically no chance that Philly entertains trading Simmons at this point.

[nate33]

Let's not trade Wall. If you give up on him, you've given up on everything.

I think people are giving up on the front office. Wall ain't the problem. Unfortunately, he's our best trade asset by a country mile, and in order to improve this decrepit roster, something wild may have to be done.

Yup. Wall is our best asset. And the other notable factor is that Wall's perceived value is probably a bit higher than his actual on-the-court value. Teams generally pay a premium for raw points, assists and rebounds and discount the value of efficiency and low turnovers.

We all love Wall, but deep down, we know that Wall falls a bit short of being a true superstar and will almost surely never get to that level because he shoots too inefficiently and turns the ball over too much. He's no Chris Paul or Steve Nash.

If we could trade him for Simmons or Embiid, tank for a season, and add one of the highly rated PG's in this draft, that would be a pretty impressive reset.

EDIT: to be clear, I'm not really in favor of blowing it up. But if we decided to go this route, this is the way to do it. Trade Wall for one legit superstar caliber talent - not a pooh pooh platter of middling role players.

[pcbothwel]

^^^Now we're talking. If you trade Wall, it better be worth it. Although Philly isn't making that deal.

Maybe, but what if we subbed out Smith for Markieff. I think Colangelo has trouble saying no. Add Jackson/Giles on the wing and go after Redick and Collison/Jennings in FA

Wall / Collison
Redick / Henderson
Jackson / Covington
Saric / Morris
Embiid / Okafor

I think the only way we get Simmons is if any combination of Wall, Beal, or a first is going to Philly. That kid has Lebron potential, and you don't trade that away for 2nd-tier stars.

Ehhh. Simmons is more Odom than Lebron. I think he'll be better than Odom and not crazy. But LeBron is/was a better athlete with a stronger focus/character. There is a reason he has the input/sway within the FO that he has. He has great talent, but he is even more driven, focused, and meticulous. He is truly generational.

Remember Wiggins. An absolute cant miss, generational talent. Well, he's in his third year and Otto Porter has proven to be a better player and it aint close. Wiggins is 20th in ORPM and 80th in DRPM at -2.36!!! with a ORtg/DRtg of 104/113.
Two years ago many would have traded Wall straight up for him and ALL of would have traded Porter, but now...ehhh

For Wall, Porzingis (Might happen with desperate Phil), KAT (Wont happen), Davis (Wont happen), and Antetokounmpo are the only other players I'd be in on for a straight swap. Obviously, this doesnt include teams that are competing and are poor trade partners (Warriors, Cavs, Spurs)

Denver is an interesting team due to their collection of talent...but thats it.

Thats why I would just stick with this team. I think Brooks starts bringing Oubre/Ian in for Morris/Gortat earlier in the 1st quarter so that they can come back in early in the 2nd to help Sato with the 2nd unit scoring.

[stevemcqueen1]

Let's not trade Wall. If you give up on him, you've given up on everything.

I think people are giving up on the front office. Wall ain't the problem. Unfortunately, he's our best trade asset by a country mile, and in order to improve this decrepit roster, something wild may have to be done.

He's our best asset because he's a franchise player, in his prime. That's what you're looking for. No matter what the state of the front office is, you only trade a franchise player if you know he's about to leave in free agency. Trading Wall is totally counterproductive when we still have almost three full seasons of team control left.

[stevemcqueen1]

We all love Wall, but deep down, we know that Wall falls a bit short of being a true superstar and will almost surely never get to that level because he shoots too inefficiently and turns the ball over too much. He's no Chris Paul or Steve Nash.

See this to me is giving up on Wall. I don't think he's going to be a Durant/LeBron/Curry/Westbrook caliber player either. But then this time two years ago I didn't think that Curry and Westbrook would be a Chris Paul or Steve Nash caliber players and they've both ended up being far better than Nash or Paul were at their peak.

I've been discouraged by Wall's defense this season, and it's worried me about his future. But even with those concerns, I don't think you can ever give up on a player like him. He's got the intangible make up and the extremely expansive game that you're looking for in a foundation player. We trade Wall and now we're in the position of looking for another Wall. And there is absolutely the possibility that Wall makes a leap to a higher level of play. Put a good team around him and his potential to play winning basketball on a consistent basis will increase.

[deneem4]

We all love Wall, but deep down, we know that Wall falls a bit short of being a true superstar and will almost surely never get to that level because he shoots too inefficiently and turns the ball over too much. He's no Chris Paul or Steve Nash.

See this to me is giving up on Wall. I don't think he's going to be a Durant/LeBron/Curry/Westbrook caliber player either. But then this time two years ago I didn't think that Curry and Westbrook would be a Chris Paul or Steve Nash caliber players and they've both ended up being far better than Nash or Paul were at their peak.

I've been discouraged by Wall's defense this season, and it's worried me about his future. But even with those concerns, I don't think you can ever give up on a player like him. He's got the intangible make up and the extremely expansive game that you're looking for in a foundation player. We trade Wall and now we're in the position of looking for another Wall. And there is absolutely the possibility that Wall makes a leap to a higher level of play. Put a good team around him and his potential to play winning basketball on a consistent basis will increase.

What people don't realize is wall has made a higher leap in his game this year...

He's posting his best shooting season so far...
he's averaging his most point
Turnover percentage is 4thlowest but his usage rate is the highest it's ever been...
Same with Beal

But this is the worst all around team we've had...
Gortat decline is really showing
Burke is bad
Sato needs time
Thronton is thronton
Smith Nicholson blah....

