Eurobasket 2022 Finals : SPAIN are European champions!!!

[lambchop]

It's quite surreal that Real and Barcelona put up with a 20/30 million deficit a year. I have no clue what happens with teams from Russia, Turkey, Greece, etc... but surely... they operate at a big loss.

.

I'm not sure about Greece, but teams from Russia and Turkey are probably used for money laundering the same way Serbian teams are. So I doubt teams care about these supposed losses on paper.
Just like when Pekovic left the T-Wolves to become a drug lord and president of Partizan Belgrade in Serbia.

But the most interesting part came after Pekovic NBA’s career – a second career in drug lording.

A couple months after his NBA exit, Belgrade police found drugs and guns in an Audi with American plates that was registered to Pekovic, who was Partizan Belgrade’s president at the time.

While Pekovic wasn’t in the car, Radojko Tomasevic and Ivan Golocevaa, who are closely linked to Darko and Dusko Saric, were. The Saric brothers reportedly are two of the biggest drug traffickers in the entire world, who allegedly smuggled tons of cocaine from South America to Europe.

When asked in the aftermath of the incident, Pekovic never denied being friends with Dusko Saric, even revealing that he’s the godfather of his child.

You may remember that Pekovic’s nickname in the NBA was ‘Godfather’, it turns out that he actually became one. He apparently owns a hotel, and a nightclub, that also are linked to Saric, who currently serves a prison sentence

https://www.opencourt-basketball.com/after-his-nba-career-nikola-pekovic-has-apparently-found-success-as-a-mobster-and-drug-lord/

[Nuntius]

I had a busy weekend so I wasn't able to watch or comment much about the Semis and the Final. Congrats to Spain, though. Most people (including me) had written them out of this tournament. Personally, I thought that they looked kinda weak in August and then they lost to Belgium in the group phase so I wrote them out completely. And they definitely proved me wrong. They deserve a ton of credit for this title and for winning as the underdogs.

[Nuntius]

Important point made.

While I we may read a few niche opinions about FIBA>NBA (aesthetically) and that's fine, since it's just about "taste" and subjectivity, it's still very outlandish.

If FIBA style basketball was indeed better on the eye or a better brand of the sport, it would draw more viewers. It appears that basketball in Europe makes huge losses (Real, Barcelona lose tens of millions of euros) and I see that clubs in Greece, Turkey, Russia... likely are just banked by the owners.

That highly suggests that there isn't a market there for it (paying fans, tv money)... there isn't an audience to match the spending of the big clubs.

As you said, it's about personal preference. It's 100% subjective. Therefore, I don't think that it's something that can really be judged. People like what they like for whatever reasons they like it.

I guess you can even point out this whole "let's give citizenship to foreign guy to play for our team"... which points to countries not having enough talent (people playing) to draw from.

The reason why some countries do not have enough talent to draw from isn't necessarily because people don't play the sport in that country. It can just as easily be that the country itself is too small. Slovenia's population barely exceeds 2 million, for example, while North Macedonia's (mentioned here because Bo McCalebb's naturalization and consequent success definitely helped popularize the concept even more) population is actually below 2 million.

When your population is so small then, yes, your talent pool is going to be significantly restricted, regardless of how popular the sport is in the country.

Now, granted, there are definitely countries that have a limited talent pool to choose from because basketball just isn't very popular there. But there are also those that love the sport but have a restricted talent pool (either due to the size of the country or for some other reason) which forces them to seek out naturalized players to fill these gaps.

Imagine you had someone who never watched basketball and landed here from Mars. You showed them Euroleague basketball. And NBA basketball. More likely than not... they'd prefer the latter. The reasons are obvious... athleticism and skill. It doesn't even feel like the same sport at times.

I mean, you can't really say that. Since the person in your example is an alien being who landed here from Mars, we really have no idea to know what their criteria are going to be. Heck, we don't even know if they process sensory information the same way we do.

