Is it easy to score 40 or 50 points in today's NBA or are the players incredibly talented?

[Billl]

Both. And also, guys don't seem to take it as personal as they used to when they are getting lit up. It's much more professional/analytical in terms of "we'll follow the game plan and think the odds will eventually revert to the mean" vs "this guy is on fire and we can't let him beat us single handedly."

[UcanUwill]

When Silver took over, he obviously tried to make scoring driven NBA, but since he started doing that, we also had 3 point shooting revolution, so we got two fronts pushing same direction and it created inbalance in my opinion.
Thing is, with this type of talent, teams will score tons no matter the rules, we saw how dominant Germany was this year offensively, where all 5 guys can shoot, run and drible, and it was under FIBA rules. But NBA has athletes that at least should be able to put more of a challenge defensively.

[JinKaz69]

Rules make definitively easier to score 40+ or 50+ points in today's game.

Are the players more talented ? I don't know.

Current players are better shooters on open spots but I feel their game has less variety than past players (low-post, mid-range, iso's, ability to play on tight spaces are missing).

[Mirotic12]

NBA defense in the regular season has been a total joke for years and years.

[Bloodbather]

It's pretty simple. Most role players learned how to shoot threes which led to a lot more space on the floor for the best scorers. Pace has gone up, also. Rules haven't been adjusted in light of this development, so high scoring performances have become more common place.

Yeah agreed, but why would the rules be adjusted. Who's to say a good average for a player is 25 ppg and we should only have 1 or 2 players average above 30 and max 25 players average above 20. We just need to accept the new reality.

I didn't say the rules should be adjusted, just pointing out the fact that they haven't been.

That being said, I do think there should be some rule changes that favor defenses, but it's not because I want the scoring averages to go down. I think it'd be a better product to watch.

[JonFromVA]

It's the opposite, in the80s early 90s anything resembling double teaming, like they do with Jokic for instance, was forbidden until the player had the ball.

Thats what I am saying, it was made ilegal because it would have been too easy to do. Now they do not have ro ban those defenses because it comes at a real cost.

Double teaming has always been legal, it's just that before zones were legalized you had to commit to the double team. You couldn't hedge or flit between two offensive players without risking being called for illegal defense. Except that's exactly what the best defenses did anyway.

Anyway, physical play seems to be pretty high from what I've seen as the refs seem to ignore a lot of things until the shot attempt is made. There's a lot of handsy stuff going on that would had been whistled back in 2004 for instance when the league changed how hand checking was being called.

On offense, a physical player can throw a shoulder in to a defender's chest and lay the ball in. It used to be in the past defenders would flop when this happened and get the call, but I often seen offensive players being allowed to extend the elbow and even chicken wing defenders.

So how do you stop a player like Giannis?

Answer: you can't, at best you can try to pack the paint and bring help a help defender to contest his shot while his primary defender is staggered.

And then on the perimeter it's gotten ridiculous. Every team has players who can cross you over, every team has players who can create their own step back 3pter, every team has players who move and shoot like Miller or Korver. The skill level is sky high.

You can't play trash defense and just wave a hand in a shooters face after the shot, even a hand in the face during the shot isn't going to do much against the great shooters. You almost have to risk fouling a 3pt shooter to truly contest their shot and then you've made it a lot easier for them to drive around you and then your defense goes in to rotation.

[MrGoat]

If we're talking about the very recent surge, Shai the other day 26 FT attempts. Reaves 22 FT attempts.

[Flash4thewin]

If the talking about the very recent surge, Shai the other day 26 FT attempts. Reaves 22 FT attempts.

It is equally important to remember the teams they faced and how take the Kings for instance, play little to no defense at all. That kinda explains a lot of it.

[sp6r=underrated]

Both arguments are correct. They aren't in tension even if people incorrectly assume they are.

But players being more skilled relative to the past is the primary reason offense is so dominant nowadays. Today's players are far better at shooting, more willing to pass to the open man, and better at ball handling than the players I grew up with. Teams also are smarter. They know which areas of the court they should from and which areas to avoid.

