The Nets - What are they?

[Trader_Joe]

I get the optimism here after all the dark days, but the last couple pages of this thread are pretty pipe-dreamy. Gathering a handful of solid players isn't usually a good recipe for a rebuild--seems to me that tends to end up somewhere between the current Magic and the current Pistons (with maybe the pre-Rose Bulls as the most optimistic comp). Very soon they'll either have to pay those decent guys well, or they'll have to give a few up to go after some better players who still won't make them much.

Not trying to rain on parades, just saying that I would be really really nervous if I was Marks and had a mandate to build a long-term winner. Seems like they need a lot of luck to break out of that treadmill zone--do other people see it differently?

I think this off-season is critical.
There are almost two best cases scenarios, but they are far apart from each other directional-wise and probability-wise.
1st best case, FAs take note of a new PO team in the East and they sign a true Max or two
2nd best case, either through luck, tanking, injury, whatever they end up with a top pick to add a Duke player though perhaps not appealing to FAs just yet

More likely case, they miss the PO's and end up with a 10ish pick and do not attract a max FA, which likely means Russell is resigned and they keep flexibility for 2020. Overall, not worried about money yet and being locked into anything. LeVert has another 1.5 years and then a small cap hold. J.Allen another 2.5 years and a small cap hold. Crabbe expires in time for 2020. Dinwiddie is on a short and team friendly deal, so it's really only Russell that we have to worry about with a large long-term contract. RHJ is not getting big money.

Overall, it's also not just the players we are evaluating here. Marks has shown to very good GM, Atkinson a pretty good coach and the organization has done while finding and developing players and culture. That is sustainable as long as the regime is in place.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I really feel bad when Nets and Knicks are doing badly because both their commentary teams are great. I watched nearly all of the Knicks games when they won 54 with Melo, Kidd and JR.
At least Nets are doing well.

Don't compare Nets commentary to the Knicks. We are far superior. Frazier only vocabulary is perculate and has a very monotone personality.

even if you don't like clyde over sarah kustok (preposterous) you really comparing ian eagle to mike breen? mike breen ends that broadcast booth battle alone. let alone their chemistry.

"percolate," by the way is a minuscule, lilliputian piece of clyde's vast, precocious, sagacious, serendipitous repertoire.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Future is bright for them. Sean Marks has an eye for talent and makes smart moves. Kenny Atkinson is a good coach who gets his team to play hard and smart. They have a very nice young core, especially considering the difficult situation they were in draft wise.

I think Jarrett Allen-Caris LeVert-D'Angelo Russell with Spencer Dinwiddie as the sixth man is their main core going forward. One of Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Rodions Kurucs or Dzanan Musa probably makes his way into the starting lineup going forward. The other starter probably needs to be a FA acquisition, they need a star to lead this core.

Kawhi Leonard would look really good with the Nets.. he looks good everywhere. I think Tobias might land with the Nets. Really promising stuff from them.

they got crushed with the picks they lost, but they've made up a lot of ground. a FA signing or two and they're players in the east. much respect for not laying down. they made some smart moves to acquire assets in the downtime.

[DarkXaero]

As a fan of the team, I'm not sure myself. I've been of the mindset that our talent is better than what our record has indicated the past few seasons. We have a good young core, and a lot of depth for a team that isn't supposed to be good. We're coached well for the most part, aside from late game execution. What also sets us apart is our emphasis on culture and having a group of players who have bought into it.

Like others have mentioned, we lack superstar talent but you don't need a superstar to make the playoffs in this weak Eastern conference. I don't know if we're going to make the playoffs but lately it's looking like we will. We're playing our best stretch of basketball while missing our best player arguably (Levert). But one thing seems pretty certain and its that we won't be tanking or be bad enough to land a top pick in a year when we finally have our own pick back.

[DeRoma]

I really feel bad when Nets and Knicks are doing badly because both their commentary teams are great. I watched nearly all of the Knicks games when they won 54 with Melo, Kidd and JR.
At least Nets are doing well.

