Euroleague discussion thread

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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#201 » by BlueSan » Tue May 8, 2018 9:43 pm

Who is going to be the MVP guys? Cast your votes
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#202 » by UcanUwill » Wed May 9, 2018 5:03 am

De Colo
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#203 » by BlueSan » Wed May 9, 2018 3:11 pm

Here is my opinion based on what we know.

1. To make it more simple and easy, let us just talk about 3 guys who I think are in serious discussion for the MVP

A) Calathes
B) Doncic
C) De Colo

First of all we have to know that the decision is taken based on 75,00% media and 25,00% public.

The public voting is also that...public and by the looks of it, we will have:
A) Calathes at nm. 1
B) Doncic at nm. 2
C) De Colo at nm 7

Next I think, if we are to be serious about this we need to start with facts and statistics, this is something media guys who will score will look also closely.

AVERAGE PLAYING TIME

This one is important, because all the STATS that will follow could be deflated or inflated based on this. If someone spends 5 more minutes on the court and that can literally mean from 20-30% more time to increase most of the stats.

A) - Calathes = 29:00 minutes
B) - Doncic = 25:43 minutes
C) - De Colo = 25:46 minutes

So basically De Colo and Doncic are close but Calathes spends 10% + more time on the court then those two. We will keep that in mind watching the stats.

Next up are

POINTS

A) - Calathes = 14,5
B) - Doncic = 16,1
C) - De Colo = 16,9

Difference here isnt so big, but remember Calathes spends 10%+ more on the court, so Doncic and De Colo are better in that segment for about 3 points per game.

REBOUNDS

A) - Calathes = 3,8
B) - Doncic = 4,8
C) - De Colo = 2,3

So here De Colo is third in helping his team with the jumping, Calathes is definitely second even though he gets a 10%+ boost and Doncic is alone at the top.


ASSISTS

A) - Calathes = 8,0
B) - Doncic = 4,4
C) - De Colo = 3,9

Here Calatches even with his 10% adventage is 3,00 whole assists above both players and deservingly holds the number one spot, we also need to take into account that this year Calathes broke the all time record for assissts in Euroleague.

STEALS

A) - Calathes = 1,7
B) - Doncic = 1,1
C) - De Colo = 1,3

Calathes leads but with his 10% boost, not by much really...


TURNOVERS

A) - Calathes = 2,3
B) - Doncic = 2,3
C) - De Colo = 2,3

Here Calathes spending more time on the court actually gives him an adventage but it doesnt make a difference, they are all about the same

DRAWING FOULS

A) - Calathes = 3,4
B) - Doncic = 5,7
C) - De Colo = 4,7

Drawing fouls is important and shows a lot of things. One of it is that the guy can get the line if needed, second that he is a handful and opponents need to stop him with fouls...
Doncic leads the way, De Colo is not that far behind, but Calathes considering the 10% bonus is quite dead last here.


I will skip the blocks etc, as no one does much here really.

The final statistic, instead of going into shooting percentage and what not, we will instead of use PIR, since PIR indicates whether a player is wasting shots amongst others and is a good indicator on how the player is helping his team.

PIR

A) - Calathes = 18,5
B) - Doncic = 21,8
C) - De Colo = 19,8

PIR shows well enough that Calathes' has problem with the shooting % because otherwise he should be close to the top because of assists alone, but he is not, because of his inability to draw fouls and mostly because he is shooting ridiculously bad from FREE THROWS 57,60%. For a pointguard this is absurdly low and in fact Calathes has cost his team 42 points for that alone.

De Colo is second here mostly because he is the best shooter or lets say picks his shots extremely well also.

Doncic however is on top with 2 points advantage over De Colo which is not a small margin, especially if we take into account some other factors.


All and all the three are not miles appart at least at the first glance, but I do think it is safe to say statistically it goes like this:

Doncic is ahead, De Colo is closely following second and Calathes I believe is a grade behind.

Now the next important thing to note is that MVP is usually someone who has done something with his team and by that we mostly mean at least get them to the final 4. Calathes has failed to do just that and together with the above Statistics, I think that should put him out of contention for the MVP and I believe only his FANS and the fact he broke the all time assists is keeping him in the race somewhat.

De Colo I believe comes second. His team is really good and that plays a role, next to that he also has incredibly high % of shooting and that is definitely important, but in the End I think Doncic edges him for a couple of reasons.


