James eyeing Howard's Defensive Player Of Year award

[SideshowBob]

No Absolutely not. All you posted are fabricated measurement of statistics. That are not even peer reviewed or scientifically verified. Its like PER.

There's nothing "fabricated" in those stats. There's no formula, it's +/- numbers. Nothing like PER or Win Shares at all. For what it's worth, defensive RAPM ranks Boozer as the 409th best defensive player in the league.

Its nonsense. If I guard a player 10 times and in those ten times he goes 2 of 10. Then he's 20% against me.
If someone guards him and he goes 7 of 10. Then he's 70% against them.

Wouldn't that show I'm the better defender at guarding him than they?

No. Imagine you're being defended by point guard A, who is a notoriously weak defender who struggles to stay in front of his man. You get by point guard A, and look to attack the basket, however, small forward B quickly comes in to help, blocking your way from the basket, forcing you to pull up for a jumper, and you brick it. Point guard A is credited with forcing you to miss a field goal, however, point guard A played no part in you missing that field goal.

Every thing we need is already covered. Field Goal attempt and Field Goal Made, Plus turnover, etc...

Yes, although, with ZERO context.

And Dwight Howard is 46 because he covers so much ground, He's really switches alot, guards and contests every shot at the basket.

Yes, and Lebron James is 195 because HE ALSO covers so much ground, switches like heck, and guards and alters almost every shot he can get to. I'm pretty sure I covered this in my earlier post. I'm guessing you just glanced at the stats and didn't actually read it.

[lorak]

Synergy Stats just scratch the surface for defensive stats. For reference, they rank Dwight Howard as the 46th best defender in the league. They don't consider off ball defense nor help defense at all (which is the most significant aspect, as it's what affects team DRTGs the most). They also don't consider WHO is being guarded.

2009: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking09
2010: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking10
2011: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking11
2012: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking_rec

His DRAPM is a little bit below where it's been the last 3 seasons, though still in the same range. Also, this hasn't been updated since February 18th (J.E.'s on vacation and he's said that he'll be updating after he returns on the 26th), and his defense has been notably better in the last month than it was to start off the year, and it's shown in the Heat's gradually improving DRTG.

Drza even pointed out in a thread on the PC board (thread regarding Deng's value to the Bulls) that Lebron's been up there with the top defensive big men in Engelmann's 08-11 study. He also mentioned that we've seen evidence before of great defensive Small Forwards being capable of having this kind of impact on the defense, without being dominant shot blockers.

On the '04 - '09 Ilardi study, Artest (+5.1 on defense), right in a group with Ben Wallace (+5.2), Tim Duncan (+4.8) , Ratlif (+4.6), and Camby (+4.2). Battier (+3.9) and Kirileknko (+3.5) weren't far behind.

Similarly, in Englemann's '08 - '11 study LeBron (+3.7 on defense) was right there with Dwight Howard (+4.0), Duncan (+3.9), Josh Smith (+4.1) and Andrew Bogut (+4.2). And in that study Deng was +3.0 on defense, not far behind.

The value of a dominant shot blocker comes from the threat of the block. They scare the opposing teams' penetrators from attacking the rim; essentially, their impact on defense comes not from the blocks, but from creating hesitation in the offensive players' minds and forcing them to change the offensive game plan.

What we see with these Small Forwards is not shot blocking, but rather, their ability to cover the floor well. Rather than greatly altering high percentage shots at the rim, they moderately alter every shot they can get to. It seems to create a similar level of impact as a shot blocking big man, and that's a big part of why we see these guys pop up so high on these defensive APM studies. If we had PbP data from the 90s, I reckon we'd see Pippen be in the same mold as these guys (Artest, James, Battier, Kirilenko, etc.).


If anything, ESPN is UNDERRATING his defense, as all they talk about is him being a versatile positional defender.

Brilliant post!

[SweetTouch]

LOL one contested jump shot that went in then his out??

seriously John made one shot over LBJ last night

[sonicFLAME6]

JLucas scored one basket over him in the 4th after LeBron switched in him, LeBron completely DRosed him. I saw LeBron guarding every position from the 1-5 in spurts and his defense was stellar. The bad thing about him being on JL at the end meant there was less rebounding for the Heat since he wasnt down low. But really what can you do? Lucas was torching the Heat.
I'll say it once and I'll say it again. Synergy defense is flawed, it doesn't take in any way into account variables that happen in games. Who you are guarding, if you get burned by your opponent and your team defense steps up it credits you for a 0-1 possession in the play. It's not a bad stat to use but you have to take it into context and actually watch games and by people saying Lucas torched LeBron it tells me all I need to know. Trolling.

[SideshowBob]

And FWIW, Deng is currently my DPOY

[EscapoTHB]

After John Lucas III torchered him yesterday he shouldn't make any defensive team yet alone get the DPOY.

