Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
Moderators: KingDavid, bwgood77, zimpy27, cupcakesnake, Domejandro, infinite11285, Harry Garris, ken6199, Dirk, bisme37
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
- Raps in 4
- RealGM
- Posts: 62,066
- And1: 54,747
- Joined: Nov 01, 2008
- Location: Toronto
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
I don't think most people think that. I'd take Jokic over Embiid, but the gap isn't very wide.
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
-
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,660
- And1: 7,080
- Joined: Aug 08, 2014
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
Nuggets fans forcing Jokic threads down our throats is getting annoying. They're both great players. Both have the potential to be all-timers but have different skillsets. Jokic is an offensive system in itself and Embiid can dominate both ends of the floor. They both haven't won anything yet so their postseason will define more about them than any lousy comparison we try to make now.
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
- _qubik
- Starter
- Posts: 2,399
- And1: 1,337
- Joined: Sep 21, 2020
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
I think Jokic is better, more durable and even more enjoyable to watch, given all that, and if its a team that will be a real contender, with other stars, I would pick Embiid without much thinking, he is a good scorer too, and a hell of a defender. If I have other guys to carry the offensive load, I'm going for the defensive ace without a lot of thought.
Being homer and even more controversial, I would say its easier to win a title with either of Embiid and Bam than Jokic.
He is very good, but the way he plays makes us think he is even more incredible. He does things no other center does, its doesnt mean he will impact winning more than they
Being homer and even more controversial, I would say its easier to win a title with either of Embiid and Bam than Jokic.
He is very good, but the way he plays makes us think he is even more incredible. He does things no other center does, its doesnt mean he will impact winning more than they
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 15,609
- And1: 14,873
- Joined: May 06, 2010
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
PZiv wrote:Denver vs Philadelphia
marketable
But I got to mention that this topic has beaten time and time again, its annoying honestly to see this at daily level.
also defense?
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,874
- And1: 5,369
- Joined: Aug 22, 2017
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
LolLockdown504090 wrote:imagine calling people casuals and using skip bayless as your justification.
Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 15,609
- And1: 14,873
- Joined: May 06, 2010
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
normally i don't care as much about defense because i feel offense is just more important in basketball. The only place that's not true is the center position. Jokic is an otherworldly offensive player but the gap between him and Embiid on offense is not nearly as big as the gap between them on defense.
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,693
- And1: 5,343
- Joined: Dec 24, 2015
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
lol "casuals", ok expert
/thread
elchengue20 wrote:Because he plays something called defense.
/thread
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,966
- And1: 5,291
- Joined: Sep 23, 2020
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
elchengue20 wrote:Because he plays something called defense.
Speaking of the casual take.
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
-
- Ballboy
- Posts: 2
- And1: 3
- Joined: Jul 25, 2016
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
Because he's black.
that's it. They don't want to give the MVP to a white center.
Its the same reason Jazz arent getting any love whatsoever: Utah has had some racial issues at nba games
It's the same reason they randomly compare Luka to Bird. Because they are white. When, in reality, Luka's numbers are eerily similar to LEbrons career numbers.
At least this is just my opinion based on the commentary by those with votes like Broussard.
that's it. They don't want to give the MVP to a white center.
Its the same reason Jazz arent getting any love whatsoever: Utah has had some racial issues at nba games
It's the same reason they randomly compare Luka to Bird. Because they are white. When, in reality, Luka's numbers are eerily similar to LEbrons career numbers.
At least this is just my opinion based on the commentary by those with votes like Broussard.
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
- youngthegiant
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,686
- And1: 5,615
- Joined: Aug 31, 2011
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
r0drig0lac wrote:lol "casuals", ok expertelchengue20 wrote:Because he plays something called defense.
/thread
That's the most casual argument you can make..only proving my point.
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
- ForeverTFC
- RealGM
- Posts: 13,695
- And1: 14,688
- Joined: Dec 07, 2004
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
They're the best 2 centers in the league and both are top 10 players in the league. You make it sound like it's not even close when most would concede that it's a very close contest and see the argument both ways.
Personally, all else equal (e.g. injury concerns) I would pick Embiid over Jokic. It's hard to find a 2 way C that can anchor the defense and I think it would be easier to build a winner around Embiid than Jokic if starting from scratch.