Consequently the players being more skilled makes it easier to score 40 or 50 because it is much harder to rotate defensively when you have to cover as much ground as today's defenses.

[prophet_of_rage]

I wonder why only ONE scoring champion since Kobe Bryant has scored 35ppg... and it was James Harden 36.1ppg

And last season only TWO players averaged 30ppg, Giannis 30.4 and Shai 32.7

Why is nobody equaling Jordan's 37.1ppg and 63 point playoff game and 41.0ppg in the NBA Finals?
And last season the average 3pt% was .360, and only .354 in the playoffs, and 3-pointers are supposed to make you talented

No more iso ball.

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[bonita_the_frog]

NBA defense in the regular season has been a total joke for years and years.

I agree, Adam Silver must really hate basketball.
All he cares about is the scoreboard...

[f4p]

Of the top 25 scorers last year, how many actually averaged 30ppg? Just 2 (Shai and Giannis) or 3 if you round up (Jokic).

Next guy avg 27 (Ant), 4 guys avg 26 (JT, KD, Cade, Brunson), 1 avg 25 (Booker) and everyone else between 24 and 21… with Powell and JDub rounding out the top 25.

All of those guys would put up similar numbers as a 1 or 2 option in any era of the past 25 years.

Cade would absolutely not score 26 ppg in any recent era. And 80 year old KD would not either. KD was basically averaging the last 2 years what he was in his prime in 2012 and 2013.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Of the top 25 scorers last year, how many actually averaged 30ppg? Just 2 (Shai and Giannis) or 3 if you round up (Jokic).

Next guy avg 27 (Ant), 4 guys avg 26 (JT, KD, Cade, Brunson), 1 avg 25 (Booker) and everyone else between 24 and 21… with Powell and JDub rounding out the top 25.

All of those guys would put up similar numbers as a 1 or 2 option in any era of the past 25 years.

Cade would absolutely not score 26 ppg in any recent era. And 80 year old KD would not either. KD was basically averaging the last 2 years what he was in his prime in 2012 and 2013.

Cade wouldn't score 26ppg in any recent era, why not exactly? He's 6'6" and can handle the ball.

20 years ago Gilbert Arenas was averaging 29ppg and Michael Redd averaged 25ppg, but Cade couldn't? And 10 years before that Jamal Mashburn averaged 24ppg.

[f4p]

While players might be more talented, just like they are in basically every sports league as time goes by, the argument mostly rings hollow. The league ORtg in 2018 was 108.6. In 1987, it was 108.3. 30 years and basically no change. And that's with a massive influx of international talent and 3 point attempts going from 4.7 per game to 29.0 per game.

Then, in just 5 years, the league Ortg jumped by over 6 points to 114.8!! In that time, 3 point attempts only went from 29.0 to 34.2 per game and international talent had largely flattened out as a proportion of the overall league. And even if you want to argue we've had higher end guys like jokic and Giannis, that has been cancelled out by the US MVP guys from the 2010s not being replaced at all.

There is no talent-based explanation for such an absolutely massive shift in league environment in just 5 years. Not enough talent could have been added.

But there has been a massive shift in allowing moving picks, essentially making traveling require 4 steps instead of 3, and in teams prioritizing shooting and getting up the court quickly over any sort of defensive skills. Which makes sense, because trying to hold another team to a low point total when they can just set moving screens and carry and travel to score with all their 3 point shooters doesn't make sense versus just having a "when in Rome" approach. Just like 25 years ago having a shooter who couldnt guard anyone didn't make sense because your shooter was probably taking a lot of long 2's and the rules allowed you to physically prevent scoring and the other team wasn't going to have 5 shooters you needed to guard so playing defense and rebounding was at much more of a premium.

[Ben-N1ce]

Reaves would be the logo if he played against plumbers.

[Calvin Klein]

of course it's easier. Just as it was in the early 60s.