If you were talking about a human being then, sure, you could make this claim but I don't think that you can (or need) to use an alien being for this hypothetical

I think some may just get caught up in the moment as they're watching an international tournament, where it's tense and it's one and done... and then they draw comparisons to NBA where we have 82 games in a regular season and then 7 game series. I guess to sum up my point... if anyone genuinely thinks FIBA>NBA, they probably should be aware of how much of a niche opinion that is.

Sure. Same thing happens with March Madness.

I say to those who love FIBA: Just enjoy it. You don't have to compare the two brands of the sport and provoke reactions and leave folks like me dumbfounded.

Here's the thing, though. The vast majority of the posts you're talking about do not come from international fans. These posts usually come from American fans who are disappointed by the NBA for a number of different reasons. And, heck, some times these reasons don't even have to do with basketball itself. Most of the time these posts aren't about people actually preferring FIBA basketball over NBA basketball, it's about preferring a single rule or two. Or, sometimes, they're just meant to piss at the NBA because they're mad at the league for whatever reason (it can even be a political reason, depending on what's trending in the media).

In short, most of these comments have absolutely nothing to do with the majority of the posters in this thread. They're made from a different subset of posters for wildly varying reasons. We have nothing to do with them

[Taikuri]

I believe this is somewhat false. He might not have lived in France (this I do not know for sure), but he has, at least to my knowledge, actual ties to France, has close family living there etc. Definitely not the same case as for example Lorenzo Brown. To my understanding France has no history of signing foreigner mercenaries, as they have such great talent pool themselves. I for one do not classify Embiid as a merc. Dude will fit flawlessy with the French team (language-, culture- and basketball skillset-wise) and will lift them to be one of the bigger favorites for the '23 World Cup and the '24 Olympics.

So with that same logic of your's any Canadian who speaks French and whose grand dad lives in France, but that grand dad doesn't have French nationality. Now his Canadian grand son can play for France, because the grand son speaks French? Now he fits team France flawlessly? Tell me the difference with this and your theory on the connection Embiid has with France.

Here you are assuming that none of Embiid's close relatives who are living in France do not have French citizenship. This I do not know, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did have French citizenship. I'm not saying that all of this Embiid naturalization stuff comes without any issues, but I have seen worst.

Considering how damn good player Embiid is, this will do a lot of damage to international basketball. I wish Embiid had played for USA instead, because he would've been chosen for team USA as well and USA most likely beats any country anyways. The idea here must be for France to challenge USA, but the damage France will do to other countries with Embiid is not great thing for basketball. Now we might have two unbeatable teams with USA & France. Maybe Serbia with all it's NBA players belongs to that group as well.

[Taikuri]

I am a bit embarrassed about Lorenzo Brown playing for us, but it doesn't make it less amazing. Scariolo is such a great coach, I'm happy especially for him and Rudy, what a career.

What would have happened in the Finland vs Spain game if Lorenzo Brown played for Finland? I think that Finland would win that game. TBH in that case it would have been Lithuania vs Finland game in the quarterfinals when the real MVP of Spain wouldn't have played for Spain in the opening round of the playoffs.

What would have happened if Riky didnt got injured? (starting PG)
What would have happened if Llull didnt got injured? (bench PG)
What would have happened if Sergio Rodriguez would have played this summer? (he left national team to rest)
What would have happened if Russia didnt got Holden in the 2007 Final against Spain?
What would have happened if Díaz was the starting PG all the tournament and played his defense 30 minutes per game?
What woul have happened if another point guard had been selected in Brown's place and he goes nuclear in the Eurobasket last week?
What would have happened if Pau Gasol had still 20 year? If Doncic was born in a travel their parents made to Finland?

There is no point in "what if".
The fact is that FIBA, not Spain, made that rule (1 naturalized player for squad allowed).
The fact is that Spain, with all their problems at the point guard, did the best with the rules they were given. And dind't search for an NBA All-star player, or even an Euroleague star player... he went for average Euroleague player that just fits well in the system they want to run and who works hard and does not complain or plays selfish.
The fact is that Brown is legally, for working, residence, rights... by law Spanish citizen.
The fact is that Russia defeat Spain in 2007 and they have that Gold medal. It's on the books.
And the fact is that Spain, against all odds, and having far less talent than 8-9 teams... has won the Tournament, brightly and fairly. With 12 rol-players, 1 of wich did'nt born in Spain. Not 1 single of the spanish starters was in the top-6 of the position before the tournament. Even in the games against tier-3 teams like Finland or Turkey, the better player wasn't in the spanish team.