I think he made one contested jump shot over Lebron. Everything he was throwing up was going in last night, at least Lebron got the ball out of his hands in the final few minutes. If he had been on him sooner Heat probably could have won.

**** was ridiculous though. Pull up 3s by a scrub with defenders draped all over him? Okaaay.

[EscapoTHB]

And FWIW, Deng is currently my DPOY

He got lit up too last night. He wasn't strong enough to push Lebron off his spot. Lebron got to where he wanted every time he posted up on Deng. I think Lebron's strength in the post defense is a huge advantage he has over Deng. Can't see Deng banging with Howard and Gasol, like Lebron does.

[blumeany]

If Lebron is a candidate, then Omer Asik should be a candidate. Both are big and can easily frustrate smaller players and make them uncomfortable.

[SideshowBob]

And FWIW, Deng is currently my DPOY

He got lit up too last night. He wasn't strong enough to push Lebron off his spot. Lebron got to where he wanted every time he posted up on Deng. I think Lebron's strength in the post defense is a huge advantage he has over Deng. Can't see Deng banging with Howard and Gasol, like Lebron does.

Yeah, but I think Deng's help defense is at the same level as Lebron's, but Lebron wasn't consistent enough on that end to start off the season. Miami's only at #8 defensively, and I'd like to see them improve to be swayed in Lebron's direction.

As of now, Deng, Iggy, and Lebron are my top 3

[ecnirp]

LOL one contested jump shot that went in then his out??

Shhh

He's rolling.

[NYK_89]

Bargnani ranked #1 for a while before injuries.

He is DPOTY.

He is ranked 11 atm. Maybe its because He's a good defender for his positon? ever considered that?

Carlos Bozer is ranked 333, which is pretty accurate.

Never post again

[Bladers]

There's nothing "fabricated" in those stats. There's no formula, it's +/- numbers. Nothing like PER or Win Shares at all. For what it's worth, defensive RAPM ranks Boozer as the 409th best defensive player in the league.

That's even worse. +/- is the WORST statistical measurement in statistical history. Its been proven completely unreliable and false each and every day. and yes it is a measurement of stats, it is a formula.

No. Imagine you're being defended by point guard A, who is a notoriously weak defender who struggles to stay in front of his man. You get by point guard A, and look to attack the basket, however, small forward B quickly comes in to help, blocking your way from the basket, forcing you to pull up for a jumper, and you brick it. Point guard A is credited with forcing you to miss a field goal, however, point guard A played no part in you missing that field goal.

first of all, Mysnergysports have it all categorized, post up, spot up, iso, p&r, off-screen, etc

Second of all, that is hardly the case, SF do not help in penetration to the rim because most of the time they are guarding their man on the three point line.

The ones who do help off of penetration are pf's and centers.

But none of this matter becasuse mysnergysports categorizes the plays. and you can look at each category seperately and come to conclusion.

Yes, although, with ZERO context.

It does have alot of context and more context than the rubbish +/-, DRG, and DWS.
Mysnergysports are actually done by video with the eye.

Yes, and Lebron James is 195 because HE ALSO covers so much ground, switches like heck, and guards and alters almost every shot he can get to. I'm pretty sure I covered this in my earlier post. I'm guessing you just glanced at the stats and didn't actually read it.

absolutely not, Lebron hardly switches, infact he NEVER switches unless its on purpose, Spo's defensive scheme is not to switch. They hardly switch. Unlike the Knicks, magics and other teams who switch on every play. You will hardly find lebron on the wrong man in a half court situation.

2010 Miami Defensive rating 104.1
2011 Miami Defensive rating 103.5

Miami have also been a defensive minded team way before Lebron got there.
Secondly about RAPM and +/-.

Dirk Nowiski a 2.4 per 100 possesion? Its well known He doesn't play a lick of defense.
And is ranked 308 at Snergy.

i'm sorry but there is no stat measurement more useless than +/- except DRG and WS

[NYK_89]

There's nothing "fabricated" in those stats. There's no formula, it's +/- numbers. Nothing like PER or Win Shares at all. For what it's worth, defensive RAPM ranks Boozer as the 409th best defensive player in the league.

That's even worse. +/- is the WORST statistical measurement in statistical history. Its been proven completely unreliable and false each and every day. and yes it is a measurement of stats, it is a formula.

No. Imagine you're being defended by point guard A, who is a notoriously weak defender who struggles to stay in front of his man. You get by point guard A, and look to attack the basket, however, small forward B quickly comes in to help, blocking your way from the basket, forcing you to pull up for a jumper, and you brick it. Point guard A is credited with forcing you to miss a field goal, however, point guard A played no part in you missing that field goal.

first of all, Mysnergysports have it all categorized, post up, spot up, iso, p&r, off-screen, etc

Second of all, that is hardly the case, SF do not help in peneration to and definitely not lebron.
The ones who do help off of penetration are pf's and centers.

