Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together?

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Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together? 

Post#1 » by Gil » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:49 am

There's been narrative ever since the trade was made of them being a bad fit because they're both ball-dominant but Harden seems to be looking forward to playing off the ball more.

"The last 13 years, he's had to dominate the ball so much because he didn't have somebody to help create plays for him," Harden said. "I know how I felt the last five years the same way, having to dominate the ball. It feels good to get a catch-and-shoot opportunity or to just run the floor and not have to worry about having to make a play every possession.

"It's going to be fun. There's no point guard, no shooting guard. We just go out there and make plays and make our team better."


He cares enough that he personally lobbied for Morey to sign point guard Ty Lawson in the offseason, and although he recognizes that means less ball-dominant play for himself, a man with the eighth-highest usage rate in the NBA last season, he recognizes this not as a threat to his stardom, but as a way to enhance it.

"I'm looking forward to playing off the ball," Harden says, also telling Torre his goal this season is to improve his efficiency and join just the six other players in NBA history in the 50-40-90 club.

It isn't the first time he's repeated those comments as well.

http://www.red94.net/harden-im-looking-forward-to-playing-off-the-ball/16028/#



Chris Paul essentially echoed the same thoughts in this interview as well so why does everyone seem to think they won't work together despite being elite shooters in catch & shoot situations.

Seems to me like they're ball-dominant players out of necessity not because they're selfish players. I'm sure every NBA star would love to play in a Warriors style offense where you get easy layups & open shots because you're surrounded by so much talent & shooters.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#2 » by Onus » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:55 am

I think they're going to have an awesome offense together. Cp will have to adjust mostly due to the pace and being a control freak but they're going to be really good together.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#3 » by Moochthemonkey » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:55 am

They'll be fine. Both are high IQ players and MDA is an offensive mastermind.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#4 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:00 am

I think they could be, but I also think it won't work as well as people might think. You KNOW they both want the ball in their hands and making all the decisions all the time. Paul SHOULD win out if there is a choice, but Harden is the incumbent. I can also see it working out badly. And honestly, if they get Melo, I think it makes it worse...with either of these guys you want catch and shoot guys around them, but with BOTH?...to add iso Melo? It makes zero sense to me...I think Anderson just fits better.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#5 » by righterwriter » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:03 am

They will be devastating, but not in the way that you mean it.

Has there ever been a time in NBA history where such ball dominant guards suddenly changed their game to defer to another player?
If one of them had an attitude like Durant where he literally just didn't care about having the ball in his hands and only wanted to win, and there was a team chemistry/leadership which could straighten one guy out when he started falling into old habits, then I'd give it a better chance of succeeding. But I just don't see it with these two guys and in Houston.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#6 » by raptor jesus » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:04 am

Yes I think they'll be fantastic together, especially w/ D'antoni as an architect. Two prolific pick and roll playmakers w/ shooting and lob targets around them is going to be a nightmare for opposing defences.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#7 » by BloodNinja » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:11 am

They should be devastating but at the same time if it doesn't work out as expected it wouldn't surprise either.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#8 » by Spens1 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:15 am

there will be no middle ground, it will either click and be devastating or be really bad for everyone involved and be a disaster that will set back the rockets many years.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#9 » by 1UPZ » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:16 am

The main benefit is when they stagger minutes. 48 minutes of Harden or Paul or both.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#10 » by Domejandro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:17 am

bwgood77 wrote:I think they could be, but I also think it won't work as well as people might think. You KNOW they both want the ball in their hands and making all the decisions all the time. Paul SHOULD win out if there is a choice, but Harden is the incumbent. I can also see it working out badly. And honestly, if they get Melo, I think it makes it worse...with either of these guys you want catch and shoot guys around them, but with BOTH?...to add iso Melo? It makes zero sense to me...I think Anderson just fits better.

Carmelo is a devastating catch-and-shoot player, the stigma that he is just an isolation player just isn't accurate given his skill-sets.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#11 » by Phreak50 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:17 am

Less wins than last year and trouble making it work is my prediction.

And if they don't add Melo it may well be a failed experiment.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#12 » by Goner » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:19 am

Yes, and D'Antoni is the perfect architect to bring together ball dominant egos. Pfffffft.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#13 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:24 am

Domejandro wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I think they could be, but I also think it won't work as well as people might think. You KNOW they both want the ball in their hands and making all the decisions all the time. Paul SHOULD win out if there is a choice, but Harden is the incumbent. I can also see it working out badly. And honestly, if they get Melo, I think it makes it worse...with either of these guys you want catch and shoot guys around them, but with BOTH?...to add iso Melo? It makes zero sense to me...I think Anderson just fits better.

Carmelo is a devastating catch-and-shoot player, the stigma that he is just an isolation player just isn't accurate given his skill-sets.


I think he can be one, but is that his tendency? Or would he rather dribble for a bit? I didn't get the sense D'Antoni was a big fan of his play, though I may be wrong, but it seems like D'Antoni would rather have a guy like Anderson at the 4 who shot at a higher % from deep (I'll admit I haven't checked the #s so just guessing on that one).
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#14 » by AdagioPace » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:30 am

Im sure the flopping is going to be of mastodontic proportions. The rest is unknown
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#15 » by JGOJustin » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:34 am

Too many times IMO people overthink things. Two players as great as Harden and Paul are, will figure it out. They'll make it worth. Both have the skillsets to be fluid in that regard. Will that result in a deep playoff run is another story though.

