Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?

Raps in 4 · Post #21 » by **Raps in 4** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:47 pm

I don't think most people think that. I'd take Jokic over Embiid, but the gap isn't very wide.

Freighttrain · Post #22 » by **Freighttrain** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:47 pm

Nuggets fans forcing Jokic threads down our throats is getting annoying. They're both great players. Both have the potential to be all-timers but have different skillsets. Jokic is an offensive system in itself and Embiid can dominate both ends of the floor. They both haven't won anything yet so their postseason will define more about them than any lousy comparison we try to make now.

_qubik · Post #23 » by **_qubik** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:48 pm

I think Jokic is better, more durable and even more enjoyable to watch, given all that, and if its a team that will be a real contender, with other stars, I would pick Embiid without much thinking, he is a good scorer too, and a hell of a defender. If I have other guys to carry the offensive load, I'm going for the defensive ace without a lot of thought.

Being homer and even more controversial, I would say its easier to win a title with either of Embiid and Bam than Jokic.

He is very good, but the way he plays makes us think he is even more incredible. He does things no other center does, its doesnt mean he will impact winning more than they

Jadoogar · Post #24 » by **Jadoogar** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:50 pm

PZiv wrote:Denver vs Philadelphia
marketable
But I got to mention that this topic has beaten time and time again, its annoying honestly to see this at daily level.

also defense?

canada_dry · Post #25 » by **canada_dry** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:52 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:imagine calling people casuals and using skip bayless as your justification.

Lol

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Jadoogar · Post #26 » by **Jadoogar** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:52 pm

normally i don't care as much about defense because i feel offense is just more important in basketball. The only place that's not true is the center position. Jokic is an otherworldly offensive player but the gap between him and Embiid on offense is not nearly as big as the gap between them on defense.

r0drig0lac · Post #27 » by **r0drig0lac** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:55 pm

lol "casuals", ok expert

elchengue20 wrote:Because he plays something called defense.

/thread

BoatsNZones · Post #28 » by **BoatsNZones** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:57 pm

elchengue20 wrote:Because he plays something called defense.

Speaking of the casual take.

whatle02 · Post #29 » by **whatle02** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:57 pm

Because he's black.

that's it. They don't want to give the MVP to a white center.
Its the same reason Jazz arent getting any love whatsoever: Utah has had some racial issues at nba games
It's the same reason they randomly compare Luka to Bird. Because they are white. When, in reality, Luka's numbers are eerily similar to LEbrons career numbers.

At least this is just my opinion based on the commentary by those with votes like Broussard.

youngthegiant · Post #30 » by **youngthegiant** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:59 pm

r0drig0lac wrote:lol "casuals", ok expert

elchengue20 wrote:Because he plays something called defense.

/thread

That's the most casual argument you can make..only proving my point.

ForeverTFC · Post #31 » by **ForeverTFC** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:04 pm

They're the best 2 centers in the league and both are top 10 players in the league. You make it sound like it's not even close when most would concede that it's a very close contest and see the argument both ways.

Personally, all else equal (e.g. injury concerns) I would pick Embiid over Jokic. It's hard to find a 2 way C that can anchor the defense and I think it would be easier to build a winner around Embiid than Jokic if starting from scratch.

TTP · Post #32 » by **TTP** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:04 pm

Alatan wrote:Embiid is a great player but even when healthy i dont trust his offensive game to translate to the playoffs.
He is is skilled but is also getting babied by the refs and gets an easy whistle on contact he initiates. Once the playoffs start and refs swallow their whistles his efficiency will take a big dip.

His defense is good but is also being bolstered by playing on a really good defensive team.
Would he be great at defense on a bad defensive team where he also has to carry a big offensive load? I doubt it, especially considering his durability issues.

Give me Jokic any time.

We have plenty of evidence of Embiid dominating in the playoffs though, and that was before he took a huge step forward offensively with his mid-range game and passing this year.

His free throw rate in the playoffs to date (.566) is actually higher than his regular season free throw rate (.537).

Embiid has played 757 career playoff minutes. The Sixers are +7.0 in those minutes. They are an absurd +14.2 better while Embiid is on the floor.

Just as a comparison, LeBron is widely considered to be one of the greatest of our era at elevating his game for the playoffs. His teams are only +6.3 in the playoffs and +10.5 better when he's on the floor.

People that think Embiid's game won't translate to the playoffs are just not paying attention. It already has. Now he might finally have the team that doesn't let him down.

eyeatoma · Post #33 » by **eyeatoma** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:04 pm

youngthegiant wrote:Media and casuals almost always say winning/playoff performance is the end all be all for deciding which players are the best.
Well Jokic's playoff resume is head and shoulders above what Embiid has done. It makes zero sense...Jokic's playoff numbers are better...he's gone farther in the post season...like why...why is this even a debate. Jokic is clearly the best Center in the world and it's driving me insane that so many people still believe Embiid is better. Skip Bayless can't even remember his name Why can't Jokic get a fair shake..

