Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3

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Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#1 » by RealGM Wiretap » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:55 pm

The Toronto Raptors and Orlando Magic have made offers to the Cleveland Cavaliers to move up to No. 3, sources tell The Ringer.


The Cavaliers have received significant trade interest in the pick in general.


While this draft began as having a top-5, Jalen Suggs and Jonathan Kuminga have appeared to drop out of what is a top-3 in Cade Cunningham, Jalen Green and Evan Mobley.


The Magic own picks No. 5 and No. 8, while the Raptors are at No. 4.

Via Kevin O'Connor/The Ringer

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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#2 » by Def Leppard » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:09 pm

Suggs is a sure thing.

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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#3 » by dubbmotta » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:32 pm

If i'm the cavs I'm trading the 3rd for the Magic's 5th and 8th pick. Cavs got to build through the draft, will never be a desirable free agent city.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#4 » by Trailbreaker » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:44 pm

dubbmotta wrote:If i'm the cavs I'm trading the 3rd for the Magic's 5th and 8th pick. Cavs got to build through the draft, will never be a desirable free agent city.

Me personally I'd pass on that unless Orlando was interested in giving a future first as well. I like Evan Mobley.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#5 » by CLosP » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:47 pm

Orlando needs to do everything they can to move up. Green would seem to be the target but does he end up going to Houston anyways at #2?
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#6 » by njknicks » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:53 pm

NBA teams need to re-evaluate how the look at players.

Why trade up when you can have diamonds in the ruff if you stand pat.

You have recent MVPS ( Jokic / Giannis ) drafted completely outside of top 10 - Jokic in the 2nd round - and plenty of other examples of great players lurking.

Both Jokic / Giannis really is a testament to the Nuggets & Bucks going all in on there player development and investing fully into the players growth.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#7 » by tiderulz » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:13 pm

Trailbreaker wrote:
dubbmotta wrote:If i'm the cavs I'm trading the 3rd for the Magic's 5th and 8th pick. Cavs got to build through the draft, will never be a desirable free agent city.

Me personally I'd pass on that unless Orlando was interested in giving a future first as well. I like Evan Mobley.

Orlando shouldnt even be considering doing 5 & 8 to move up 2 spots. recent precedent is a protected pick from 2 spots.

i happily sit back at 5 and 8 and take BPA to increase overall talent, which is sorely needed
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#8 » by Trailbreaker » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:00 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Trailbreaker wrote:
dubbmotta wrote:If i'm the cavs I'm trading the 3rd for the Magic's 5th and 8th pick. Cavs got to build through the draft, will never be a desirable free agent city.

Me personally I'd pass on that unless Orlando was interested in giving a future first as well. I like Evan Mobley.

Orlando shouldnt even be considering doing 5 & 8 to move up 2 spots. recent precedent is a protected pick from 2 spots.

i happily sit back at 5 and 8 and take BPA to increase overall talent, which is sorely needed

That's exactly why if I were Koby I'd see how desperate Orlando is to move up.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#9 » by Revenged25 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:05 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Trailbreaker wrote:
dubbmotta wrote:If i'm the cavs I'm trading the 3rd for the Magic's 5th and 8th pick. Cavs got to build through the draft, will never be a desirable free agent city.

Me personally I'd pass on that unless Orlando was interested in giving a future first as well. I like Evan Mobley.

Orlando shouldnt even be considering doing 5 & 8 to move up 2 spots. recent precedent is a protected pick from 2 spots.

i happily sit back at 5 and 8 and take BPA to increase overall talent, which is sorely needed


You mean the precedent of 2 prospects in the same tier? Fultz/Tatum and Doncic/Trae were seen as same tiers of players. There is a massive difference in perception of the top 3 in this draft and those behind them.

Also no matter how much you increase the talent, if you don't have a franchise player then you'll constantly be a treadmill team at best. Part of why it's hard for the Cavs to trade back is because they need a "franchise" player, I think Sexton is close but not quite there, and that's going to be Mobley/Green.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#10 » by The Lamma » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:09 pm

CLosP wrote:Orlando needs to do everything they can to move up. Green would seem to be the target but does he end up going to Houston anyways at #2?


If you believe the rumors, Houston is leaning Green here, so yes.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#11 » by tiderulz » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:22 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Trailbreaker wrote:Me personally I'd pass on that unless Orlando was interested in giving a future first as well. I like Evan Mobley.

Orlando shouldnt even be considering doing 5 & 8 to move up 2 spots. recent precedent is a protected pick from 2 spots.

i happily sit back at 5 and 8 and take BPA to increase overall talent, which is sorely needed


You mean the precedent of 2 prospects in the same tier? Fultz/Tatum and Doncic/Trae were seen as same tiers of players. There is a massive difference in perception of the top 3 in this draft and those behind them.

Also no matter how much you increase the talent, if you don't have a franchise player then you'll constantly be a treadmill team at best. Part of why it's hard for the Cavs to trade back is because they need a "franchise" player, I think Sexton is close but not quite there, and that's going to be Mobley/Green.

but you can also trade for a franchise player. having good young players gives you those assets. you dont overpay unless it is for a guaranteed franchise player, which none of these are.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#12 » by dougthonus » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:25 pm

njknicks wrote:NBA teams need to re-evaluate how the look at players.

