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Fool Me Twice: The Gordon Hayward Thread

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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#301 » by Braggins » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:48 am

James Gatz wrote:If we can get off Rozier's contract and not stretch Batum then I'm much more okay with Hayward deal. Despite his good statistical year last year I think he regresses and isn't worth what he's being paid next two years.

I agree, but I really wanted to try to sell high on him and get some kind of asset back for him if possible.
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#302 » by James Gatz » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:50 am

JMAC3 wrote:
BigSlam wrote:
James Gatz wrote:If we can get off Rozier's contract and not stretch Batum then I'm much more okay with Hayward deal. Despite his good statistical year last year I think he regresses and isn't worth what he's being paid next two years.

I'm with you JG. I'm still not stoked at the number or years, but if a S&T moves Terry's number off our books next year right away it makes the Hayward move much, much more palatable for me.


I know we have a roster crunch but that doesn’t mean you just give up value.

Rozier is worth a first in the 14-24 range.

Assume Batum was under contract for the next three years at 9 million. Would you trade a first (Rozier value) to dump him?


Rozier isn't worth a 1st. He's likely seen as negative value in the league. If you disagree take a second and try to come up with one team who trade an expiring + 1st for Rozier.
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#303 » by 316Hornets » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:53 am

James Gatz wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
BigSlam wrote:I'm with you JG. I'm still not stoked at the number or years, but if a S&T moves Terry's number off our books next year right away it makes the Hayward move much, much more palatable for me.


I know we have a roster crunch but that doesn’t mean you just give up value.

Rozier is worth a first in the 14-24 range.

Assume Batum was under contract for the next three years at 9 million. Would you trade a first (Rozier value) to dump him?


Rozier isn't worth a 1st. He's likely seen as negative value in the league. If you disagree take a second and try to come up with one team who trade an expiring + 1st for Rozier.


Clippers have rumored interest in Rozier, Warriors could use a guard also.
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#304 » by BigSlam » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:54 am

JMAC3 wrote:I know we have a roster crunch but that doesn’t mean you just give up value.

We wouldn't be giving up value though. We'd be adding value, because Hayward is a better player, and fit, than Terry is for us. Plus we would be removing Terry's $18mill next year and opening up cap space - which is additional value.

Don't get me wrong, I had low expectations for Terry when we brought him in and he really impressed me last year - but he is redundant now and Hayward is better in most ways.
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#305 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:55 am

James Gatz wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
BigSlam wrote:I'm with you JG. I'm still not stoked at the number or years, but if a S&T moves Terry's number off our books next year right away it makes the Hayward move much, much more palatable for me.


I know we have a roster crunch but that doesn’t mean you just give up value.

Rozier is worth a first in the 14-24 range.

Assume Batum was under contract for the next three years at 9 million. Would you trade a first (Rozier value) to dump him?


Rozier isn't worth a 1st. He's likely seen as negative value in the league. If you disagree take a second and try to come up with one team who trade an expiring + 1st for Rozier.


Compare Rozier to Bogdanovic... I guess Bogdan is about to sign a negative value contract
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#306 » by wilson115 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:58 am

Braggins wrote:
wilson115 wrote:
Braggins wrote:I might honestly prefer sending multiple 2nds with Batum to the alternative options.

Does Boston have enough space after signing Teague/Thompson? They get to waive Nic?

Not sure. I can't find any info on the Teague/Thompson deals. I'm guessing they are pretty cheap, but I don't know the cap rules well or what Boston's cap situation looks like.

Says Boston's paying the tax with Hayward if he'd opted in for $34M. Without Hayward, Thompson's $19M/2 yrs. fits into the non-taxpayer exception, with Boston over the cap but under the tax line. So taking Rozier or waiving Nic, maybe.

cap: $109M
tax: $132M

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/10/26/luxury-tax-line-matters-much-celtics-offseason-possibilities/
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2020/11/21/celtics-offseason-free-agency-trade-rumors-salary-cap#:~:text=While%20Hayward's%20%2434.2%20million%20max,salary%20cap%20for%20next%20season.
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#307 » by SWedd523 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:02 am

I'd much rather do a Batum for Hayward+something trade.

