Fake Trade Thread #3

[316Hornets]

.

Asked some people over at the Warriors board. They do not seem to be interested in your Rozier for a protected 1st even if they did have the matching salary or TPE.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=86622285#p86622285

They don't sound too bright, considering Rozier isn't a prototypical PG and played fine beside Devonte. He plays better off-ball, catching and shooting like Klay.

[316Hornets]

Only 3 guards had higher Efg% in catch and shoot than Rozier

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/catch-shoot/?sort=CATCH_SHOOT_EFG_PCT&dir=1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StarterBench=Starters&CF=GP*G*25&PlayerPosition=G

[Braggins]

My problems with Rozier are that hes generally a pretty low IQ player, hes a terrible defensive fit with Graham/Monk (also bad on offense with Monk), and I don't trust him to continue to shoot so well from outside.

I don't hate him and actually agree that losing him in a pure salary dump would be less than ideal from a asset management perspective, but we have put ourselves into a bind committing to this Hayward deal and we absolutely cannot let the Batum stretch scenario happen. Although losing him in a salary dump wouldn't be ideal, it does create the most possible future cap flexibility, which isn't nothing.

[wilson115]

and we absolutely cannot let the Batum stretch scenario happen.

(sigh) No answer for this. Best argument for a Rozier trade.

[316Hornets]

My problems with Rozier are that hes generally a pretty low IQ player, hes a terrible defensive fit with Graham/Monk (also bad on offense with Monk), and I don't trust him to continue to shoot so well from outside.

I don't hate him and actually agree that losing him in a pure salary dump would be less than ideal from a asset management perspective, but we have put ourselves into a bind committing to this Hayward deal and we absolutely cannot let the Batum stretch scenario happen. Although losing him in a salary dump wouldn't be ideal, it does create the most possible future cap flexibility, which isn't nothing.

Why don't you trust him to keep shooting high percentage? Everything I've seen from him is hard work and hitting the gym constantly.

And who cares who fits with Monk? He hasn't done anything since being drafted besides his drug binge.

That said, I do think we should trade Rozier but definitely not for nothing.

[fox2jk]

Not sure what the Bulls would think of this but

Rozier

for

Thad Young
Wendell Carter Jr

[stinger14]

Batum to the Knicks, Randle to the Pacers, Mykes Turner to the Hornets. Obviously there would be picks involved, and maybe smaller contracts. Is there a possibility here? What completes this trade.

[JMAC3]

Wanted to get some ideas out on paper.

Basically the main reason it sucks to stretch Batum over the next three years is because it's dead cap. You can't include dead cap in a trade so we are stuck with that for the following two years no matter what. A player at 10 million would be much better because you could eventually trade them as an expiring, but dead cap is just dead.

So what is that worth for us?

I think it is unlikely at this point Rozier or Zeller are heading back to Boston in a sign and trade. I think it much more likely that we would be helping Boston create a 30 million trade exception that they can use to bring in a player later in the year (Capela, Harrison Barnes, Steven Adams, Aaron Gordon etc..). Without the exception Boston would basically be hard capped and not able to add any additional significant pieces throughout the season. With the exception it allows them to pull in a meaningful player into the exception without having to send anything back in terms of salary. What Warriors just did with Oubre, honestly trade exceptions are a bit OVERPOWERED in my mind.

Most likely Boston will send us future second round pick or two for the exception. Unfortunately they do not own any additional future firsts- can't believe we can finally say that.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

So we basically could try to deal someone valued at 10+ million on our team to a team with cap space. The only teams with real cap space right now are the Knicks. One of Atlanta or Sacramento will have cap space depending if Bogdanovic becomes a sign and trade. If Atlanta sends out some salary they will still have cap space, but if they sign him outright Sacramentowill have roughly 9-10 million if Cap Space. They also have not used their MLE yet, so they have some options to still improve their team.

Kings (without Bog) Have about 9 million in cap space, so a few options would:

1. Send Rozier (18.9 Mil) to them for Cory Joseph. Joseph is owed 12.6 million this year so we would be cutting 6.3 million from our books, which might be enough due to backloading Hayward contract. Joseph is owed 12.6 million next year but only 2.4 million of it is guaranteed. They might want a second rounder to take on Rozier contract next year, or they might throw in a second rounder for the upgrade to Rozier. (Not sure how they feel about players, this is just me focusing on Dollars).