Why trade up when you can have diamonds in the ruff if you stand pat.

You have recent MVPS ( Jokic / Giannis ) drafted completely outside of top 10 - Jokic in the 2nd round - and plenty of other examples of great players lurking.

Both Jokic / Giannis really is a testament to the Nuggets & Bucks going all in on there player development and investing fully into the players growth.


It is a confidence curve, you can draft start players later, but they are more likely earlier. You can simply look up the stats and see the likelihood. You can also tell, to some degree, how good the confidence is in any given draft. You know drafts where there are guys that simply stand out compared to other guys, and you can rarely trade for those guys anyway.

Quite simply, if I'm the Cavs and I can get #5 and #8 for #3, then I take that deal only if I believe there isn't a big gap between #3 and #5 in my personal board. If I'm on the fence with the guy available at #3 then sure. If I think he is a different tier, then odds are that in a typical draft, the #8 talent probably has a median outcome of low end starter, I don't sacrifice a guy I think has star potential for one that I'm less certain on due to that.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#13 » by Slim Charless » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:04 pm

Why isn't OKC involved in this? Green would seem to be a perfect backcourt mate for SGA. They move 6 and whatever else to lock that pairing down for the next 10 years and build around that.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#14 » by Yuri Vaultin » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:07 pm

dubbmotta wrote:If i'm the cavs I'm trading the 3rd for the Magic's 5th and 8th pick. Cavs got to build through the draft, will never be a desirable free agent city.

You do not trade a dollar for 2 quarters.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#15 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:23 pm

I don't see this happening unless the Cavs really want to draft another PG... then something with Toronto where they end up with Suggs may make sense, but obviously the reason these teams want to move up is because the top-3 is quickly turning in to a distinct tier.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#16 » by Best2EverDoIt » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:34 pm

Slim Charless wrote:Why isn't OKC involved in this? Green would seem to be a perfect backcourt mate for SGA. They move 6 and whatever else to lock that pairing down for the next 10 years and build around that.
My thoughts exactly. OKC could send the Rockets their future picks back. And could send more than any of the teams in front of them have to offer. We don't need half of the picks we've accumulated.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#17 » by njknicks » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:31 pm

dougthonus wrote:
njknicks wrote:NBA teams need to re-evaluate how the look at players.

Why trade up when you can have diamonds in the ruff if you stand pat.

You have recent MVPS ( Jokic / Giannis ) drafted completely outside of top 10 - Jokic in the 2nd round - and plenty of other examples of great players lurking.

Both Jokic / Giannis really is a testament to the Nuggets & Bucks going all in on there player development and investing fully into the players growth.


It is a confidence curve, you can draft start players later, but they are more likely earlier. You can simply look up the stats and see the likelihood. You can also tell, to some degree, how good the confidence is in any given draft. You know drafts where there are guys that simply stand out compared to other guys, and you can rarely trade for those guys anyway.

Quite simply, if I'm the Cavs and I can get #5 and #8 for #3, then I take that deal only if I believe there isn't a big gap between #3 and #5 in my personal board. If I'm on the fence with the guy available at #3 then sure. If I think he is a different tier, then odds are that in a typical draft, the #8 talent probably has a median outcome of low end starter, I don't sacrifice a guy I think has star potential for one that I'm less certain on due to that.


Absolutely agree with the assessment - interestingly enough, there was some research done regarding the value of picks through draft history ( until 2008 ) -- would have been fantastic if that assessment continued through 2021. But you put it best - confidence curve indeed.

82 games article :
http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#18 » by shadrock » Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:39 am

tiderulz wrote:
Trailbreaker wrote:
dubbmotta wrote:If i'm the cavs I'm trading the 3rd for the Magic's 5th and 8th pick. Cavs got to build through the draft, will never be a desirable free agent city.

Me personally I'd pass on that unless Orlando was interested in giving a future first as well. I like Evan Mobley.

Orlando shouldnt even be considering doing 5 & 8 to move up 2 spots. recent precedent is a protected pick from 2 spots.

i happily sit back at 5 and 8 and take BPA to increase overall talent, which is sorely needed


Its got nothing to do with "two spots" and everything to do with the talent difference. The difference between Green or say Kuminga is absolutely worth the 8th pick.
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#19 » by Stillwater » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:01 pm

It is going to take a overpay to get CLE to pass on 1 of the top 3 prospects and I mean a massive overpay.
I need 4 and OG for one of the Cavs end of rotation players and a future protected to even think about dropping out of that tier.
I need 5,8,33 and at least Okeke and only if MObley is already gone where I am giving up Green in favor of Suggs or Barnes at 5.
I need 6 16 18 Poku and Maledon to move down to Kuminga Johnson tier etc...same as above only if it is Green I am passing on not Mobley or cade
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Re: Raptors, Magic Make Trade Offers To Cavaliers For No. 3 

Post#20 » by Dennis 37 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:57 pm

Yuri Vaultin wrote:
dubbmotta wrote:If i'm the cavs I'm trading the 3rd for the Magic's 5th and 8th pick. Cavs got to build through the draft, will never be a desirable free agent city.

You do not trade a dollar for 2 quarters.


His logic is that the 3rd pick is gone at the first chance at FA. The 5th and 8th will be easier for Cavs to hold on to.

Did LeBron or Kyrie stick around long term?

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