I find Rozier more valuable than most everyone else apparently. He's the only vet in the entire backcourt
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#308 » by BigSlam » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:07 am

SWedd523 wrote:I'd much rather do a Batum for Hayward+something trade.

I find Rozier more valuable than most everyone else apparently. He's the only vet in the entire backcourt

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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#309 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:11 am

The only negative with paying Batum 9 million next year is that we have less cap space. We are going to have a lot cap space regardless... only way it really hurts us is if you think we can attract a MAX contract essentially.
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#310 » by amcoolio » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:34 am

JMAC3 wrote:Pacers were offering him at minimum 4/100 from reports. Pacers were giving up a really good asset to get him (Turner plus something).

Knicks were offering him "more" than Pacers from reports so I would assume it is close to our offer.

If he signed this deal with same deal with Toronto or Miami I think people would be fine with it.

So it is not whether he is good or worth it or whatever. It is simply is he a good fit for timeline.


Trade him to Pacers then for Myles/bad contracts, I would take that over paying 34 year old Hayward 30 million
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#311 » by driveandkick » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:41 am

amcoolio wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:Pacers were offering him at minimum 4/100 from reports. Pacers were giving up a really good asset to get him (Turner plus something).

Knicks were offering him "more" than Pacers from reports so I would assume it is close to our offer.

If he signed this deal with same deal with Toronto or Miami I think people would be fine with it.

So it is not whether he is good or worth it or whatever. It is simply is he a good fit for timeline.


Trade him to Pacers then for Myles/bad contracts, I would take that over paying 34 year old Hayward 30 million

I think people are making too big a deal out Hayward's age. If he stays healthy I have zero doubt he'll still be playing at a decently high level at 34. Dude's take such good care of their bodies now, his game also isn't too reliant on athleticsm. I could be proven wrong, but worrying about him falling off at the age of 32 or whatever is far down the list of the things that concern me most with this deal.
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#312 » by Liver_Pooty » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:44 am

driveandkick wrote:
amcoolio wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:Pacers were offering him at minimum 4/100 from reports. Pacers were giving up a really good asset to get him (Turner plus something).

Knicks were offering him "more" than Pacers from reports so I would assume it is close to our offer.

If he signed this deal with same deal with Toronto or Miami I think people would be fine with it.

So it is not whether he is good or worth it or whatever. It is simply is he a good fit for timeline.


Trade him to Pacers then for Myles/bad contracts, I would take that over paying 34 year old Hayward 30 million

I think people are making too big a deal out Hayward's age. If he stays healthy I have zero doubt he'll still be playing at a decently high level at 34. Dude's take such good care of their bodies now, his game also isn't too reliant on athleticsm. I could be proven wrong, but worrying about him falling off at the age of 32 or whatever is far down the list of the things that concern me most with this deal.


Indeed. His game isn't predicated on athleticism (although he is a sneaky good athlete)
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#313 » by amcoolio » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:44 am

driveandkick wrote:
amcoolio wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:Pacers were offering him at minimum 4/100 from reports. Pacers were giving up a really good asset to get him (Turner plus something).

Knicks were offering him "more" than Pacers from reports so I would assume it is close to our offer.

If he signed this deal with same deal with Toronto or Miami I think people would be fine with it.

So it is not whether he is good or worth it or whatever. It is simply is he a good fit for timeline.


Trade him to Pacers then for Myles/bad contracts, I would take that over paying 34 year old Hayward 30 million

I think people are making too big a deal out Hayward's age. If he stays healthy I have zero doubt he'll still be playing at a decently high level at 34. Dude's take such good care of their bodies now, his game also isn't too reliant on athleticsm. I could be proven wrong, but worrying about him falling off at the age of 32 or whatever is far down the list of the things that concern me most with this deal.