1) We do know Real Madrid was in shambles by losing their MVP of 2017 and Doncic had to take over.
2) The fact that he is 18/19 like it or not will play a role in this decision, because it makes it that more impresive
3) The guy was also 4 times MVP of the week, the youngest MVP of the month, now rising star of Euroleague award second time in a row. Here just like Calathes he has draw new borders for players and Euroleague. That is important
4) Like it or not, it is almost destined he does it because of the "hype" as well

- Gold with small country of Slovenia Eurobasket aged 18
- Takes over Real Madrid team
- Leads in PIR, collects rewards left and right
- Predicted to go 1-3 in the draft
- Age of 18-19
- Once in a life talent

...MVP of the league considering all above I as objectively as possible believe is the next logical and I think fair step.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#204 » by UcanUwill » Wed May 9, 2018 3:22 pm

What do you think of Hines wining DPOY? Are there no better options? I guess he is better than Hanga. who is flashy shotblocker, but not the most fundamental defender. Would Hines work in the NBA today, with less and less dominant post players, his size disadvantage would not be that big of the deal. I remember him guarding Pekovic back in the day, and man Pek towered over that guy.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#205 » by BlueSan » Wed May 9, 2018 3:33 pm

My personal opinion regarding the matter is, that Kyle Hines deserves the award sure. As for him working in the NBA it is hard to say, because of totally different defense being played.
In NBA there is a lot of Isolation because NBA allows it, the rules and spacing are set in such a way, while in Europe there is a lot more covering and team defending, so like I already mentioned, people who think NBA superstars in Euroleague have averages of 30-40 points per game and similar can just forget it.
Nowdays its too late to talk about Hines, because at the age of 31 and him being not exactly a prolific scorer, personally I dont know if it is worth signing the guy...had he been young developing player sure, I think he would work and you would have a really good basis to work with, but as it is, it would be hard to take a way a place on the floor from somebody to justify playing Hines just because you hope he can maybe bring his defense to NBA, which I personally think he could do to a certain level, but definitely not all of it.

Hope that answers your question and my personal thoughts on the matter
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#206 » by THE J0KER » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:30 pm

Jordi Bertomeu letter to EuroLeague fans (due Coronavirus crisis):

Dear Fans,

I want to thank all of you for the passion and commitment that you continue showing Euroleague Basketball in the most difficult situation we have lived in our 20-year history. Since the very first moment when the COVID-19 virus arrived to Europe, we have taken this issue with the maximum seriousness and meticulously following the instructions of national and regional governments, as well as those of the relevant global authorities. This has led us to take unpopular decisions including playing games behind closed doors or relocating games that damaged our most precious treasure, the fans, and ultimately the escalation has forced us to temporarily suspend our competitions to protect participants and fans as well as to contribute to the efforts that our communities are making to fight the global pandemic altogether. Our games will be suspended until at least April 11, 2020 and we remain committed to deliver an ending to what has been an outstanding season so far. If the entire situation has brought anything good, it is more evidence that the Euroleague Basketball family is a unique community that everyone can feel very proud to belong to. We will continue serving you with content from our competitions across euroleague.net and official social media platforms, where you will also find further updates on the COVID-19 situation. We will also work in close partnership with our rightsholders to entertain fans who find themselves in an unusual situation. We hope that we can count a 'win' and that the competitions can be resumed as soon as possible. Euroleague Basketball will continue monitoring the situation on a daily basis, as our Medical Officer works in partnership with public health experts to ensure that this occurs when the environment is safe to do so. Meanwhile, we encourage you to follow all precautionary measures that are recommended by your public health authorities and the World Health Organization to prevent the spread of the virus as much as possible.

