I used to watch the NBA. I don't anymore.

[chi4lyfe]

It's too radical but...

THE GAME NEEDS TO BE PLAYED BY 4's & 5's

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I don't mind the positionless era much. Just... don't twist calls to eliminate a playstyle or positions for the sake of "casuals." Show some damn integrity, and let the chips fall where they may, NBA.

[wco81]

It's funny someone brings up Alex English. The Nuggets with English and Issel didn't have any low-post game. They ran a lot and got up shots quick.

They weren't looking to take contested shots with those high release points.

You could say those Nuggets were kind of like the prototypes of the modern game, with forwards dominating the scoring, not a low post scorer.

I don't think English or Issel or later Vanderweigh had a back to the basket game at all.

But this narrative that scoring in the midrange or in the low post somehow takes more skills than shooting 3s, where does this come from?

No scoring midrange and in the paint takes height and length, not necessarily more skill. They do take a lot of skills development, to get the footwork right and a lot of repetition to develop the muscle memory for those shots.

Meanwhile, KD, one of the greatest midrange scorers of all time is playing now, not 20-30 years ago.

[G35]

Back in the days of Stockton and Malone I used to live and breath Jazz games. I'd watch every second. IF I couldn't watch I'd listen. I loved the game back then.

Then they moved on. But, I still loved watching AK and a bunch of scrubs try to win games. It was a little frustrating watching them execute the offense to get good looks but just not have enough talent to make open shots. But the energy and effort they put into the game was infectious.

I still enjoyed the Boozer and Deron days. It was a lesser product than Stockton and Malone, but it was still rewarding to watch. They still ran plays. They tried pretty hard.

Then Sloan retired.

I haven't enjoyed basketball since. The game used to be beautiful. Not just the Jazz. But, the Kings under Adleman. The Spurs under Pop. Yes, even the Bulls were a joy to watch.

But, today the game stinks. I have a perfectly good team to watch. And I don't. I check box scores. I follow the offseason. But, to sit down and watch a game?? Nah. It's just ugly basketball IMHO. You don't see the teamwork anymore. You don't see the physicality. You don't see a team imposing their will. It's more like a glorified game of pop-a-shot. And the Jazz are freaking good at pop-a-shot. But, I still don't want to watch that.

I want to watch post play. I want to see backdoor cuts. Throw me a UCLA cut now and then. Something. But, it's either iso or PNR every trip down the floor for every team. It's boring. Even winning is boring. ****, even the playoff are boring. Can you believe that? I don't even watch my team in the playoffs anymore.

I guess the rest of the world is perfectly happy with this product, but I'm old enough to remember something better. And I'm sad. I believe the fact that 3>2 has destroyed the product. It took a while, but it finally did.

I think they need to move the 3pt line back. Way back. The 3pt shot should be a high risk, high reward desperation shot. Not the bread and butter of an offense. You should be looking to make a 3 in specific dire circumstances, not simply every time you can get one. So, push it back about 3ft, let the Currys and Dame's of the league still have value. But, no more corner 3s. Also, if you are fouled on a 3pt shot, you get 2 free throws, not 3. So, less flopping for free throws on the 3pt line. If you are going to shoot there you need to be actually trying to score of the math isn't in your favor.

I wonder if I'm the only old timer that has simply stopped watching games now. Or if we all have decided box scores and offseason moves are the only thing left of interest?

I'm getting old too. I watch a game here or there, but it is too repetitive in style, there is not much defense imo, and advanced metrics dictate too much of how teams play.

For an era that cherishes diversity, this is the least diverse that I have seen. Everyone does the same thing, chuck three's. It is not entertaining. I enjoyed seeing different styles go up against each other and see which one prevailed:
- Bulls triangle system
- Knicks/Heat physical defense with a good big man
- Jazz pick and roll precision with a lunch pail mentality
- Lakers Showtime glitz and glamour
- Celtics parquet floor with east coast fierceness and leprechaun magic
- Suns run and gun offense
- Rockets 3pt bombers with ATG big man in the middle
- Kings Princeton offense with back cuts and interior big men passing
- Pistons Bad Boy defense with a IDGAF about your feelings attitude


There are no teams that have a personality...it is all the same, at least how it looks to me. They need to bring defense back to balance out the offense......