Don't compare Nets commentary to the Knicks. We are far superior. Frazier only vocabulary is perculate and has a very monotone personality.

even if you don't like clyde over sarah kustok (preposterous) you really comparing ian eagle to mike breen? mike breen ends that broadcast booth battle alone. let alone their chemistry.

"percolate," by the way is a minuscule, lilliputian piece of clyde's vast, precocious, sagacious, serendipitous repertoire.

IDK man every time I watch Knicks broadcast the two words I hear from Clyde is overzealous and percolate.

I'd admit Sarah Kustok is meh but, RJ, Ryan Ruoco, Ian Eagle, Jim Spanarkle are all gems.

[DarkXaero]

I really feel bad when Nets and Knicks are doing badly because both their commentary teams are great. I watched nearly all of the Knicks games when they won 54 with Melo, Kidd and JR.
At least Nets are doing well.

Don't compare Nets commentary to the Knicks. We are far superior. Frazier only vocabulary is perculate and has a very monotone personality.

even if you don't like clyde over sarah kustok (preposterous) you really comparing ian eagle to mike breen? mike breen ends that broadcast booth battle alone. let alone their chemistry.

"percolate," by the way is a minuscule, lilliputian piece of clyde's vast, precocious, sagacious, serendipitous repertoire.

Sorry but Ian Eagle is easily better than Mike Breen for me. I love Clyde tho, his shtick is still entertaining for me. Kustok sounds awkward but she's pretty good too, especially on a broadcast like last night, when she was paired with Ian Eagle & Richard Jefferson.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Don't compare Nets commentary to the Knicks. We are far superior. Frazier only vocabulary is perculate and has a very monotone personality.

even if you don't like clyde over sarah kustok (preposterous) you really comparing ian eagle to mike breen? mike breen ends that broadcast booth battle alone. let alone their chemistry.

"percolate," by the way is a minuscule, lilliputian piece of clyde's vast, precocious, sagacious, serendipitous repertoire.

IDK man every time I watch Knicks broadcast the two words I hear from Clyde is overzealous and percolate.

I'd admit Sarah Kustok is meh but, RJ, Ryan Ruoco, Ian Eagle, Jim Spanarkle are all gems.

nets have a very good broadcast team. not pooping on them at all. it's hard to find quality crews on league pass. NY has 2.

just saying, the knicks have always had eliteness in the booth. marv albert before breen. that's tough smoke to ask for.

but yes, nets broadcast team is good. i like ruoco too. he's an up-and-coming star.

i can't look at or hear kustok without thinking about her whole defending her dad over her mom's murder thing. i know that has nothing to do with her color work, which also is good.

[HotelVitale]

Like others have mentioned, we lack superstar talent but you don't need a superstar to make the playoffs in this weak Eastern conference. I don't know if we're going to make the playoffs but lately it's looking like we will. We're playing our best stretch of basketball while missing our best player arguably (Levert). But one thing seems pretty certain and its that we won't be tanking or be bad enough to land a top pick in a year when we finally have our own pick back.

That seems like a good take. Though making the playoffs and getting smoked, without having any future superstars in the pipeline, isn't likely to attract a top-flight FA. Even if you add a Tobias Harris, that's still not pushing you into legit territory, and it's leaving you with less flexibility of course. I'm definitely not saying you're screwed or anything, just that if I was betting right now based just on the odds, I'd say you're likely to be in that treadmill zone for another 4 years or so. Marks is smart and will put you in position to have some big breaks, though, and getting one or two could change everything.

More likely case, they miss the PO's and end up with a 10ish pick and do not attract a max FA, which likely means Russell is resigned and they keep flexibility for 2020. Overall, not worried about money yet and being locked into anything.

Sure but you're not winning now because of Allen and Dinwiddie alone. The ensemble is what's pulling out games, and bringing back each of the guys like Davis, Harris, etc will cost. I'm just saying that it's hard to rebuild without landing top-notch talent, and getting to this stage--surprising people with decent talent and scrappy play--is easier than getting to the next one.