Best regards,
Jordi Bertomeu
President & CEO
Euroleague Basketball

Courtesy of: euroleague.net
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#207 » by UcanUwill » Mon Jul 6, 2020 3:57 pm

Season was cut short, but if we had to vote for MVP, DPOY and All-Euroleague teams, who would you pick? My picks :

MVP : Shane Larkin
DPOY : Chris Singleton

All-Euroleague first team :

Nikola Milutinov
Nikola Mirotic
Shane Larkin
Mike James
Facundo Campazzo

All-Euroleague second team :

Bojan Dubljevic
Tornike Shengelia
Nando De Colo
Alexey Shved
Nick Calathes
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#208 » by Maccabi95 » Mon Jul 6, 2020 4:15 pm

First-team:

Mulitinov
Mirotic
Larkin
Campazzo
James

Second-team:

Tavares
Gill
Shengelia
Wilbekin
Micic
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#209 » by UcanUwill » Mon Jul 6, 2020 4:19 pm

Maccabi95 wrote:First-team:

Mulitinov
Mirotic
Larkin
Campazzo
James

Second-team:

Tavares
Gill
Shengelia
Wilbekin
Micic


Are you guilty of putting 3 PGs on first team? In old days, the format was basically PG, swingman, swingman, forward, center, but Euroleague became liberal with positions. I was thinking of putting De Colo on first team (he was still very good, 50/40/90), but at the end i thought, there is no way Campazzo, James and Larkin arent all first team All-E.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#210 » by Maccabi95 » Mon Jul 6, 2020 4:38 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
Maccabi95 wrote:First-team:

Mulitinov
Mirotic
Larkin
Campazzo
James

Second-team:

Tavares
Gill
Shengelia
Wilbekin
Micic


Are you guilty of putting 3 PGs on first team? In old days, the format was basically PG, swingman, swingman, forward, center, but Euroleague became liberal with positions. I was thinking of putting De Colo on first team (he was still very good, 50/40/90), but at the end i thought, there is no way Campazzo, James and Larkin arent all first team All-E.


I am, but there's a lack of true wings in current EL. I don't think I included a wing at all.

Like... Shavon Shields or Rokas Giedraitis or someone like that making an all-EL team over more deserving players just because you needed a wing on the team would be a shame, despite those guys being good players.

It's hard for me to envision an all-EL team without Wilbekin considering how important he was to Maccabi's turnaround this season, but given how guard-heavy the league is, I almost understand it.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#211 » by UcanUwill » Mon Jul 6, 2020 4:41 pm

Maccabi95 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
Maccabi95 wrote:First-team:

Mulitinov
Mirotic
Larkin
Campazzo
James

Second-team:

Tavares
Gill
Shengelia
Wilbekin
Micic


Are you guilty of putting 3 PGs on first team? In old days, the format was basically PG, swingman, swingman, forward, center, but Euroleague became liberal with positions. I was thinking of putting De Colo on first team (he was still very good, 50/40/90), but at the end i thought, there is no way Campazzo, James and Larkin arent all first team All-E.


I am, but there's a lack of true wings in current EL. I don't think I included a wing at all.

Like... Shavon Shields or Rokas Giedraitis or someone like that making an all-EL team over more deserving players just because you needed a wing on the team would be a shame, despite those guys being good players.

It's hard for me to envision an all-EL team without Wilbekin considering how important he was to Maccabi's turnaround this season, but given how guard-heavy the league is, I almost understand it.


Wilbekin was definitely one of the final cuts I made. I just went with Calathes at the end, because PAO is so reliant on him, he plays over 32 minutes per game and his scoring efficiency became somewhat passable.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#212 » by Maccabi95 » Mon Jul 6, 2020 5:30 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
Maccabi95 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
Are you guilty of putting 3 PGs on first team? In old days, the format was basically PG, swingman, swingman, forward, center, but Euroleague became liberal with positions. I was thinking of putting De Colo on first team (he was still very good, 50/40/90), but at the end i thought, there is no way Campazzo, James and Larkin arent all first team All-E.


I am, but there's a lack of true wings in current EL. I don't think I included a wing at all.

Like... Shavon Shields or Rokas Giedraitis or someone like that making an all-EL team over more deserving players just because you needed a wing on the team would be a shame, despite those guys being good players.

It's hard for me to envision an all-EL team without Wilbekin considering how important he was to Maccabi's turnaround this season, but given how guard-heavy the league is, I almost understand it.


Wilbekin was definitely one of the final cuts I made. I just went with Calathes at the end, because PAO is so reliant on him, he plays over 32 minutes per game and his scoring efficiency became somewhat passable.


Yeah, a lot of good guards right now.