[Warspite]

Evolution of the game of basketball is usually based on doing it better than their predecessors. I could see how liking an older product is understandable but it doesn't mean the game was better, only that coaches and players found out how to change the game by exploiting the weakness of past players or positioning like the traditional center is no longer valued as much as in the past.

Yeah but we are talking about the NBA. A WWE type loose affiliated form of basketball.

The coaches and players are just responding to rules changes and the changing nature of young men. Kids realize that learning to shoot from 3 spots on the floor is the quickest way into the league.


I love watching the NCAA. Somehow college kids can play multiple defenses and run dozens of set pays all the while going to college full time. NBA players lack the time, effort and energy to learn to run more than 3 plays and play anything other than a loose zone. Its up to the rules committee to change the rules to make the game better.

[LightTheBeam]

Yup. I'm not even old, started watching In late 90s. The game is not nearly the same. Flop for free throws, take 3s. It's as boring as you can get. I'm addicted to pain so I watch, but it's truly awful to see what it's become

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[BostonCouchGM]

agreed. It's become a laughable joke and borefest. And to make matters worse, the players clearly don't like the fans and are unlikable divas. All they have to do to fix it is call the rules on the books. No more carries, travels, push offs and most importantly, illegal moving screens. Then you'd see teams forced to move without the ball. You'd see the actual talented players not products of rules breaking. I still pay attention but it's no longer must see TV like it used to be during the 80s and 90s.

[bwgood77]

it's ok, most nba fans don't watch the games anyways nowadays. they just look at memes and social media posts

Or as you know from your team forum, talk about unlikely trades, even if your team is playing as well as it ever has.

[SoulJah]

We went from Kobe, Jordan, Vince, McGrady, Iverson, Ray Allen etc. battling for their teams to these type of sensitive divas. That is what killed the today's NBA for me.

[rasta_marley]

Spoiler:

Back in the days of Stockton and Malone I used to live and breath Jazz games. I'd watch every second. IF I couldn't watch I'd listen. I loved the game back then.

Then they moved on. But, I still loved watching AK and a bunch of scrubs try to win games. It was a little frustrating watching them execute the offense to get good looks but just not have enough talent to make open shots. But the energy and effort they put into the game was infectious.

I still enjoyed the Boozer and Deron days. It was a lesser product than Stockton and Malone, but it was still rewarding to watch. They still ran plays. They tried pretty hard.

Then Sloan retired.

I haven't enjoyed basketball since. The game used to be beautiful. Not just the Jazz. But, the Kings under Adleman. The Spurs under Pop. Yes, even the Bulls were a joy to watch.

But, today the game stinks. I have a perfectly good team to watch. And I don't. I check box scores. I follow the offseason. But, to sit down and watch a game?? Nah. It's just ugly basketball IMHO. You don't see the teamwork anymore. You don't see the physicality. You don't see a team imposing their will. It's more like a glorified game of pop-a-shot. And the Jazz are freaking good at pop-a-shot. But, I still don't want to watch that.

I want to watch post play. I want to see backdoor cuts. Throw me a UCLA cut now and then. Something. But, it's either iso or PNR every trip down the floor for every team. It's boring. Even winning is boring. ****, even the playoff are boring. Can you believe that? I don't even watch my team in the playoffs anymore.

I guess the rest of the world is perfectly happy with this product, but I'm old enough to remember something better. And I'm sad. I believe the fact that 3>2 has destroyed the product. It took a while, but it finally did.