[Rockice_24]

They are trending in the right direction. They should have two plans the next 2 years.

1. They should be doing everything they can to convince KD and Kawhi to team up here. They would have to do some cap work to fit them both after the Din extension but they can make it happen by unloading Crabbe this offseason to a team with cap space and coughing up picks to make it happen if they both commit or one for that matter then you wouldn't have to unload Crabbe at all.

2. If they strike out then you look for a plan B with a player like Harris or Middleton to pair with your young core and try to retain Russell on a reasonable deal like 18M. You then continue the development of the team. starting 5 would be Russell, Levert, Middleton or Harris, Kurucs, Allen and a nice bench of DIn, Harris, Musa, Davis make a playoff push which they should be able to be a top 4-5 seed in the east with that squad. Then you have the ability to have cap space to sign AD should he opt out and go for him.

If in 2020 you have Russell, Levert, Middleton/Harris, AD, Allen you have a contender which could lure AD here with a deep bench. DIn, Harris, Musa, and whoever else they draft with their multiple picks this year.

[R-DAWG]

What the Nets are right now is an attractive free agent destination - max cap space, good core of young players/assets that can compliment a star or be used in a trade, or both, attractive market. As others have mentioned a smart front office.

You have to give their ownership a ton of credit. They accepted that they made mistakes with Deron Williams and with the Brooklyn picks, but they accepted the sunk costs and focused on having a plan. They accumulated a bunch of picks and while trading 3 lotto picks will always hurt - D'Angello Russell is still a top level prospect and they were opportunistic trading back into the draft by eating contracts, moving Thad Young and Bogdonovic, also trading the last 2 years of rookie scale Plumlee for 4 rookie years of RHJ. You turn around and Russell, LaVert, RHJ, Allen, that's a nice group of young guys. Also, they developed Joe Harris and Spencer Dinwiddee into NBA caliber players. You really have to give Sean Marks and Kenny Atkinson a ton of credit.


The question is what's next. Your not going to resign all 3 of RHJ/LaVert/Russell to long term deals after paying Dinwiddee. They have to make a decision on RHJ and Russell this summer. The way Russell is playing he's going to get a big offer sheet and givin his current production and upside, he's not a guy you want to let walk at age 23. So RHJ is likely the odd man out. Do you try to move him for a pick (Houston makes a ton of sense) to restock the cheap talent. Or do you package him in a bigger deal for a star level guy. With LaVert you have an extra season to figure out if the start of this season was a fluke or the real deal and if he can stay healthy. He was a projected lotto pick prior to not being able to stay healthy at Michigan.

Overall they should run the model of trending and getting better while retaining flexibility to add star level talent. That includes making difficult decisions of who to pay and who to convert to future cost control assets. Or in the case of Dinwindde, sign him to a good contract which makes him a more attractive trade asset.

[Prokorov]

My dream signings this off season is one Max Cat like Kawhi, Julius Randle for around $12-$15 Mil, and restricted offer to Frank the Tank Kaminsky. Add two first round picks...and we got a top 4 seed in the East.

Julius randle is the absolute worst fit in the league for the nets. that would be a horrific signing.

Exaggerate much!!? The Nets have TWO players over 6'10"...why the hell wouldn't they need another big man that can bang?

Because its 2018 not 1988. we dont need big guys who can bang. we need wings who can create their own offense.

[MrDollarBills]

Nets have no stars but were a super-deep team, especially before LeVert injury. 8 starter level players are a great achievement for team management considering they have no own draft picks lately. But they desperately need a star, and should finally to start to use since next summer the fact that Brooklyn is a much bigger market than New Jersey.

They weren't really in New Jersey though they were in Newark which is just across the river from Brooklyn. Their old stadium is like 30 minutes drive from the Barclays center.

The Nets only played in Newark for like 2 years. The rest of the time we were in East Rutherford, NJ which was one of the worst locations to ever have an NBA team.

[MrDollarBills]

I really feel bad when Nets and Knicks are doing badly because both their commentary teams are great. I watched nearly all of the Knicks games when they won 54 with Melo, Kidd and JR.
At least Nets are doing well.

