ImageImage

Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million

Moderators: BigSlam, JDR720, fatlever, yosemiteben, Diop

Braggins
RealGM
Posts: 10,856
And1: 5,459
Joined: Jan 05, 2014
 

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#301 » by Braggins » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:48 am

James Gatz wrote:If we can get off Rozier's contract and not stretch Batum then I'm much more okay with Hayward deal. Despite his good statistical year last year I think he regresses and isn't worth what he's being paid next two years.

I agree, but I really wanted to try to sell high on him and get some kind of asset back for him if possible.
User avatar
James Gatz
Starter
Posts: 2,491
And1: 507
Joined: Mar 12, 2012

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#302 » by James Gatz » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:50 am

JMAC3 wrote:
BigSlam wrote:
James Gatz wrote:If we can get off Rozier's contract and not stretch Batum then I'm much more okay with Hayward deal. Despite his good statistical year last year I think he regresses and isn't worth what he's being paid next two years.

I'm with you JG. I'm still not stoked at the number or years, but if a S&T moves Terry's number off our books next year right away it makes the Hayward move much, much more palatable for me.


I know we have a roster crunch but that doesn’t mean you just give up value.

Rozier is worth a first in the 14-24 range.

Assume Batum was under contract for the next three years at 9 million. Would you trade a first (Rozier value) to dump him?


Rozier isn't worth a 1st. He's likely seen as negative value in the league. If you disagree take a second and try to come up with one team who trade an expiring + 1st for Rozier.
User avatar
316Hornets
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,803
And1: 2,443
Joined: Jun 26, 2015
Location: Milky Way
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#303 » by 316Hornets » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:53 am

James Gatz wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
BigSlam wrote:I'm with you JG. I'm still not stoked at the number or years, but if a S&T moves Terry's number off our books next year right away it makes the Hayward move much, much more palatable for me.


I know we have a roster crunch but that doesn’t mean you just give up value.

Rozier is worth a first in the 14-24 range.

Assume Batum was under contract for the next three years at 9 million. Would you trade a first (Rozier value) to dump him?


Rozier isn't worth a 1st. He's likely seen as negative value in the league. If you disagree take a second and try to come up with one team who trade an expiring + 1st for Rozier.


Clippers have rumored interest in Rozier, Warriors could use a guard also.
User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 45,571
And1: 3,341
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#304 » by BigSlam » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:54 am

JMAC3 wrote:I know we have a roster crunch but that doesn’t mean you just give up value.

We wouldn't be giving up value though. We'd be adding value, because Hayward is a better player, and fit, than Terry is for us. Plus we would be removing Terry's $18mill next year and opening up cap space - which is additional value.

Don't get me wrong, I had low expectations for Terry when we brought him in and he really impressed me last year - but he is redundant now and Hayward is better in most ways.
BBMF'ers
User avatar
JMAC3
Analyst
Posts: 3,551
And1: 972
Joined: May 22, 2010
     

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#305 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:55 am

James Gatz wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
BigSlam wrote:I'm with you JG. I'm still not stoked at the number or years, but if a S&T moves Terry's number off our books next year right away it makes the Hayward move much, much more palatable for me.


I know we have a roster crunch but that doesn’t mean you just give up value.

Rozier is worth a first in the 14-24 range.

Assume Batum was under contract for the next three years at 9 million. Would you trade a first (Rozier value) to dump him?


Rozier isn't worth a 1st. He's likely seen as negative value in the league. If you disagree take a second and try to come up with one team who trade an expiring + 1st for Rozier.


Compare Rozier to Bogdanovic... I guess Bogdan is about to sign a negative value contract
Big Board
1. Vontae Mack no matter what!!
User avatar
wilson115
Sophomore
Posts: 248
And1: 155
Joined: Aug 21, 2020
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#306 » by wilson115 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:58 am

Braggins wrote:
wilson115 wrote:
Braggins wrote:I might honestly prefer sending multiple 2nds with Batum to the alternative options.

Does Boston have enough space after signing Teague/Thompson? They get to waive Nic?

Not sure. I can't find any info on the Teague/Thompson deals. I'm guessing they are pretty cheap, but I don't know the cap rules well or what Boston's cap situation looks like.

Says Boston's paying the tax with Hayward if he'd opted in for $34M. Without Hayward, Thompson's $19M/2 yrs. fits into the non-taxpayer exception, with Boston over the cap but under the tax line. So taking Rozier or waiving Nic, maybe.

cap: $109M
tax: $132M

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/10/26/luxury-tax-line-matters-much-celtics-offseason-possibilities/
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2020/11/21/celtics-offseason-free-agency-trade-rumors-salary-cap#:~:text=While%20Hayward's%20%2434.2%20million%20max,salary%20cap%20for%20next%20season.
User avatar
SWedd523
General Manager
Posts: 9,013
And1: 1,463
Joined: Jul 07, 2009
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#307 » by SWedd523 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:02 am

I'd much rather do a Batum for Hayward+something trade.