Uhhh we just went through this with Batum, and now have 3 more years of Batum residue on our salary cap to deal with

Dead money is absolutely horrible and should be avoided at all costs

The Panthers had 50 million in dead money this season and it completely wrecked their season

I get serious "Hayward will play ok for a year or two and then shut it down to just collect checks and be with his family" vibes from this
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#314 » by Chapelchilla » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:49 am

amcoolio wrote:
driveandkick wrote:
amcoolio wrote:
Trade him to Pacers then for Myles/bad contracts, I would take that over paying 34 year old Hayward 30 million

I think people are making too big a deal out Hayward's age. If he stays healthy I have zero doubt he'll still be playing at a decently high level at 34. Dude's take such good care of their bodies now, his game also isn't too reliant on athleticsm. I could be proven wrong, but worrying about him falling off at the age of 32 or whatever is far down the list of the things that concern me most with this deal.


Uhhh we just went through this with Batum, and now have 3 more years of Batum residue on our salary cap to deal with

Dead money is absolutely horrible and should be avoided at all costs

The Panthers had 50 million in dead money this season and it completely wrecked their season

I get serious "Hayward will play ok for a year or two and then shut it down to just collect checks and be with his family" vibes from this


Hayward is not going to mail it in
He is a high character guy
He could get hurt and suck but him quitting on us is not a realistic concern
He is not Batum
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#315 » by DY_nasty » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:56 am

a lot of guys don't mail it in til they get paid
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#316 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:59 am

DY_nasty wrote:a lot of guys don't mail it in til they get paid


Cool, so don't pay anyone. Issue solved.
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#317 » by wilson115 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:05 am

He walked away from $34M and an EC finalist for a bigger role. No questions about Hayward's desire, it's putting him in a position to succeed knowing what we're getting. (30 y.o. with near-career-ending injuries.)
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#318 » by BigSlam » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:13 am

The Indiana Pacers have shown interest in Bogdan Bogdanovic, who remains a restricted free agent after a proposed deal with the Milwaukee Bucks has fallen through.

The Sacramento Kings are interested in facilitating a sign-and-trade involving Bogdanovic. The Pacers previously pursued a sign-and-trade for Gordon Hayward before he signed with the Charlotte Hornets.

The Pacers offered Myles Turner as part of a sign-and-trade for Hayward, but it is not clear if they would offer a similar package to the Kings for Bogdanovic.

The Atlanta Hawks can sign Bogdanovic outright and are willing to match his four-year, $72 million asking price, but it is not clear if the Kings would match.

Some sort of four way extravaganza?

Charlotte out: Batum
Charlotte in: Hayward

Boston out: Hayward and pick compensation to Indiana (2nd rounders?)
Boston in: Turner

Indiana out: Turner
Indiana in: Bogdanovic

Sacramento out: Bogdanovic
Sacremento in: Batum and pick compensation from Boston (2nd rounders?)
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#319 » by DY_nasty » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:18 am

wilson115 wrote:He walked away from $34M and an EC finalist for a bigger role. No questions about Hayward's desire, it's putting him in a position to succeed knowing what we're getting. (30 y.o. with near-career-ending injuries.)

he walked away from 34 mil for a year where he once again didn't make a difference for his team to a team that made excuses for Batum and 120 guaranteed :lol:

there is no better 'one last contract' scenario for the guy. and im not even mad at him...

the FO cemented the fact that they have no clue what they're doing. and hornets fans are trying to rationalize this instead of calling out mitch and MJ out. for what
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Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#320 » by Chapelchilla » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:20 am

DY_nasty wrote:a lot of guys don't mail it in til they get paid


Well good news then, because Hayward is not “a lot of guys”. Dude has a track record.
He has been paid 3 times now. Never mailed it in even after being injured horribly.

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