I think they need to move the 3pt line back. Way back. The 3pt shot should be a high risk, high reward desperation shot. Not the bread and butter of an offense. You should be looking to make a 3 in specific dire circumstances, not simply every time you can get one. So, push it back about 3ft, let the Currys and Dame's of the league still have value. But, no more corner 3s. Also, if you are fouled on a 3pt shot, you get 2 free throws, not 3. So, less flopping for free throws on the 3pt line. If you are going to shoot there you need to be actually trying to score of the math isn't in your favor.

I wonder if I'm the only old timer that has simply stopped watching games now. Or if we all have decided box scores and offseason moves are the only thing left of interest?

I'm only in my 30s but I agree can't get into the game like I used to. Used to be 3s were exciting and now their boring. Also I've always enjoyed more defensive oriented teams and the game hates them now lol.

Other than maybe lebron's cavs that won, has their been a non top 10 defense to win a title recently? Raptors were one of the best defenses we've seen a few years back. Lakers were a great defense in 2020. Bucks were a great defensive team, a bit underwhelming in the regular season, but they were number 1 the year before and they showed those chops in the playoffs. We all know the warriors were great defensively.

You misunderstand the game overall is much less defensive orientated and is all about scoring then in the late 90s and early 2000s.
It's all about the excitement of scoring 3s now.

[SOUL]

We went from Kobe, Jordan, Vince, McGrady, Iverson, Ray Allen etc. battling for their teams to these type of sensitive divas. That is what killed the today's NBA for me.

Kobe was SUPER close to signing with Chicago Bulls but Shaq got traded instead, Iverson eventually demanded a trade, Jordan retired twice in his prime, McGrady didn't want to wait for Howard and preferred to be traded, Ray Allen bailed on the Celtics to join that guy you quoted and Carter wanted out of Toronto. What kind of revisionist **** is this.

[dhsilv2]

Spoiler:

I'm only in my 30s but I agree can't get into the game like I used to. Used to be 3s were exciting and now their boring. Also I've always enjoyed more defensive oriented teams and the game hates them now lol.

Other than maybe lebron's cavs that won, has their been a non top 10 defense to win a title recently? Raptors were one of the best defenses we've seen a few years back. Lakers were a great defense in 2020. Bucks were a great defensive team, a bit underwhelming in the regular season, but they were number 1 the year before and they showed those chops in the playoffs. We all know the warriors were great defensively.

You misunderstand the game overall is much less defensive orientated and is all about scoring then in the late 90s and early 2000s.
It's all about the excitement of scoring 3s now.

With how the games changed, defense is no less important. Today it's harder for a singular defender to have MVP level impact though Gobert is certainly trying to prove that wrong. But from a team perspective, never has it been harder to hide poor defenders and never has being a true liability on that end been more punished.

Yet somehow everyone here wants to go back to a not even 10 year period in a league that's 75 years old. That era is best chracterized as being the era before the next wave of stars came into the league and when most of the stars from the last wave of talent had all retired. In short...it was an era of less talented teams in general.

[GoldenGoose]

I’ve had this discussion with several people from older generations over the last two years and have found that it’s often less about basketball and more about their personal political beliefs. While this obviously isn’t always the case, and is also specific to the U.S., I do think that this take is more frequent due to the insane polarization in American society.

[mynameKIM]

I also dont watch as much as i used to. But i can recognize that its not the game that has changed. Its me that has moved on. Fans are attached to their favorite players. When you watch them retire one by one, so too does your interest in the sport. You lose it bit by bit eventually you stop caring as much.

[TwitterFingers]

Nba used to be my favorite sport. Not anymore. It’s just boring

[xdrta+]

It's just amazing how many people can't stand the NBA but love to comment on it. And tell everyone how awful it is. There are plenty of entertainments that I can't stand (some types of music in particular) but I've never been tempted to go on their forums and tell them how awful they are. Seems odd to me.

[CM17]

Well, I'm interested how some players play, so there is always a reason to watch some games.