2. Send Batum (27.4 million) to Kings for Harrison Barnes(22.2 million) So this would only be saving us 5.2 million from our books, so this is 1 million short of the previous deal I offered so it would be even more difficult to backload Hayward deal and this obviously takes stretching Batum out of the deal because he is included in it. Kings would be taking significant hit to their team for this year by doing this, but most in the league view Barnes as a negative contract with another 3/60 on his deal left.

This is where the deal could get tricky, because again this would not be enough space so there's a chance the Hornets would have to add someone else to the deal. Monk could make sense and that would get the Hornets under the cap, but is Batum and Monk for 3 years of Barnes a bad deal? Barnes deal is front loaded so it goes 22, 20, 18 which is not as bad as it once was thought to be. Maybe the Kings would throw in a few 2nd round picks for dumping Barnes and getting Monk?

This would give the Hornets another solid player on the wing/stretch 4. but I am not sure this is the best deal out there.

Moving onto Hawks (with Bog)

By my calculations of the Hawks giving Gallo 20, Bog 18, Rondo 7.3, and Dunn 4.7 (MLE so doesn't count against the cap) They still have roughly 8 million or so in real cap space.

1. Rozier(18.9) for Snell (12.6) framework could make sense similar to what I was saying above about a Cory Joseph swap. Again not sure what team sends extra second round picks back and forth.

2. Would be more complicated, but Batum (27.4) for Capela (16 million) Could have some possibilities if the Hornets would be willing to throw in a future 1st round rounder. The Hawks invested a top 6 pick on Okongwu and have Collins still as well. They could be having buyers remorse and willing to eat Batum's deal for the future savings and first.

Lastly I will circle back to Knicks who still have roughly 20+ million

1. They take Rozier 18.9 into their cap space, not sure if we can get something back like a second rounder or so or maybe they would prefer to dump Dennis Smith Jr back (5.6) or French Frank back (6.1) either way we would be getting 12 million or so space which is enough that we can keep Batum without stretching his deal.

2. We send them Batum (27.4) for Randle (18.9). This opens up 8.5 million in cap space for Hayward so we do not have to cut or stretch anyone on the roster. However, the Knicks would need an asset back for doing this deal. Randle is under contract next season for 19.8 million but only 4 million is guaranteed. That means we could cut him and only have 4 million in dead cap compared to 9 that season and 9 the following. Also, Randle is a decent player, but nothing spectacular. He would give us a solid bench big to play some minutes at Center and PF, either way though he is a major upgrade over Batum corpse/Batum 18 million dead money moving forward.

The Question is what would we be willing to give up to entice the Knicks to do this deal. We could give them a future first obviously protected or swap rights potentially. We could give them Bridges. We could throw in Monk. On deals we throw in Monk or Bridges we could potentially get Knox or DSJ/French Frank back without losing the cap space we need. Just depends on how much the Knicks value the talent upgrade between the prospects swapped.

Thank you for coming to my TedTalk. Really the thing I learned through this experience is there are limited options in order to not stretch Batum. We put ourselves into a difficult position, but the opportunity to add Hayward I believe will be worth it in the end.

Let me know which of these options you prefer. Thanks.

[Braggins]

I like Rozier for Snell the best by far. Hes a reasonable stopgap wing that would balance our rotation, his contract is expiring, and his salary is low enough to get us into range for the Hayward deal without doing anything else. I actually think hed probably end up starting. I don't know if Atlanta would really be interested in doing that swap. They do have a fair amount of wings and their only backup PG is Rondo, but I really don't know what they're interested in.

Graham/Monk/Riller
Snell/Ball
Hayward/Martin
PJ/Miles
Cody/Biz/Carey

I think if you add another decent center option to move Biz to 3rd string then that roster is pretty functional all-around.

[youngthegiant]

Monte Morris, Denver 2021 1st(unprotected), Denver 2025 1st(lottery protected) for Bridges? I think he's an ideal fit next to Jokic and MPJ.

Also is there any players you have interest in??? We could potentially make this a 3 team trade if you don't need Morris. Looks like you guys need a center. Maybe we could help you get Myles Turner? We send some 1sts to Indy, you guys send Rozier, we get Bridges.

Indy Trades: Myles Turner
Receives: Terry Rozier, Monte Morris, Denver 2021 1st(unprotected), Denver 2025 1st(lottery protected)

Charlotte Trades: Terry Rozier, Miles Bridges
Receives: Myles Turner

Denver Trades: Monte Morris, Denver 2021 1st(unprotected), Denver 2025 1st(lottery protected)
Receives: Miles Bridges

Thoughts? I'll probably post this on the trade board.