Don't compare Nets commentary to the Knicks. We are far superior. Frazier only vocabulary is perculate and has a very monotone personality.

Mike Breen is an absolute pro. The Nets and Knicks have two of the best PBP men in the business.

[MrDollarBills]

I really feel bad when Nets and Knicks are doing badly because both their commentary teams are great. I watched nearly all of the Knicks games when they won 54 with Melo, Kidd and JR.
At least Nets are doing well.

Don't compare Nets commentary to the Knicks. We are far superior. Frazier only vocabulary is perculate and has a very monotone personality.

even if you don't like clyde over sarah kustok (preposterous) you really comparing ian eagle to mike breen? mike breen ends that broadcast booth battle alone. let alone their chemistry.

"percolate," by the way is a minuscule, lilliputian piece of clyde's vast, precocious, sagacious, serendipitous repertoire.

It's really not worth it to have a pissing contest between Eagle and Breen. Both of them are all time great announcers.

[NaturalThunder]

OKC needed Paul George to go ultimate-cheat mode during the 4th quarter a couple of weeks ago for the Thunder to come back from a 20-point deficit in the 4th quarter to beat them, or the Nets would have another impressive win on their resume.

[DeRoma]

Don't compare Nets commentary to the Knicks. We are far superior. Frazier only vocabulary is perculate and has a very monotone personality.

even if you don't like clyde over sarah kustok (preposterous) you really comparing ian eagle to mike breen? mike breen ends that broadcast booth battle alone. let alone their chemistry.

"percolate," by the way is a minuscule, lilliputian piece of clyde's vast, precocious, sagacious, serendipitous repertoire.

It's really not worth it to have a pissing contest between Eagle and Breen. Both of them are all time great announcers.

I'd agree. It's really between analyst i.e. Clyde vs Kustok, RJ, Jim. I'd pick the Nets

BTW if we have to pick between Ian or Ruoco in the future. I'd pick Ruoco because he bleeds Nets. No disrespect to Ian who is probably the better play by play announcer. I just a person who genuinely wants to be here.

[Jeffrey]

In the end, the Nets will need a star player to take the next step.. we all know that. The hard part is to find a star player that is willing to sign with the Nets and play their brand of ball.

[HotelVitale]

2. If they strike out then you look for a plan B with a player like Harris or Middleton to pair with your young core and try to retain Russell on a reasonable deal like 18M. You then continue the development of the team. starting 5 would be Russell, Levert, Middleton or Harris, Kurucs, Allen and a nice bench of DIn, Harris, Musa, Davis make a playoff push which they should be able to be a top 4-5 seed in the east with that squad. Then you have the ability to have cap space to sign AD should he opt out and go for him. If in 2020 you have Russell, Levert, Middleton/Harris, AD, Allen you have a contender which could lure AD here with a deep bench. DIn, Harris, Musa, and whoever else they draft with their multiple picks this year.

Well your plan A is wildly unlikely and the plan B is a big stretch. First, they're definitely not favorites to sign a Harris or Middleton (Middleton's probably staying put and there are a dozen other teams with cap space whom Harris might prefer), and even if they did it seems unlikely that that's going to push them to a 4 seed. It could happen but I'd happily bet a few hundred bucks against it.

You also left off that re-signing RH, Davis, and Russell plus a max FA puts them at the cap limit. Even if there were some insane situation where AD leaves to join a decent but all-star-less core, they would have to trade away a big chunk of those pieces to get enough cap room.

It seems most likely to me that they don't sign anyone big next year but get a couple of decent guys on short deals, and they end up in the same spot fighting for an 8th seed. Then the year after they can take another shot at a big FA and maybe land a lower level star. How good that team is depends on how their draft picks turn out, but those odds aren't great and I'd still bet on them being short of a 4th/5th seed by then. Rebuilds are tough.