Career Playoff stats

Joel Embiid: 22.3 PPG, 11.5 RPG, 2.9 APG, 3.7 TO 43 FG%, 28 3P%

Nikola Jokic: 24.7 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 6.9 APG, 3.0 TO 51 FG%, 41 3P%

My god Nuggets fans are so insecure.

r0drig0lac · Post #34 » by **r0drig0lac** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:09 pm

youngthegiant wrote:
r0drig0lac wrote:lol "casuals", ok expert

elchengue20 wrote:Because he plays something called defense.

/thread

That's the most casual argument you can make..only proving my point.

ok nuggets fan

levon · Post #35 » by **levon** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:10 pm

LloydFree wrote:Because there are two sides of the court and Defense is nearly as important as Offense at the Center position.

It's far more important.

DaddyCool19 · Post #36 » by **DaddyCool19** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:11 pm

Wow Jokics rim protection stat is really bad. I filtered minimum 5 defended FGA at < 6ft and only Bryant, Kanter, Covington and surprisingly A. Davis are worse than him. I thought he would be slightly below average, but not this bad.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-lt6/?CF=FGA_LT_06*GE*5&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=LT_06_PCT&dir=1

Post #37 » by **Harry Garris** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:15 pm

birdlives_ma wrote:Well if we're talking about winning, either have won anything of note, so that's kind of a moot point.

For me though, it's pretty simple: Jokic is an elite offensive player, and a below-average defender. Embiid is a really good offensive player, and an elite defender. Center is the only position where both things probably matter equally. Therefore, gimme Embiid.

I've always thought that Embiid has a slight edge as a player over Jokic. However, given that Jokic never gets hurt and Embiid is just by default going to miss 20-30% of each season, I'll take Jokic. His overall production is better than Embiid by virtue of being more available.

Bornstellar · Post #38 » by **Bornstellar** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:15 pm

Referencing playoff stats when neither guy has done jack **** in the playoffs is pretty funny :lol:

That being said, probably because Embiid has been an absolute monster this season. And I don't think "most people" feel that way. I've been seeing a lot of "why doesn't Jokic get respect!!" threads all season long when he's been the #1 MVP candidate the majority of the year. I think THIS YEAR there is a legit argument over who is better/having a better season. I also think it's a wash overall since neither guy has really done anything or won any personal accolades. I think there are people who think Joel has been better this season, which is completely arguable. But I don't see most people claiming Joel has been better throughout their careers

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31250764/nba-mvp-media-straw-poll-anyone-catch-denver-nuggets-star-nikola-jokic

^That is from 4 days ago Jokic is dominating the poll. I really don't understand Nuggets fans imagined disrespect toward Jokic, who will likely be the MVP and 1st team this year. You want respect? Win a ring. Giannis had two of the most impressive MVP seasons back to back and everyone craps on him because he lost in the playoffs. This is no different

(Plus, one is an elite defensive player and the other is not)

Alatan · Post #39 » by **Alatan** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:16 pm

TTP wrote:
Alatan wrote:Embiid is a great player but even when healthy i dont trust his offensive game to translate to the playoffs.
He is is skilled but is also getting babied by the refs and gets an easy whistle on contact he initiates. Once the playoffs start and refs swallow their whistles his efficiency will take a big dip.

His defense is good but is also being bolstered by playing on a really good defensive team.
Would he be great at defense on a bad defensive team where he also has to carry a big offensive load? I doubt it, especially considering his durability issues.

Give me Jokic any time.

We have plenty of evidence of Embiid dominating in the playoffs though, and that was before he took a huge step forward offensively with his mid-range game and passing this year.

His free throw rate in the playoffs to date (.566) is actually higher than his regular season free throw rate (.537).

Embiid has played 757 career playoff minutes. The Sixers are +7.0 in those minutes. They are an absurd +14.2 better while Embiid is on the floor.

Just as a comparison, LeBron is widely considered to be one of the greatest of our era at elevating his game for the playoffs. His teams are only +6.3 in the playoffs and +10.5 better when he's on the floor.

People that thinks Embiid's game won't translate to the playoffs are just not paying attention. It already has. Now he might finally have the team that doesn't let him down.

Are you pulling these numbers out of the 4 game playoff series against Boston or his career averages? I assume its the former.

Hussien Fatal · Post #40 » by **Hussien Fatal** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:16 pm

Joel is an absolutely ELITE two way player. May even be the best two way player in the league. He is just more dominant on offense as well, he gets to the line twice as much as Jokic which is invaluable to a teams success. Joel also affects winning more as well. See both player win % this year, Jokic is at 64% and Joel is at a ridiculous 80% win%. Joel is a much better scorer than Jokic, Joel scores a ridiculous 33ppg per 36 mins Jokic is at 26ppg per 36mins. Joel has the higher career PER as well and he has a higher PER this season as well. Jokic is just Elite on one side of the ball. Joel is elite on both sides.