[Braggins]

Monte Morris, Denver 2021 1st(unprotected), Denver 2025 1st(lottery protected) for Bridges? I think he's an ideal fit next to Jokic and MPJ.

Also is there any players you have interest in??? We could potentially make this a 3 team trade if you don't need Morris. Looks like you guys need a center. Maybe we could help you get Myles Turner? We send some 1sts to Indy, you guys send Rozier, we get Bridges.

That seems fairly reasonable.

I'm not sure if our front office would want to move him in a deal like that. Hes basically the only PF they have on the roster currently, but there were also reports that they were willing to trade him before the draft, so who knows.

He also might not be as great a fit next to Jokic as you'd think. He has good size and is very strong and athletic, but so far his defense has actually been pretty poor. He has the tools to be the kind of defender you'd want next to Jokic and he could certainly grow into that player, but it has yet to be seen.

[MasterIchiro]

Lastly I will circle back to Knicks who still have roughly 20+ million

1. They take Rozier 18.9 into their cap space, not sure if we can get something back like a second rounder or so or maybe they would prefer to dump Dennis Smith Jr back (5.6) or French Frank back (6.1) either way we would be getting 12 million or so space which is enough that we can keep Batum without stretching his deal.



The Question is what would we be willing to give up to entice the Knicks to do this deal. We could give them a future first obviously protected or swap rights potentially. We could give them Bridges. We could throw in Monk. On deals we throw in Monk or Bridges we could potentially get Knox or DSJ/French Frank back without losing the cap space we need. Just depends on how much the Knicks value the talent upgrade between the prospects swapped.

Let me know which of these options you prefer. Thanks.

I love the target teams (Knicks + Kings) so my proposal builds on them while accounting for a Bogdon match for the Kings. I think Rozier makes the most sense on the Knicks. I like Bridges as incentive. I think their cap situation makes them easier to work with. They really need a PG and talent across the board. Bridges provides upside and he's exciting to watch. He and Toppin could be fun.

At the same time, I want to help out the Kings. They really love Bogdon and the Hawks went for the throat. If we can create space for Bogdon staying on the Kings, that is invaluable to them.

I also like the idea of adding Bridges. It provides incentive for the Knicks to take on Rozier + Zeller, allowing us to take on Hield and create EXACTLY 18.7 million cap for the Kings to match the Hawks.

Hornets
Buddy Hield
Elfrid Payton
8.8 million cap = no stretching Batum

Knicks
Terry Rozier
Miles Bridges
Cody Zeller

Kings
18.7 million cap = Bogdon
Dennis Smith Jr.

[MasterIchiro]

^^^

Adding to my above Kings - Knicks - Hornets proposal that adds Hield and creates 8.8 million cap allowing us to not stretch Batum linked here.

https://tradenba.com/trades/xrU_5DUlu

Batum to Thunder for Al Horford

Our new lineup

Devonte' Graham
Buddy Hield
Gordon Hayward
PJ Washington
Al Horford

2nd unit

LaMelo Ball
Malik Monk
Cody Martin
Jalen McDaniels
Vernon Carey Jr.

Reserves
Elfrid Payton
Bismack Biyombo
Caleb Martin
Nick Richards
Grant Riller

[Diop]

^^^

Adding to my above Kings - Knicks - Hornets proposal that adds Hield and creates 8.8 million cap allowing us to not stretch Batum linked here.

https://tradenba.com/trades/xrU_5DUlu

Batum to Thunder for Al Horford

Our new lineup

Devonte' Graham
Buddy Hield
Gordon Hayward
PJ Washington
Al Horford

2nd unit

LaMelo Ball
Malik Monk
Cody Martin
Jalen McDaniels
Vernon Carey Jr.

Reserves
Elfrid Payton
Bismack Biyombo
Caleb Martin
Nick Richards
Grant Riller

I've been floating the Horford idea as well. Smart, good team player who could only help the youth.
If Kulboka keeps up his hot shooting, it would be cool to bring him over as a shooter as well.

defence isn't the strongest, but its a better over all team than we've had in a while

[Braggins]

Horford is 34, Hayward is 30, and Hield is 27. They cost nearly 80 million combined for the next three years and probably wouldnt win a single playoff series.