I find Rozier more valuable than most everyone else apparently. He's the only vet in the entire backcourt
Image
User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 45,571
And1: 3,341
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#308 » by BigSlam » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:07 am

SWedd523 wrote:I'd much rather do a Batum for Hayward+something trade.

I find Rozier more valuable than most everyone else apparently. He's the only vet in the entire backcourt

Gordo says: "hey broski, wassup?".
BBMF'ers
User avatar
JMAC3
Analyst
Posts: 3,551
And1: 972
Joined: May 22, 2010
     

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#309 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:11 am

The only negative with paying Batum 9 million next year is that we have less cap space. We are going to have a lot cap space regardless... only way it really hurts us is if you think we can attract a MAX contract essentially.
Big Board
1. Vontae Mack no matter what!!
User avatar
amcoolio
Hornets Forum John Hancock
Posts: 11,923
And1: 4,086
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
Location: Servant to lord Bargnani
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#310 » by amcoolio » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:34 am

JMAC3 wrote:Pacers were offering him at minimum 4/100 from reports. Pacers were giving up a really good asset to get him (Turner plus something).

Knicks were offering him "more" than Pacers from reports so I would assume it is close to our offer.

If he signed this deal with same deal with Toronto or Miami I think people would be fine with it.

So it is not whether he is good or worth it or whatever. It is simply is he a good fit for timeline.


Trade him to Pacers then for Myles/bad contracts, I would take that over paying 34 year old Hayward 30 million
Image
driveandkick
Senior
Posts: 747
And1: 257
Joined: May 23, 2015
       

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#311 » by driveandkick » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:41 am

amcoolio wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:Pacers were offering him at minimum 4/100 from reports. Pacers were giving up a really good asset to get him (Turner plus something).

Knicks were offering him "more" than Pacers from reports so I would assume it is close to our offer.

If he signed this deal with same deal with Toronto or Miami I think people would be fine with it.

So it is not whether he is good or worth it or whatever. It is simply is he a good fit for timeline.


Trade him to Pacers then for Myles/bad contracts, I would take that over paying 34 year old Hayward 30 million

I think people are making too big a deal out Hayward's age. If he stays healthy I have zero doubt he'll still be playing at a decently high level at 34. Dude's take such good care of their bodies now, his game also isn't too reliant on athleticsm. I could be proven wrong, but worrying about him falling off at the age of 32 or whatever is far down the list of the things that concern me most with this deal.
2020 NBA Draft Charlotte Hornets Wishlist for #3:
1) LaMelo Ball
2) Anthony Edwards
3) Onyeka Okongwu
4) Killian Hayes
5) Isaac Okoro
6) Deni Avdija
7) James Wiseman
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 34,402
And1: 10,302
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#312 » by Liver_Pooty » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:44 am

driveandkick wrote:
amcoolio wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:Pacers were offering him at minimum 4/100 from reports. Pacers were giving up a really good asset to get him (Turner plus something).

Knicks were offering him "more" than Pacers from reports so I would assume it is close to our offer.

If he signed this deal with same deal with Toronto or Miami I think people would be fine with it.

So it is not whether he is good or worth it or whatever. It is simply is he a good fit for timeline.


Trade him to Pacers then for Myles/bad contracts, I would take that over paying 34 year old Hayward 30 million

I think people are making too big a deal out Hayward's age. If he stays healthy I have zero doubt he'll still be playing at a decently high level at 34. Dude's take such good care of their bodies now, his game also isn't too reliant on athleticsm. I could be proven wrong, but worrying about him falling off at the age of 32 or whatever is far down the list of the things that concern me most with this deal.


Indeed. His game isn't predicated on athleticism (although he is a sneaky good athlete)
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
User avatar
amcoolio
Hornets Forum John Hancock
Posts: 11,923
And1: 4,086
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
Location: Servant to lord Bargnani
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#313 » by amcoolio » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:44 am

driveandkick wrote:
amcoolio wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:Pacers were offering him at minimum 4/100 from reports. Pacers were giving up a really good asset to get him (Turner plus something).

Knicks were offering him "more" than Pacers from reports so I would assume it is close to our offer.

If he signed this deal with same deal with Toronto or Miami I think people would be fine with it.

So it is not whether he is good or worth it or whatever. It is simply is he a good fit for timeline.