Team won, strategy won. And, yes, good job at Federation office made his part too. All that playing by the rules that OTHERS, NOT SPAIN, set.

Do you really want to compare Spain's morals to a country like Russia? We know Russia's morals when it comes to sports. Goverment lead doping programs and so on. You want to compare Spain to one of the worst countries in the world moral wise? I consider Spain better than that. Countries like Russia and China will do anything to get good sport results. They will put kids in figure skating and so on, because they are lighter and more flexible. They train them like building machines in the factory. Many of those kids who will not end up being the best of those kids lives will be sort of ruined. I'm not even going to start mentioning how Russia combines their war stuff with sports. I'll just say that they like to do attacks on another country right after Olympics have ended, so that their own athletes won't get banned from the competitions. Last time it happened right after Winter Olympics ended, on the next week after the Olympics. This was not a coincidence because this has happened multiple times now, like a pattern.

Like it was already said in this thread, Italy and Finland didn't go replacing their important players that they missed in the way that Spain did. I'm sure that there are more countries with missing players and these were just examples. Serbia could've naturalized some player as well. Maybe they wouldn't have gone out at the first playoff round then? I feel like Lorenzo Brown was the difference maker in the Spain-Lithuania game.

It's allowed in the rules to naturalize a player and each country may use this rule in the way they want. Some countries like Spain, Croatia, Poland and Slovenia don't seem to care about what's morally right and that's what bothers me. Now we are supposed to respect team Spain for it's gold, when a full American player carried the team to where they are. In my opinion Lorenzo Brown was the entire tournament's MVP. FIBA just didn't want to give the trophy to a full American player. Yes Spain had some other good players too in this team, but Spain wouldn't be where they are without Lorenzo Brown carrying Spain in some games.

By the way what do you say next year when you have some of these players in the World Cup team, assuming that Spain gets in t he World Cup (Lorenzo Brown will help Spain to World Cup as well through qualifiers, that's another reason why Spanish federation hired him now). Rubio, Lull, Rodriguez and Lorenzo Brown. I am almost sure that Spain will not leave Lorenzo Brown out of that team, because Lorenzo Brown is now a national hero of Spain. Then you can't say that injuries of other players was the reason that Lorenzo Brown played in that team. I got no problem with Mirotic or Ibaka playing for Spain as they had a connection to Spain before they got naturalized, but I feel like Spain will choose Lorenzo Brown over them for the World Cup.

[Taikuri]

Lets Play the Asterix Game

1992 * ( patrick ewing Kingston JAMAICA )
1994* (Nique Wilkins Paris FRANCE)
1996* ( Hakeem Olajuwon Lagos NIGERIA )
2008* (Carlos Boozer Aschaffenburg, GERMANY)
2016* (K Irving Melbourne AUSTRALIA)

Spain won.
The best TEAM won.

Some of those players surely got more connections to their countries compared to Lorenzo Brown being a Spaniard. Even the name of Hakeen Olajuwon is a connection. It sounds Nigerian. You can tell that he has some kind of ties to that country. Brazdeikis has Lithuanian parents and Lithuanian name. Jamar Wilson has a Finnish wife, he played basketball in Finland before naturalization and he actually can speak some Finnish language. Lorenzo Brown however is a completely different case. You can't compare Lorenzo Brown to players that were previously mentioned.

[Taikuri]

Let’s make it easier.

Everybody knew about Lorenzo playing with Spain NT over 2 months ago. And assuming that, none considered the Spaniards as real contenders.

It was 8-9 in the power rankings!

Why lorenzo makes NOW the difference and not before ? It is Lorenzo making Spain special or Spain making Lorenzo Special…??

Spain have played and incredible team basketball on both sides , sharing minutes , changing systems, assisting , getting turnovers, finding free shooters .