[Diop]

i think they might win a series Braggins, maybe I'm being small minded, but I can't think of much better options.
As long as those salaries don't affect resigning any youth that might improve

[JMAC3]

I love the target teams (Knicks + Kings) so my proposal builds on them while accounting for a Bogdon match for the Kings. I think Rozier makes the most sense on the Knicks. I like Bridges as incentive. I think their cap situation makes them easier to work with. They really need a PG and talent across the board. Bridges provides upside and he's exciting to watch. He and Toppin could be fun.

At the same time, I want to help out the Kings. They really love Bogdon and the Hawks went for the throat. If we can create space for Bogdon staying on the Kings, that is invaluable to them.

I also like the idea of adding Bridges. It provides incentive for the Knicks to take on Rozier + Zeller, allowing us to take on Hield and create EXACTLY 18.7 million cap for the Kings to match the Hawks.

Hornets
Buddy Hield
Elfrid Payton
8.8 million cap = no stretching Batum

Knicks
Terry Rozier
Miles Bridges
Cody Zeller

Kings
18.7 million cap = Bogdon
Dennis Smith Jr.

I think this is bit too wild to be realistic. Also, Kings already have the cap room to bring back Bogdon, because he is a restricted free agent, so they can match the offer Atlanta gave without having to give up anything. So in this case they are giving up Hield for DSJ, which is a horrible return.

[Braggins]

Adding Horford should be off the table at this point imo because I don't think they can afford to add another old dude (4 years older than Hayward) on an awful long term contract. Haywards awful deal leaves basically zero room for error with managing the cap moving forward.

Idk about Hield. Hes only 27 and can shoot the lights out. Ive barely seen him play, but Ive seen Kings fans saying he is overrated and some impact stats don't look good for him. His contract is far from cheap, but isn't as bad as it might look since its front loaded.

[MasterIchiro]

I love the target teams (Knicks + Kings) so my proposal builds on them while accounting for a Bogdon match for the Kings. I think Rozier makes the most sense on the Knicks. I like Bridges as incentive. I think their cap situation makes them easier to work with. They really need a PG and talent across the board. Bridges provides upside and he's exciting to watch. He and Toppin could be fun.

At the same time, I want to help out the Kings. They really love Bogdon and the Hawks went for the throat. If we can create space for Bogdon staying on the Kings, that is invaluable to them.

I also like the idea of adding Bridges. It provides incentive for the Knicks to take on Rozier + Zeller, allowing us to take on Hield and create EXACTLY 18.7 million cap for the Kings to match the Hawks.

Hornets
Buddy Hield
Elfrid Payton
8.8 million cap = no stretching Batum

Knicks
Terry Rozier
Miles Bridges
Cody Zeller

Kings
18.7 million cap = Bogdon
Dennis Smith Jr.

I think this is bit too wild to be realistic. Also, Kings already have the cap room to bring back Bogdon, because he is a restricted free agent, so they can match the offer Atlanta gave without having to give up anything. So in this case they are giving up Hield for DSJ, which is a horrible return.

If the Kings match Bogdon 18.7 they also have to pay Barnes + Fox + Hield + Joseph. Without doing all the math, that already looks like a big tax bill.

[JMAC3]

I love the target teams (Knicks + Kings) so my proposal builds on them while accounting for a Bogdon match for the Kings. I think Rozier makes the most sense on the Knicks. I like Bridges as incentive. I think their cap situation makes them easier to work with. They really need a PG and talent across the board. Bridges provides upside and he's exciting to watch. He and Toppin could be fun.

At the same time, I want to help out the Kings. They really love Bogdon and the Hawks went for the throat. If we can create space for Bogdon staying on the Kings, that is invaluable to them.

I also like the idea of adding Bridges. It provides incentive for the Knicks to take on Rozier + Zeller, allowing us to take on Hield and create EXACTLY 18.7 million cap for the Kings to match the Hawks.

Hornets
Buddy Hield
Elfrid Payton
8.8 million cap = no stretching Batum

Knicks
Terry Rozier
Miles Bridges
Cody Zeller

Kings
18.7 million cap = Bogdon
Dennis Smith Jr.

I think this is bit too wild to be realistic. Also, Kings already have the cap room to bring back Bogdon, because he is a restricted free agent, so they can match the offer Atlanta gave without having to give up anything. So in this case they are giving up Hield for DSJ, which is a horrible return.

If the Kings match Bogdon 18.7 they also have to pay Barnes + Fox + Hield + Joseph. Without doing all the math, that already looks like a big tax bill.

If they bring Bogdanovic back they will only be in the 120 range, which is not really close to the Luxury Tax Line.