Trade him to Pacers then for Myles/bad contracts, I would take that over paying 34 year old Hayward 30 million

I think people are making too big a deal out Hayward's age. If he stays healthy I have zero doubt he'll still be playing at a decently high level at 34. Dude's take such good care of their bodies now, his game also isn't too reliant on athleticsm. I could be proven wrong, but worrying about him falling off at the age of 32 or whatever is far down the list of the things that concern me most with this deal.


Uhhh we just went through this with Batum, and now have 3 more years of Batum residue on our salary cap to deal with

Dead money is absolutely horrible and should be avoided at all costs

The Panthers had 50 million in dead money this season and it completely wrecked their season

I get serious "Hayward will play ok for a year or two and then shut it down to just collect checks and be with his family" vibes from this
Image
Chapelchilla
Senior
Posts: 599
And1: 274
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
         

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#314 » by Chapelchilla » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:49 am

amcoolio wrote:
driveandkick wrote:
amcoolio wrote:
Trade him to Pacers then for Myles/bad contracts, I would take that over paying 34 year old Hayward 30 million

I think people are making too big a deal out Hayward's age. If he stays healthy I have zero doubt he'll still be playing at a decently high level at 34. Dude's take such good care of their bodies now, his game also isn't too reliant on athleticsm. I could be proven wrong, but worrying about him falling off at the age of 32 or whatever is far down the list of the things that concern me most with this deal.


Uhhh we just went through this with Batum, and now have 3 more years of Batum residue on our salary cap to deal with

Dead money is absolutely horrible and should be avoided at all costs

The Panthers had 50 million in dead money this season and it completely wrecked their season

I get serious "Hayward will play ok for a year or two and then shut it down to just collect checks and be with his family" vibes from this


Hayward is not going to mail it in
He is a high character guy
He could get hurt and suck but him quitting on us is not a realistic concern
He is not Batum
DY_nasty
Head Coach
Posts: 7,227
And1: 2,993
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#315 » by DY_nasty » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:56 am

a lot of guys don't mail it in til they get paid
User avatar
JMAC3
Analyst
Posts: 3,551
And1: 972
Joined: May 22, 2010
     

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#316 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:59 am

DY_nasty wrote:a lot of guys don't mail it in til they get paid


Cool, so don't pay anyone. Issue solved.
Big Board
1. Vontae Mack no matter what!!
User avatar
wilson115
Sophomore
Posts: 248
And1: 155
Joined: Aug 21, 2020
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#317 » by wilson115 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:05 am

He walked away from $34M and an EC finalist for a bigger role. No questions about Hayward's desire, it's putting him in a position to succeed knowing what we're getting. (30 y.o. with near-career-ending injuries.)
User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 45,571
And1: 3,341
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#318 » by BigSlam » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:13 am

The Indiana Pacers have shown interest in Bogdan Bogdanovic, who remains a restricted free agent after a proposed deal with the Milwaukee Bucks has fallen through.

The Sacramento Kings are interested in facilitating a sign-and-trade involving Bogdanovic. The Pacers previously pursued a sign-and-trade for Gordon Hayward before he signed with the Charlotte Hornets.

The Pacers offered Myles Turner as part of a sign-and-trade for Hayward, but it is not clear if they would offer a similar package to the Kings for Bogdanovic.

The Atlanta Hawks can sign Bogdanovic outright and are willing to match his four-year, $72 million asking price, but it is not clear if the Kings would match.

Some sort of four way extravaganza?

Charlotte out: Batum
Charlotte in: Hayward

Boston out: Hayward and pick compensation to Indiana (2nd rounders?)
Boston in: Turner

Indiana out: Turner
Indiana in: Bogdanovic

Sacramento out: Bogdanovic
Sacremento in: Batum and pick compensation from Boston (2nd rounders?)
BBMF'ers
DY_nasty
Head Coach
Posts: 7,227
And1: 2,993
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#319 » by DY_nasty » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:18 am

wilson115 wrote:He walked away from $34M and an EC finalist for a bigger role. No questions about Hayward's desire, it's putting him in a position to succeed knowing what we're getting. (30 y.o. with near-career-ending injuries.)

he walked away from 34 mil for a year where he once again didn't make a difference for his team to a team that made excuses for Batum and 120 guaranteed :lol:

there is no better 'one last contract' scenario for the guy. and im not even mad at him...

the FO cemented the fact that they have no clue what they're doing. and hornets fans are trying to rationalize this instead of calling out mitch and MJ out. for what
Chapelchilla
Senior
Posts: 599
And1: 274
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
         

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#320 » by Chapelchilla » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:20 am

DY_nasty wrote:a lot of guys don't mail it in til they get paid


Well good news then, because Hayward is not “a lot of guys”. Dude has a track record.
He has been paid 3 times now. Never mailed it in even after being injured horribly.

Return to Charlotte Hornets