Not a huge fan of the Shved pick, though. I know he's scoring a lot but last year was on 48.5 eFG% on an underachieving team (not like he's Calathes and is carrying a roster by himself -- Khimki should be good with Jovic, Bertans, Karasev, Timma, Jerekbo, Gill, and Booker).
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#213 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:30 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Season was cut short, but if we had to vote for MVP, DPOY and All-Euroleague teams, who would you pick? My picks :

MVP : Shane Larkin
DPOY : Chris Singleton

All-Euroleague first team :

Nikola Milutinov
Nikola Mirotic
Shane Larkin
Mike James
Facundo Campazzo

All-Euroleague second team :

Bojan Dubljevic
Tornike Shengelia
Nando De Colo
Alexey Shved
Nick Calathes


You are seriously overrating Singleton........he's one of the most inconsistent players in Europe.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#214 » by UcanUwill » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:05 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Season was cut short, but if we had to vote for MVP, DPOY and All-Euroleague teams, who would you pick? My picks :

MVP : Shane Larkin
DPOY : Chris Singleton

All-Euroleague first team :

Nikola Milutinov
Nikola Mirotic
Shane Larkin
Mike James
Facundo Campazzo

All-Euroleague second team :

Bojan Dubljevic
Tornike Shengelia
Nando De Colo
Alexey Shved
Nick Calathes


You are seriously overrating Singleton........he's one of the most inconsistent players in Europe.


Defensively? He is one of those guys who can end up with zero points and still have big impact on the game.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#215 » by Mirotic12 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:15 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Defensively? He is one of those guys who can end up with zero points and still have big impact on the game.


OK, if we are talking just defense - if he's in the right role and team, then he's certainly a very good team defender. However, his man defense is average. And if he's in space trying to defend skilled quick guards on his own, he can't do it unless he has good help behind him. He's also not all that physical, and not much of a shot blocker on a consistent basis. Not defensive player of the year material.

He's a good all round defender in that he's smart on defense, he's versatile, he's mobile, and he's good on team defense. But he's not the kind of game changer on defense that would be the best defender in a league.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#216 » by UcanUwill » Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:42 am

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Defensively? He is one of those guys who can end up with zero points and still have big impact on the game.


OK, if we are talking just defense - if he's in the right role and team, then he's certainly a very good team defender. However, his man defense is average. And if he's in space trying to defend skilled quick guards on his own, he can't do it unless he has good help behind him. He's also not all that physical, and not much of a shot blocker on a consistent basis. Not defensive player of the year material.

He's a good all round defender in that he's smart on defense, he's versatile, he's mobile, and he's good on team defense. But he's not the kind of game changer on defense that would be the best defender in a league.


Every time I watch him, hes is always very good. He is not a shot blocker, but almost no one in Euroleague is. I mean Tavares is, but he doesnt even pretent to defend outside 10 feet and more.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#217 » by Fundamentals21 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:24 pm

I'll post my rankings up later for some great discussion. Can't believe the power rankings still have CSKA Moscow at the top. I'd have loved much better competition for my first seed. That being said, Euroleague's flourishing with great prospects all round, as I can see in the NBA (see: Doncic, one of the many euro successes in the NBA).

I still like Lithuania in FIBA rankings as the God of Basketball. Never seen a nation more passionate about all things basketball.

Personally from the Knicks I loved watching Ignas and Nitilinka. Both ultra bright prospects with tremendous ball knowledge. Nitilinka IMO will be elite at the international level, though I dunno if he'll make it to the Silver seed in the olympics. Still willing to wait and see how he turns out.

I believe CSKA Moscow is worth some analysis from me, as well as some other teams. I'll post my player rankings up after.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#218 » by UcanUwill » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:21 am

Fundamentals21 wrote:I'll post my rankings up later for some great discussion. Can't believe the power rankings still have CSKA Moscow at the top. I'd have loved much better competition for my first seed. That being said, Euroleague's flourishing with great prospects all round, as I can see in the NBA (see: Doncic, one of the many euro successes in the NBA).

I still like Lithuania in FIBA rankings as the God of Basketball. Never seen a nation more passionate about all things basketball.

Personally from the Knicks I loved watching Ignas and Nitilinka. Both ultra bright prospects with tremendous ball knowledge. Nitilinka IMO will be elite at the international level, though I dunno if he'll make it to the Silver seed in the olympics. Still willing to wait and see how he turns out.

I believe CSKA Moscow is worth some analysis from me, as well as some other teams. I'll post my player rankings up after.


Cant wait for your input man, I love when people post here, which happens like once a year sadly :lol:

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