At least last yr we had temple dudley nene sessions
All those guys are capable backups..
Sato and oubre thorton seems to be our only nba caliber backups

The wall and gortat pick and roll is dead...and that's 1 thing that's hampering wall development...it shouldn't be the 1st option it should be the last...brooks have to unleash wall the same way we are unleashing Beal right now

[nate33]

What people don't realize is wall has made a higher leap in his game this year...

He's posting his best shooting season so far...
he's averaging his most point
Turnover percentage is 4thlowest but his usage rate is the highest it's ever been...
Same with Beal

But this is the worst all around team we've had...
Gortat decline is really showing
Burke is bad
Sato needs time
Thronton is thronton
Smith Nicholson blah....

At least last yr we had temple dudley nene sessions
All those guys are capable backups..
Sato and oubre thorton seems to be our only nba caliber backups

The wall and gortat pick and roll is dead...and that's 1 thing that's hampering wall development...it shouldn't be the 1st option it should be the last...brooks have to unleash wall the same way we are unleashing Beal right now

Wall's relatively craptastic last couple of games has brought down his numbers quite a bit. He is statistically no better than he was 2 and 3 years ago. His insanely high turnover rate is offsetting his improvement in FTA's.

[gambitx777]

wall does not have a no trade clause yet does he?

[Meliorus]

Why does everyone want to mess with the Wizard's starting 5 when they're ranked very high in the NBA as an unit.

Why not just upgrade the bench? The only starter we should trade is Gortat since he's old.

[deneem4]

Why does everyone want to mess with the Wizard's starting 5 when they're ranked very high in the NBA as an unit.

Why not just upgrade the bench? The only starter we should trade is Gortat since he's old.

Exactly....

Our core is 6 deep
Wall/beal/porter/morris/oubre/sato (I include morris cause he's cheap and his defense is valuable)

Gortat should be able to net us some legit bench guys...
All we missing is a scoring guard and a scoring big...
We should be ablessed to land those without moving any of those 6 guys

[Meliorus]

Why does everyone want to mess with the Wizard's starting 5 when they're ranked very high in the NBA as an unit.

Why not just upgrade the bench? The only starter we should trade is Gortat since he's old.

Exactly....

Our core is 6 deep
Wall/beal/porter/morris/oubre/sato (I include morris cause he's cheap and his defense is valuable)

Gortat should be able to net us some legit bench guys...
All we missing is a scoring guard and a scoring big...
We should be ablessed to land those without moving any of those 6 guys

Everyone wants to do some weird full rebuild but it doesn't work.

Having a mentality of building for the future is an infinite loop.
Be bad --> Draft player --> player becomes all-star --> team goes to playoffs multiple times --> team struggling --> trade away all-star

Better off executing small trades to get marginally better, because this team ISN'T far away from being a good team. Losing by 2 in San Antonio shows that. The only problems with this team are a piss-poor bench and an aging center. Not terribly hard to fix.

[deneem4]

Why does everyone want to mess with the Wizard's starting 5 when they're ranked very high in the NBA as an unit.

Why not just upgrade the bench? The only starter we should trade is Gortat since he's old.

Exactly....

Our core is 6 deep
Wall/beal/porter/morris/oubre/sato (I include morris cause he's cheap and his defense is valuable)

Gortat should be able to net us some legit bench guys...
All we missing is a scoring guard and a scoring big...
We should be ablessed to land those without moving any of those 6 guys

Everyone wants to do some weird full rebuild but it doesn't work.

Having a mentality of building for the future is an infinite loop.
Be bad --> Draft player --> player becomes all-star --> team goes to playoffs multiple times --> team struggling --> trade away all-star

Better off executing small trades to get marginally better, because this team ISN'T far away from being a good team. Losing by 2 in San Antonio shows that. The only problem with this team is a piss-poor bench, and that's not too hard to fix.

It's not hard to fix but we are attached to looking for starters rather than building around our young guys...
Gortat dont mesh with wall and beal....period on a bringing the best out of them mindset
Wall needs floor spacing the more paint space he has to operate the better he plays....
Same with Beal...he's not the best attacker but he's clever with his moves it doesn't help him if u have a big who's attached to the paint...
Gortat can't operate with the ball other than driving to the rim for a score...don't get me wrong it's alot of other bigs like that but they are elite in other areas...

Same with Morris he can work in the iso but there's always a help defender down low because gortat stays in the paint...

It's a reason there's not a lot of bigs like gortat in the league...there's no need for them in tokays nba...

We need to trade him or mahnimi....gets a big who can
1..shoot the 3
2..protect the rim
OR 3...have elite athleticism to maximize our athleticism especially on fastbreaks...

We are still behind in becoming a modern nba team and we have the personal in all starting positions but the center postion...

Our bench sucks because we tried to replicate our starters
Any fan can see that
Wall/sato = athletic non shooting point with good vision
Beal/thronton = 3 pt gunner
Porter/oubre = long energy slashing forward
Morris/Nicholson = iso pf with 3pt range
Gortat/Smith = pnr big with limited range but (fake) tough around the rim

Teams gameplan for our starters but they're too talented
..when it comes to our bench they play the same and they are stopped very easy....

We need to bring in some versatility...that's the difference between us and every other good team in the league period