There are more points available with more possessions, more 3s, more rules that limit the offense. This shouldn't even be a question.

Teams regularly put up 140 point games like it's nothing.

[JellosJigglin]

The league removed physicality from the game. That has changed the culture and player attitudes about how to play defense. It used to be considered risky and even dangerous for small guys to go into the paint. You were expected to lay out anyone who keeps coming into the paint. That was just baked into the culture. Everyone knew it, everyone accepted it as the way it was.

You would knock them on their ass to send a message and let them take 2 free throws for a common foul and at least one new bruise. If they did it again then you knock them down a little harder. This was why we respected guys like AI and Isaiah Thomas who seemed to keep coming back for more without any fear. It was a big-man's game back then and scoring inside was the top priority, not the 3-ball.

Now days I see guys dribbling into the paint uncontested and even a light tap on the wrist sends them to the line. It's just a different culture. A much softer game.

[f4p]

And then on the perimeter it's gotten ridiculous. Every team has players who can cross you over, every team has players who can create their own step back 3pter, every team has players who move and shoot like Miller or Korver. The skill level is sky high.

So I think a lot of this is just practicing, not some inherent skill of the increased talent pool. Like practically no one ever took a step back 3, mostly because it would have been illegal for the first 70 years of the league, then it got popularized and the same guys who weren't taking it became the guys taking them. Because they just practiced it. PFs who had never taken 3s in their life would come back after an off-season of practice with a 35% 3 point shot. Professional athletes get good at things they practice. I have no doubt if you told the average 90s guard that they could launch a 3 off the dribble after a pick without being benched by the coach, that they could do it. Or if you told guys they could give their defender the Heisman like Tatum that they would have learned it. Or if you told Barkley that he could just run over people and it would be a defensive foul like with giannis, that he would start doing it. Or if you said defense and rebounding and strength don't matter but 3s do, that a lot of seemingly non-shooter PFs would suddenly have had better 3 point shots.

You can't play trash defense and just wave a hand in a shooters face after the shot, even a hand in the face during the shot isn't going to do much against the great shooters. You almost have to risk fouling a 3pt shooter to truly contest their shot and then you've made it a lot easier for them to drive around you and then your defense goes in to rotation.

That's another thing. You used to contest jump shots without too much worry of a foul. Now you even look at a 3 point shooter and not only is it a foul, it's a 3 shot foul. Foulong someone on a almost automatic 2 point dunk attempt is now substantially less penalized than fouling someone on a 3 point shot that's worth on average about 1 point. They've completely flipped the value of those fouls and now a league where everyone can shoot 3s is also a league where you can't contest those 3s because the risk reward is crazy against you.

[Myth]

Probably related, but the free throws are out of control. 12-16 free throws seem regular for star players now. Shai had a 26 free throw game. I can't believe the league made it even easier to be sent to the foul line when there were already concerns about the league being soft and games being slowed down. You think people are sick of how many 3s are shot in games? This free throw thing is going to be a bigger issue eventually. It seems the league wants to draw people in with stats, but they will be turned away by the whistles and stoppage in play for free throws. I have never understood why the league thinks 100 and less points in a game is a problem when people are fully willing to watch sports like soccer and hockey that end with scores like 3-1.

[DavidSterned]

The "players are more skilled" argument really only applies to one skill: 3 point shooting. I reject the ball handling arguments since the rules are applied so differently now for them that it might as well be a different sport compared to pre-2000.

The homogenization of skill sets and playing styles really hasn't made the game more appealing. The league basically has just emphasized one skill over all others to the point where they are verging on being obsolete.

How fun would the NFL be if they made an even further gigantic reduction in the amount of defensive physicality allowed and the rules were also changed to allow teams to have as many eligible receivers as they wanted? So now it's essentially just one QB with 10 wide receivers going against some glorified traffic cones on defense. Positionless football with every team strategy feeling the exact same and the personnel feeling weirdly redundant? Would make for a super crappy product.

That kind of feels like where the NBA has been headed.