Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story

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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#101 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:41 pm

GoBobs wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
FreeThrowLine wrote:I loved Pippen the basketball player, but he’s shown over the years that he’s holding on to so much jealousy that he can’t move past.

He’s within his rights to give his side but there are some things which don’t require further explanation that showed how mentally weak Pippen could be in certain situations.

I’m not saying he needs to kiss the ground Jordan walks on, but there’s no doubt in my mind that Scottie starting his career anywhere else doesn’t have the success, fame or reputation that he ended up with


I strongly disagree. Sure he doesn't win 6 titles, but he'd have been the second best wing in the nba and he'd be much more respected as an offensive player and potentially defensive player had he had his own team to run.


Nah, he would have been 1b for most of the other teams in the league. People act like dude was the second best player in the Jordan era, but he wasn’t close to that. Robinson, Barkley, Shaq, Penny, Ewing, Miller, Dream, Stocton, Malone were all way way better than Pip just to name a few. Grant Hill, Glen Rice, Zo, prime Larry Johnson, there are so many guys from that era MJ could have won 6 tittles with as his number 2. Pip was like the 30-40th best player in the era he played. He proved it after the bulls broke up and he didn’t do much. Now he is talkin about 2 of the greatest players ever, lmao


30 or 40th best player? And then didn't do much after. Dude....
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#102 » by Sedale Threatt » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:44 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:Do you remember Jordan games? Every game, everywhere the camera's flashing, the just insanity every time they called his name. An they weren't bulls games, "we're going to see Jordan" was what people would say. Even if it was their home team...if you weren't a hardcore fan of the team of course.

No player has ever had to work around THAT! So yeah...I kinda sorta get G35's point. Awful thing that Pippen did, but having to work with the monster that MJ was AND to be under a shadow like nobody has or likely ever will see again, I can see why he did it.


I mean, I guess. I never had that kind of ego so I can't relate to needing to be "The Man." (I have plenty of other character defects to make up for that.) But again, we have had tons and tons and tons of egos come through the NBA over the years, all kinds of guys who were focused on touches and shots and roles, and again, I can't remember a single player begging off a crucial end-of-game possession in a playoff game like that. It's unheard of, regardless of circumstances. But if you had to come up with a list of players who might do that, Pippen would be on it given how indisputably thin-skinned and sensitive he is.

Even the need to write this book ... obviously "The Last Dance" was very much The Jordan Show. Other than Babe Ruth, we've probably never had an athlete glorified and mythologized to the extent he was. And he's extremely lucky for that, because it glossed over what a gaping @sshole he was, something that would get a LOT more attention today in the 24/7 mediascape. But at the same time, I thought Jordan bent over backwards in the doc to acknowledge Pippen. At one point he said something to the extent of, when you speak about me, you have to speak about Scottie too. And that's not me trying to defend Jordan; I was never a fan and I have zero respect for the way he treated people.

But at the same time, I don't really understand what Pippen is upset about outside of this being yet another example of him getting in his feelings about something.


I'm not per say defending Pippen here. What I'm more getting at is I don't think ANY teammates ever got over shadowed the way Pippen was. This guy was legit the second best win in basketball and a near MVP level guy was we saw in 94. He ended up all be that one season being the number two, heck Jordan didn't even miss games to let Pippen get a game here or there. Pippen never got a few years after MJ retired to be a star on a team because his back was completely screwed up.

My point is thus, we've just never seen someone have to deal with THAT. Does it make it right? No, but while I don't have a huge ego myself, I feel like if i were THAT good at something and it was so often glossed over...yeah I could get it.


Or you can argue that, just by virtue of playing alongside arguably the most popular and famous athlete in history, Pippen got a ton of exposure and credit that he otherwise wouldn't. I mean, that was a long time ago now, but I honestly don't remember Pippen being shunted aside or ignored. Overshadowed to a degree, obviously; that's gonna happen to any non-superduper star playing alongside somebody like Jordan. And as great as he was, Scottie wasn't a superduper star.

But I remember him getting a ton of credit and praise for what he did on those teams. I definitely don't remember anybody dismissing him as some interchangeable sidekick. While I agree that Pippen was going to be a great player regardless -- Jordan might have influenced him, but he didn't make him -- but it's hard to argue that his profile would have been much greater than playing an integral role on maybe the most popular team in the history of U.S. pro sports.