What I'm curious about, is that IF it ends up working out just "okay" or IF it indeed doesn't work out as well as they thought it would and it's a 1st or 2nd round exit, what does Houston do with Paul? I'm assuming they have a max deal lined up with Paul, but would they go through with it?
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#16 » by Rednation91 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:47 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Domejandro wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I think they could be, but I also think it won't work as well as people might think. You KNOW they both want the ball in their hands and making all the decisions all the time. Paul SHOULD win out if there is a choice, but Harden is the incumbent. I can also see it working out badly. And honestly, if they get Melo, I think it makes it worse...with either of these guys you want catch and shoot guys around them, but with BOTH?...to add iso Melo? It makes zero sense to me...I think Anderson just fits better.

Carmelo is a devastating catch-and-shoot player, the stigma that he is just an isolation player just isn't accurate given his skill-sets.


I think he can be one, but is that his tendency? Or would he rather dribble for a bit? I didn't get the sense D'Antoni was a big fan of his play, though I may be wrong, but it seems like D'Antoni would rather have a guy like Anderson at the 4 who shot at a higher % from deep (I'll admit I haven't checked the #s so just guessing on that one).

Anderson is a better shooter and has unlimited range but thats all he brings. With melo, the rockets will be much harder to defend. He is much more versatile than ryno. Many times last yr(especially later on) harden would whip a pass to ryno for a 3, ryno would hesitate and either pass back to harden(forcing harden to create AGAIN) or try to score himself (which usually ended up with him spinning into a dirk fadeaway). Melo can shoot, create, drive. Another negative for ryno is that he shoots ALOT WORSE at home than on the road. IMO melo would help diversify the offense immensely
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#17 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:56 am

JGOJustin wrote:Too many times IMO people overthink things. Two players as great as Harden and Paul are, will figure it out. They'll make it worth. Both have the skillsets to be fluid in that regard. Will that result in a deep playoff run is another story though.

What I'm curious about, is that IF it ends up working out just "okay" or IF it indeed doesn't work out as well as they thought it would and it's a 1st or 2nd round exit, what does Houston do with Paul? I'm assuming they have a max deal lined up with Paul, but would they go through with it?


The thing is, when you have two ball dominant people, it's tougher. When Nash joined Kobe Nash basically became a spot up shooter (which actually was fine because he is a great shooter) but he didn't have the opportunity to run things himself...the was with D'Antoni too...I mean we are talking the same coach where they acquired Nash and Howard to join Gasol and Kobe. It didn't work very well.

I think they are set up fairly well though but I don't think it will be as easy as you think...it will be interesting to see who bring the ball up the court and directs the offense..they have to share it, but I honestly can't see either wanting to, especially Paul. I'm guessing Harden had to tell him it's his deal and will have the ball in his hands otherwise I can't imagine Paul wanting that unless he just wanted out of LA so bad he would be happy playing off ball.
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#18 » by JGOJustin » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:00 am

bwgood77 wrote:
JGOJustin wrote:Too many times IMO people overthink things. Two players as great as Harden and Paul are, will figure it out. They'll make it worth. Both have the skillsets to be fluid in that regard. Will that result in a deep playoff run is another story though.

What I'm curious about, is that IF it ends up working out just "okay" or IF it indeed doesn't work out as well as they thought it would and it's a 1st or 2nd round exit, what does Houston do with Paul? I'm assuming they have a max deal lined up with Paul, but would they go through with it?


The thing is, when you have two ball dominant people, it's tougher. When Nash joined Kobe Nash basically became a spot up shooter (which actually was fine because he is a great shooter) but he didn't have the opportunity to run things himself...the was with D'Antoni too...I mean we are talking the same coach where they acquired Nash and Howard to join Gasol and Kobe. It didn't work very well.

I think they are set up fairly well though but I don't think it will be as easy as you think...it will be interesting to see who bring the ball up the court and directs the offense..they have to share it, but I honestly can't see either wanting to, especially Paul. I'm guessing Harden had to tell him it's his deal and will have the ball in his hands otherwise I can't imagine Paul wanting that unless he just wanted out of LA so bad he would be happy playing off ball.


I am not saying that it'll be easy as much as I'm saying that it'll get done, and the Rockets will be really good health provided. The ceiling of a team with both Chris and James is just way too high to even seriously consider the "fit" of the two. It'll probably take time, but I think they'll end up being a really good team, and a really tough out in the western conference.

And if the pairing doesn't work, it still was a gamble that you had to take.

Also too, if I recall when Nash/Howard/Bryant/Gasol were all healthy on the floor, they won a lot of games even with Nash being old as hell. They were pretty good. Ultimately too much HoF talent for ME isn't a real concern. First world problem.s
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#19 » by ckman » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:18 am

Harden's act on the court don't back up his word. Look at his games from last few years, he always disinterested and just stood there when playing off the ball.
Paul never played off the ball as well. They need the ball in their hands to get into rhythm. It's going to cause problem for them.
Both are talented players that they might still figure it out, but it's gonna take more than a season for them to adapt to each other imo
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Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#20 » by Young_Star11 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:21 am

They've both been saying the right things so far.

Great players would make it work.

CP3 almost beat the Jazz (a very respectable 51-win team) by himself.

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