But none of this matter becasuse mysnergysports categorizes the plays. and you can look at each category seperately and come to conclusion.

Yes, although, with ZERO context.

It does have alot of context and more context than the rubbish +/-, DRG, and DWS.
Mysnergysports are actually done by video with the eye.

Yes, and Lebron James is 195 because HE ALSO covers so much ground, switches like heck, and guards and alters almost every shot he can get to. I'm pretty sure I covered this in my earlier post. I'm guessing you just glanced at the stats and didn't actually read it.

absolutely not, Lebron hardly switches, infact he NEVER switches unless its on purpose, Spo's defensive scheme is not to switch. They hardly switch. Unlike the Knicks, magics and other teams who switch on every play. You will hardly find lebron on the wrong man in a half court situation.

2010 Miami Defensive rating 104.1
2011 Miami Defensive rating 103.5

Miami have also been a defensive minded team way before Lebron got there.
Secondly about RAPM and +/-.

Dirk Nowiski a 2.4 per 100 possesion? Its well known He doesn't play a lick of defense.
And is ranked 308 at Snergy.

i'm sorry but there is no stat measurement more useless than +/- except DRG and WS

What on earth are you talking about watch the games it takes 10 seconds to see what makes lebron great if you dont like stats. Also why would we compare 2010-2011 you do realize that literally almost that entire team left its not like lebron came in and was a signing to put them over the top they started completely from scratch

Come back here and talk when deng or whoever you are pushing for has effectively covered center and is being put on the top point guards at the end of the game, the thing is they wont because lebron is on another level defensively.

Also you need to realize that lebron is asked to overhelp in the current defensive scheme in miami thus clearly killing all of these horrible stats you are pulling out of your ass

[C-izMe]

My list is:
Deng (this guy is a monster)
Iggy (almost never seen a SF keep up with PGs for whole games like he can)
Dwight (plays spectacular when they win and horrible when they lose. Too unmotivated every other game)
Wallace (Guards three positions very well excluding what KLove did to him)
Lebron (Best man defender in the league. Hasnt been consistent as a help defender though)
KG (best help defending big in the L)
JSmoove (leaps and bounds better than two years ago)
Wade (great help defender when he gets down the court)
Serge (OKC gives up a lot of attempts in the paint but they let up one of the lowest FG%. Blame Russell-lite Serge)
LMA (has really played bad defensively since the injury in Atlanta. Might not be 100%)

[INKtastic]

I thought LeBron should have won DPOY a couple of years ago in 2010. Howard shuts down the middle, LeBron can stop players all over the court.

[phd1969]

Lebron is not a good man defender, he's average at best as those Synergy stats prove. He's great at playing the lanes, closes out quick, and rotates well.

[SideshowBob]

I thought LeBron should have won DPOY a couple of years ago in 2010. Howard shuts down the middle, LeBron can stop players all over the court.

I thought he had his best case that year as well. That's not to say Dwight didn't deserve it, just that Lebron did as well.

He managed to get the Cavs to #7 in DRTG, and they were better before Brown sat him out in that stretch of games to end the season. With a 33 year old Antawn Jamison, 37 year old Shaq, and 34 year old Ilguaskas running his frontline, its a wonder how he got them to be so good on that side of the ball. Varejao was his only legit defensive teammate.

[SideshowBob]

Lebron is not a good man defender, he's average at best as those Synergy stats prove. He's great at playing the lanes, closes out quick, and rotates well.

Wilt averaged 30 and 30 against Russell. That didn't make Russell a poor man defender. Russell just made it clear that his goal was never to stop Wilt, as the game isn't 1-on-1, it's 5-on-5. He chose to focus on stopping the entire opposing team, rather than just stopping one player.

Man defense is overrated. If you have the choice to stop one guy or try to affect the entire team, which one would be more likely to lead to a victory?

[MaliBrah]

After John Lucas III torchered him yesterday he shouldn't make any defensive team yet alone get the DPOY.

LOL i laugh at all your posts man

[CablexDeadpool]

Lebron is not a good man defender, he's average at best as those Synergy stats prove. He's great at playing the lanes, closes out quick, and rotates well.

Wilt averaged 30 and 30 against Russell. That didn't make Russell a poor man defender. Russell just made it clear that his goal was never to stop Wilt, as the game isn't 1-on-1, it's 5-on-5. He chose to focus on stopping the entire opposing team, rather than just stopping one player.

Man defense is overrated. If you have the choice to stop one guy or try to affect the entire team, which one would be more likely to lead to a victory?

Lebron and Wade pretty much plays Free Safety within that defense. Lebron isn't focused on just one player.

Wade seems to play more man defense than Lebron though.

But you are right.