So I think it's pretty simple, frankly. Scottie has shown to be thin-skinned and sensitive throughout his career, to the point that he took the completely unprecedented act of skipping the deciding possession in a playoff game because he wasn't getting the last shot, and this is just the latest example.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#103 » by druggas » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:46 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:Most overrated, bitter and ungrateful player in NBA history.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#104 » by Sedale Threatt » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:46 pm

GoBobs wrote:Pip was like the 30-40th best player in the era he played.


That isn't even remotely close to accurate. Just for fun, I'd love to see who those 30-40 players might be.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#105 » by Petergrifindor » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:48 pm

Pippen being a petty little man, like always.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#106 » by magicman1978 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:49 pm

GoBobs wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
FreeThrowLine wrote:I loved Pippen the basketball player, but he’s shown over the years that he’s holding on to so much jealousy that he can’t move past.

He’s within his rights to give his side but there are some things which don’t require further explanation that showed how mentally weak Pippen could be in certain situations.

I’m not saying he needs to kiss the ground Jordan walks on, but there’s no doubt in my mind that Scottie starting his career anywhere else doesn’t have the success, fame or reputation that he ended up with


I strongly disagree. Sure he doesn't win 6 titles, but he'd have been the second best wing in the nba and he'd be much more respected as an offensive player and potentially defensive player had he had his own team to run.


Nah, he would have been 1b for most of the other teams in the league. People act like dude was the second best player in the Jordan era, but he wasn’t close to that. Robinson, Barkley, Shaq, Penny, Ewing, Miller, Dream, Stocton, Malone were all way way better than Pip just to name a few. Grant Hill, Glen Rice, Zo, prime Larry Johnson, there are so many guys from that era MJ could have won 6 tittles with as his number 2. Pip was like the 30-40th best player in the era he played. He proved it after the bulls broke up and he didn’t do much. Now he is talkin about 2 of the greatest players ever, lmao


Scottie was way, way better than top 30-40th in his era. He'd still be a top 50 player all time I think, but he'd also be scrutinized way more without the 6 titles. You don't get respect as an offensive player by putting up stat lines like the following in a playoff series consistently:

15ppg on 45%TS
15ppg on 43%TS
10ppg on 45%TS
16ppg on 49%TS
16ppg on 42%TS
17ppg on 50%TS
17ppg on 46%TS
12ppg on 48%TS

Yeah, he was the best perimeter defender of his time, probably of all time, but casual fans look more at offense and they focus more on playoff failures.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#107 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:55 pm

He got single coverage his whole career thanks to Jordan.

His numbers wouldn't be as good as first option.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#108 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:57 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
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I mean, I guess. I never had that kind of ego so I can't relate to needing to be "The Man." (I have plenty of other character defects to make up for that.) But again, we have had tons and tons and tons of egos come through the NBA over the years, all kinds of guys who were focused on touches and shots and roles, and again, I can't remember a single player begging off a crucial end-of-game possession in a playoff game like that. It's unheard of, regardless of circumstances. But if you had to come up with a list of players who might do that, Pippen would be on it given how indisputably thin-skinned and sensitive he is.

Even the need to write this book ... obviously "The Last Dance" was very much The Jordan Show. Other than Babe Ruth, we've probably never had an athlete glorified and mythologized to the extent he was. And he's extremely lucky for that, because it glossed over what a gaping @sshole he was, something that would get a LOT more attention today in the 24/7 mediascape. But at the same time, I thought Jordan bent over backwards in the doc to acknowledge Pippen. At one point he said something to the extent of, when you speak about me, you have to speak about Scottie too. And that's not me trying to defend Jordan; I was never a fan and I have zero respect for the way he treated people.

But at the same time, I don't really understand what Pippen is upset about outside of this being yet another example of him getting in his feelings about something.


I'm not per say defending Pippen here. What I'm more getting at is I don't think ANY teammates ever got over shadowed the way Pippen was. This guy was legit the second best win in basketball and a near MVP level guy was we saw in 94. He ended up all be that one season being the number two, heck Jordan didn't even miss games to let Pippen get a game here or there. Pippen never got a few years after MJ retired to be a star on a team because his back was completely screwed up.

My point is thus, we've just never seen someone have to deal with THAT. Does it make it right? No, but while I don't have a huge ego myself, I feel like if i were THAT good at something and it was so often glossed over...yeah I could get it.


Or you can argue that, just by virtue of playing alongside arguably the most popular and famous athlete in history, Pippen got a ton of exposure and credit that he otherwise wouldn't. I mean, that was a long time ago now, but I honestly don't remember Pippen being shunted aside or ignored. Overshadowed to a degree, obviously; that's gonna happen to any non-superduper star playing alongside somebody like Jordan. And as great as he was, Scottie wasn't a superduper star.