Personally, all else equal (e.g. injury concerns) I would pick Embiid over Jokic. It's hard to find a 2 way C that can anchor the defense and I think it would be easier to build a winner around Embiid than Jokic if starting from scratch.
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
- TTP
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,002
- And1: 4,398
- Joined: Oct 24, 2016
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
Alatan wrote:Embiid is a great player but even when healthy i dont trust his offensive game to translate to the playoffs.
He is is skilled but is also getting babied by the refs and gets an easy whistle on contact he initiates. Once the playoffs start and refs swallow their whistles his efficiency will take a big dip.
His defense is good but is also being bolstered by playing on a really good defensive team.
Would he be great at defense on a bad defensive team where he also has to carry a big offensive load? I doubt it, especially considering his durability issues.
Give me Jokic any time.
We have plenty of evidence of Embiid dominating in the playoffs though, and that was before he took a huge step forward offensively with his mid-range game and passing this year.
His free throw rate in the playoffs to date (.566) is actually higher than his regular season free throw rate (.537).
Embiid has played 757 career playoff minutes. The Sixers are +7.0 in those minutes. They are an absurd +14.2 better while Embiid is on the floor.
Just as a comparison, LeBron is widely considered to be one of the greatest of our era at elevating his game for the playoffs. His teams are only +6.3 in the playoffs and +10.5 better when he's on the floor.
People that think Embiid's game won't translate to the playoffs are just not paying attention. It already has. Now he might finally have the team that doesn't let him down.
jonjames is a signature bet welcher.
Appostis wrote:You're friend ..is a idiot.
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 27,929
- And1: 11,495
- Joined: Feb 25, 2005
- Location: An Indian in Indonesia
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
youngthegiant wrote:Media and casuals almost always say winning/playoff performance is the end all be all for deciding which players are the best.
Well Jokic's playoff resume is head and shoulders above what Embiid has done. It makes zero sense...Jokic's playoff numbers are better...he's gone farther in the post season...like why...why is this even a debate. Jokic is clearly the best Center in the world and it's driving me insane that so many people still believe Embiid is better. Skip Bayless can't even remember his name Why can't Jokic get a fair shake..
Career Playoff stats
Joel Embiid: 22.3 PPG, 11.5 RPG, 2.9 APG, 3.7 TO 43 FG%, 28 3P%
Nikola Jokic: 24.7 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 6.9 APG, 3.0 TO 51 FG%, 41 3P%
My god Nuggets fans are so insecure.
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,693
- And1: 5,343
- Joined: Dec 24, 2015
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
youngthegiant wrote:r0drig0lac wrote:lol "casuals", ok expertelchengue20 wrote:Because he plays something called defense.
/thread
That's the most casual argument you can make..only proving my point.
ok nuggets fan
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
- levon
- RealGM
- Posts: 14,935
- And1: 23,397
- Joined: Aug 04, 2017
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
LloydFree wrote:Because there are two sides of the court and Defense is nearly as important as Offense at the Center position.
It's far more important.
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
- DaddyCool19
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,138
- And1: 6,415
- Joined: Jul 28, 2013
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
Wow Jokics rim protection stat is really bad. I filtered minimum 5 defended FGA at < 6ft and only Bryant, Kanter, Covington and surprisingly A. Davis are worse than him. I thought he would be slightly below average, but not this bad.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-lt6/?CF=FGA_LT_06*GE*5&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=LT_06_PCT&dir=1
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-lt6/?CF=FGA_LT_06*GE*5&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=LT_06_PCT&dir=1
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
- Harry Garris
- Forum Mod
- Posts: 8,075
- And1: 13,696
- Joined: Jul 12, 2017
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
birdlives_ma wrote:Well if we're talking about winning, either have won anything of note, so that's kind of a moot point.
For me though, it's pretty simple: Jokic is an elite offensive player, and a below-average defender. Embiid is a really good offensive player, and an elite defender. Center is the only position where both things probably matter equally. Therefore, gimme Embiid.
I've always thought that Embiid has a slight edge as a player over Jokic. However, given that Jokic never gets hurt and Embiid is just by default going to miss 20-30% of each season, I'll take Jokic. His overall production is better than Embiid by virtue of being more available.