It has been a total masterclass of what basketball really is

You wouldn't be saying this if Spain went out by Lithuania in the first playoff round. Maybe then you could be saying "fire Scariolo" instead. Guess who was the best player of the Lithuania game? It was Lorenzo Brown. G-League MVP or not, he had carried Spain through several games in these playoffs. It's maybe not time to be a cocky Spanish basketball fan now. You should keep low profile instead, because your win came with a huge asterisk on it.

[LuDux1]

Let’s make it easier.

Everybody knew about Lorenzo playing with Spain NT over 2 months ago. And assuming that, none considered the Spaniards as real contenders.

It was 8-9 in the power rankings!

Why lorenzo makes NOW the difference and not before ? It is Lorenzo making Spain special or Spain making Lorenzo Special…??

Spain have played and incredible team basketball on both sides , sharing minutes , changing systems, assisting , getting turnovers, finding free shooters .

It has been a total masterclass of what basketball really is

You wouldn't be saying this if Spain went out by Lithuania in the first playoff round. Maybe then you could be saying "fire Scariolo" instead. Guess who was the best player of the Lithuania game? It was Lorenzo Brown. G-League MVP or not, he had carried Spain through several games in these playoffs. It's maybe not time to be a cocky Spanish basketball fan now. You should keep low profile instead, because your win came with a huge asterisk on it.

Huge? I've seen bigger http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/1071059.stm

[lambchop]

Important point made.

While I we may read a few niche opinions about FIBA>NBA (aesthetically) and that's fine, since it's just about "taste" and subjectivity, it's still very outlandish.

If FIBA style basketball was indeed better on the eye or a better brand of the sport, it would draw more viewers. It appears that basketball in Europe makes huge losses (Real, Barcelona lose tens of millions of euros) and I see that clubs in Greece, Turkey, Russia... likely are just banked by the owners.

That highly suggests that there isn't a market there for it (paying fans, tv money)... there isn't an audience to match the spending of the big clubs.

As you said, it's about personal preference. It's 100% subjective. Therefore, I don't think that it's something that can really be judged. People like what they like for whatever reasons they like it.

I say to those who love FIBA: Just enjoy it. You don't have to compare the two brands of the sport and provoke reactions and leave folks like me dumbfounded.

[/quote]

Yep, it definitely is preference. Auto-Tune is more popular than ever in music and can be heard in songs from all around the world - American, Latino, Italian, German etc. songs all use it. Some people would describe it as peak musical degeneracy. I personally love it, but just because it's extremely popular doesn't mean that it's better than other music. At the end of the day, sports and music are essentially entertainment, especially if you're considering viewership and the money they generate. Entertainment will always be a matter of taste and preference.

And, yea, I 100% agree that FIBA and NBA shouldn't really be compared. That's also why performance doesn't always translate from one to another. Lorenzo Brown (an NBA scrub) looks more comfortable and efficient in FIBA basketball than Allen Iverson who is considered one of the 75 best NBA players of all time.

[BUANIX]

Let’s make it easier.

Everybody knew about Lorenzo playing with Spain NT over 2 months ago. And assuming that, none considered the Spaniards as real contenders.

It was 8-9 in the power rankings!

Why lorenzo makes NOW the difference and not before ? It is Lorenzo making Spain special or Spain making Lorenzo Special…??

Spain have played and incredible team basketball on both sides , sharing minutes , changing systems, assisting , getting turnovers, finding free shooters .

It has been a total masterclass of what basketball really is

You wouldn't be saying this if Spain went out by Lithuania in the first playoff round. Maybe then you could be saying "fire Scariolo" instead. Guess who was the best player of the Lithuania game? It was Lorenzo Brown. G-League MVP or not, he had carried Spain through several games in these playoffs. It's maybe not time to be a cocky Spanish basketball fan now. You should keep low profile instead, because your win came with a huge asterisk on it.

I totally disagree . I feel proud of the team and coach . They played great basketball being clearly an underdog in the tournament . They keep that winning soul which has been with us during the last two decades .

Low profile ? Not at all


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[Mirotic12]

https://www.fiba.basketball/rankingmen

USA is now just 1.8 points ahead of Spain in the world rankings.