Yet looking at a some shot charts I'm really shocked how one sided the game has become. Basically no mid range shot. I don't even get why players are celebrating a made 3pointer like it's something special.
It's weird to me how some people are making fun of the times teams shot 40% from the field, yet enjoy today's 35% 3 point contest.

A few rule changes would definitely make it more interesting again.

[gabri3l3]

I think its less the game changing and the person (you) changing. People change. Interests change. Eventually things get old. But perhaps if your team made the jump from good team to great team you'd be interested again.

I think maybe my team is just exceptionally boring. It only takes one or two pull up 25ft shots with 18seconds left on the clock before I change the channel. That shot might be good math, but it's terrible entertainment.

yeah let's go back to the ricky davis and jamal mashburns of this world jacking up contested 18 footers

[wco81]

If you haven't already, you can vote in this thread and we can quantify some of these takes.

viewtopic.php?p=95795307#p95795307

[a8bil]

I don't get the, "I miss the mid-range jumper" posters. You can get plenty of that with DeRozan if you like. Basketball has just become smarter, with players taking higher efficiency shots if they can make them. GSW showed that with a few high efficiency players and a great defense, you can run away with games, seasons, and championships. There are ways to reduce reliance on the 3 point shot if the League wanted to.

[Johnlac1]

Back in the days of Stockton and Malone I used to live and breath Jazz games. I'd watch every second. IF I couldn't watch I'd listen. I loved the game back then.

Then they moved on. But, I still loved watching AK and a bunch of scrubs try to win games. It was a little frustrating watching them execute the offense to get good looks but just not have enough talent to make open shots. But the energy and effort they put into the game was infectious.

I still enjoyed the Boozer and Deron days. It was a lesser product than Stockton and Malone, but it was still rewarding to watch. They still ran plays. They tried pretty hard.

Then Sloan retired.

I haven't enjoyed basketball since. The game used to be beautiful. Not just the Jazz. But, the Kings under Adleman. The Spurs under Pop. Yes, even the Bulls were a joy to watch.

But, today the game stinks. I have a perfectly good team to watch. And I don't. I check box scores. I follow the offseason. But, to sit down and watch a game?? Nah. It's just ugly basketball IMHO. You don't see the teamwork anymore. You don't see the physicality. You don't see a team imposing their will. It's more like a glorified game of pop-a-shot. And the Jazz are freaking good at pop-a-shot. But, I still don't want to watch that.

I want to watch post play. I want to see backdoor cuts. Throw me a UCLA cut now and then. Something. But, it's either iso or PNR every trip down the floor for every team. It's boring. Even winning is boring. ****, even the playoff are boring. Can you believe that? I don't even watch my team in the playoffs anymore.

I guess the rest of the world is perfectly happy with this product, but I'm old enough to remember something better. And I'm sad. I believe the fact that 3>2 has destroyed the product. It took a while, but it finally did.

I think they need to move the 3pt line back. Way back. The 3pt shot should be a high risk, high reward desperation shot. Not the bread and butter of an offense. You should be looking to make a 3 in specific dire circumstances, not simply every time you can get one. So, push it back about 3ft, let the Currys and Dame's of the league still have value. But, no more corner 3s. Also, if you are fouled on a 3pt shot, you get 2 free throws, not 3. So, less flopping for free throws on the 3pt line. If you are going to shoot there you need to be actually trying to score of the math isn't in your favor.

I wonder if I'm the only old timer that has simply stopped watching games now. Or if we all have decided box scores and offseason moves are the only thing left of interest?

No you're not. The game has become unwatchable mainly thanks to the three ball. You don't have to move the line back. Just award more free throws for a fouled two point attempt after a certain amount of two point attempts. And automatic points after so many fouls shooting or otherwise other than offensive fouls.
I simply can't stand to watch games where teams simply run down the floor to throw up a three ball. That's most games today.