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
- Bornstellar
- Head Coach
- Posts: 7,446
- And1: 17,482
- Joined: Mar 05, 2018
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
Referencing playoff stats when neither guy has done jack **** in the playoffs is pretty funny
That being said, probably because Embiid has been an absolute monster this season. And I don't think "most people" feel that way. I've been seeing a lot of "why doesn't Jokic get respect!!" threads all season long when he's been the #1 MVP candidate the majority of the year. I think THIS YEAR there is a legit argument over who is better/having a better season. I also think it's a wash overall since neither guy has really done anything or won any personal accolades. I think there are people who think Joel has been better this season, which is completely arguable. But I don't see most people claiming Joel has been better throughout their careers
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31250764/nba-mvp-media-straw-poll-anyone-catch-denver-nuggets-star-nikola-jokic
^That is from 4 days ago Jokic is dominating the poll. I really don't understand Nuggets fans imagined disrespect toward Jokic, who will likely be the MVP and 1st team this year. You want respect? Win a ring. Giannis had two of the most impressive MVP seasons back to back and everyone craps on him because he lost in the playoffs. This is no different
(Plus, one is an elite defensive player and the other is not)
That being said, probably because Embiid has been an absolute monster this season. And I don't think "most people" feel that way. I've been seeing a lot of "why doesn't Jokic get respect!!" threads all season long when he's been the #1 MVP candidate the majority of the year. I think THIS YEAR there is a legit argument over who is better/having a better season. I also think it's a wash overall since neither guy has really done anything or won any personal accolades. I think there are people who think Joel has been better this season, which is completely arguable. But I don't see most people claiming Joel has been better throughout their careers
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31250764/nba-mvp-media-straw-poll-anyone-catch-denver-nuggets-star-nikola-jokic
^That is from 4 days ago Jokic is dominating the poll. I really don't understand Nuggets fans imagined disrespect toward Jokic, who will likely be the MVP and 1st team this year. You want respect? Win a ring. Giannis had two of the most impressive MVP seasons back to back and everyone craps on him because he lost in the playoffs. This is no different
(Plus, one is an elite defensive player and the other is not)
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
-
- Assistant Coach
- Posts: 4,306
- And1: 3,593
- Joined: May 06, 2017
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
TTP wrote:Alatan wrote:Embiid is a great player but even when healthy i dont trust his offensive game to translate to the playoffs.
He is is skilled but is also getting babied by the refs and gets an easy whistle on contact he initiates. Once the playoffs start and refs swallow their whistles his efficiency will take a big dip.
His defense is good but is also being bolstered by playing on a really good defensive team.
Would he be great at defense on a bad defensive team where he also has to carry a big offensive load? I doubt it, especially considering his durability issues.
Give me Jokic any time.
We have plenty of evidence of Embiid dominating in the playoffs though, and that was before he took a huge step forward offensively with his mid-range game and passing this year.
His free throw rate in the playoffs to date (.566) is actually higher than his regular season free throw rate (.537).
Embiid has played 757 career playoff minutes. The Sixers are +7.0 in those minutes. They are an absurd +14.2 better while Embiid is on the floor.
Just as a comparison, LeBron is widely considered to be one of the greatest of our era at elevating his game for the playoffs. His teams are only +6.3 in the playoffs and +10.5 better when he's on the floor.
People that thinks Embiid's game won't translate to the playoffs are just not paying attention. It already has. Now he might finally have the team that doesn't let him down.
Are you pulling these numbers out of the 4 game playoff series against Boston or his career averages? I assume its the former.
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,899
- And1: 1,401
- Joined: Jul 07, 2006
- Location: N-E-W Jers where plenty murders occur
Re: Why do most people still think Embiid is better than Jokic?
Joel is an absolutely ELITE two way player. May even be the best two way player in the league. He is just more dominant on offense as well, he gets to the line twice as much as Jokic which is invaluable to a teams success. Joel also affects winning more as well. See both player win % this year, Jokic is at 64% and Joel is at a ridiculous 80% win%. Joel is a much better scorer than Jokic, Joel scores a ridiculous 33ppg per 36 mins Jokic is at 26ppg per 36mins. Joel has the higher career PER as well and he has a higher PER this season as well. Jokic is just Elite on one side of the ball. Joel is elite on both sides.
They call me Hussien Fatal its a two game table im robbin you **** cradle wit a knife in your navel....