[Rockice_24]

2. If they strike out then you look for a plan B with a player like Harris or Middleton to pair with your young core and try to retain Russell on a reasonable deal like 18M. You then continue the development of the team. starting 5 would be Russell, Levert, Middleton or Harris, Kurucs, Allen and a nice bench of DIn, Harris, Musa, Davis make a playoff push which they should be able to be a top 4-5 seed in the east with that squad. Then you have the ability to have cap space to sign AD should he opt out and go for him. If in 2020 you have Russell, Levert, Middleton/Harris, AD, Allen you have a contender which could lure AD here with a deep bench. DIn, Harris, Musa, and whoever else they draft with their multiple picks this year.

Well your plan A is wildly unlikely and the plan B is a big stretch. First, they're definitely not favorites to sign a Harris or Middleton (Middleton's probably staying put and there are a dozen other teams with cap space whom Harris might prefer), and even if they did it seems unlikely that that's going to push them to a 4 seed. It could happen but I'd happily bet a few hundred bucks against it.

You also left off that re-signing RH, Davis, and Russell plus a max FA puts them at the cap limit. Even if there were some insane situation where AD leaves to join a decent but all-star-less core, they would have to trade away a big chunk of those pieces to get enough cap room.

It seems most likely to me that they don't sign anyone big next year but get a couple of decent guys on short deals, and they end up in the same spot fighting for an 8th seed. Then the year after they can take another shot at a big FA and maybe land a lower level star. How good that team is depends on how their draft picks turn out, but those odds aren't great and I'd still bet on them being short of a 4th/5th seed by then. Rebuilds are tough.

Sure both plans are unlikely but if KD is really planning on leaving GS and Kawhi has ties to Marks and a bunch of the Brooklyn staff then there really isn't a better option for them. KP in NY is injury prone, LAC would have to gut their entire roster to land both. Lebron is in his mid 30's already. If these guys want to break the mold and team up other than the LA weather Brooklyn can surround them with the best team. Yes unlikey but that should be their plan. Harris is from the area and if LAC needs to let him walk an up and coming team from his home area is something that might interest him.

As for part 2. The can certainly have the ability to sign AD. The cap is rising and they have a huge expiring in Crabbe coming off the books even with resigning Russell.

Russ - 20 (estimated)
Allen - 4
Max FA - 27
Kurucs - 1.9
Levert - 8.1 cap hold
Musa - 2
Din - 11
Harris - 15 (cap hold)
(2) 1st round picks - 3
4 roster space cap hold - 4
Total 96M give or take
Cap = 118
Cap Space = 22
AD max contract = 35M

So they can easily release Harris' cap hold even though we'd love to keep him but if AD wants to come then you have to do it and they would have 37M to sign AD.

Lots of what if's but certainly and easily possible.

And yes adding a talent like Middleton or Harris to a team 2 games out of the 6th seed without their best player would put them in the 4-5 seed range.

[HotelVitale]

A) Sure both plans are unlikely but if KD is really planning on leaving GS and Kawhi has ties to Marks and a bunch of the Brooklyn staff then there really isn't a better option for them. B) As for part 2. The cap is rising and they have a huge expiring in Crabbe coming off the books even with resigning Russell.
C) And yes adding a talent like Middleton or Harris to a team 2 games out of the 6th seed without their best player would put them in the 4-5 seed range.

A) Okay, then there's no "plan B," just two best case scenarios. Obviously they'll take either one of those.
B) T Harris max would be closer to $32m, and you're also leaving your team pretty thin (also Levert's hold might be a little higher?)
C) We're not in court and you're not the Nets' lawyer--you know this is a goofy way of phrasing the current Nets' situation. They're 14-18 and, while they might be 'two games out of the 6th seed,' they're also the 7th worst team in the league. And that's with them overachieving so far, and with more talented teams (WAS, MIA, DET, CHA) stumbling badly. They're closer record-wise to being a bottom-5 team in the whole league than they are the 4th seed in the East. I have nothing against the Nets and it seems pretty obvious to me that it would take more than swapping out Tobias Harris for RHJ and Ed Davis to get them from where they're at now to being better than one or two of TOR-BOS-PHL-MIL-IND.