But I remember him getting a ton of credit and praise for what he did on those teams. I definitely don't remember anybody dismissing him as some interchangeable sidekick. While I agree that Pippen was going to be a great player regardless -- Jordan might have influenced him, but he didn't make him -- but it's hard to argue that his profile would have been much greater than playing an integral role on maybe the most popular team in the history of U.S. pro sports.

So I think it's pretty simple, frankly. Scottie has shown to be thin-skinned and sensitive throughout his career, to the point that he took the completely unprecedented act of skipping the deciding possession in a playoff game because he wasn't getting the last shot, and this is just the latest example.


I think you make my point. Why wasn't Pippen a super duper star? The guy in his one prime year without Jordan was 3rd in MVP voting. 4th in DPOY voting. He was 3rd in BPM and 9th in WS/48 and 4th in PER (he missed 10 games thus using the rate metrics). He was without a doubt a top 5 player in the world that year and he was the best wing in basketball, period. Despite all that, people want to paint him as a guy you can't build a franchise around. Think he couldn't have been the best player in a title team. It's not true. He was that good. I don't think he'd have ever been the best player in the league and he'd have needed a team like the Sonics, deep and talented to do it. But he could have done it.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#109 » by magicman1978 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:57 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
I mean, I guess. I never had that kind of ego so I can't relate to needing to be "The Man." (I have plenty of other character defects to make up for that.) But again, we have had tons and tons and tons of egos come through the NBA over the years, all kinds of guys who were focused on touches and shots and roles, and again, I can't remember a single player begging off a crucial end-of-game possession in a playoff game like that. It's unheard of, regardless of circumstances. But if you had to come up with a list of players who might do that, Pippen would be on it given how indisputably thin-skinned and sensitive he is.

Even the need to write this book ... obviously "The Last Dance" was very much The Jordan Show. Other than Babe Ruth, we've probably never had an athlete glorified and mythologized to the extent he was. And he's extremely lucky for that, because it glossed over what a gaping @sshole he was, something that would get a LOT more attention today in the 24/7 mediascape. But at the same time, I thought Jordan bent over backwards in the doc to acknowledge Pippen. At one point he said something to the extent of, when you speak about me, you have to speak about Scottie too. And that's not me trying to defend Jordan; I was never a fan and I have zero respect for the way he treated people.

But at the same time, I don't really understand what Pippen is upset about outside of this being yet another example of him getting in his feelings about something.


I'm not per say defending Pippen here. What I'm more getting at is I don't think ANY teammates ever got over shadowed the way Pippen was. This guy was legit the second best win in basketball and a near MVP level guy was we saw in 94. He ended up all be that one season being the number two, heck Jordan didn't even miss games to let Pippen get a game here or there. Pippen never got a few years after MJ retired to be a star on a team because his back was completely screwed up.

My point is thus, we've just never seen someone have to deal with THAT. Does it make it right? No, but while I don't have a huge ego myself, I feel like if i were THAT good at something and it was so often glossed over...yeah I could get it.


Or you can argue that, just by virtue of playing alongside arguably the most popular and famous athlete in history, Pippen got a ton of exposure and credit that he otherwise wouldn't. I mean, that was a long time ago now, but I honestly don't remember Pippen being shunted aside or ignored. Overshadowed to a degree, obviously; that's gonna happen to any non-superduper star playing alongside somebody like Jordan. And as great as he was, Scottie wasn't a superduper star.

But I remember him getting a ton of credit and praise for what he did on those teams. I definitely don't remember anybody dismissing him as some interchangeable sidekick. While I agree that Pippen was going to be a great player regardless -- Jordan might have influenced him, but he didn't make him -- but it's hard to argue that his profile would have been much greater than playing an integral role on maybe the most popular team in the history of U.S. pro sports.

So I think it's pretty simple, frankly. Scottie has shown to be thin-skinned and sensitive throughout his career, to the point that he took the completely unprecedented act of skipping the deciding possession in a playoff game because he wasn't getting the last shot, and this is just the latest example.


In the 90s, there were many people that were saying that Scottie was the second best player in the league, or top 5 at least. He doesn't get put there playing on another team. If he were not a part of that Bulls team, no one would have been putting him above Hakeem, Barkley, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, Malone, etc and they wouldn't have had him as clearly better players than guys like Drexler, Wilkins, Penny, etc. I just don't buy that Pippen's legacy was somehow diminished or his growth stunted from playing alongside Jordan. In fact, I think the most important thing in his development was his confidence and his work ethic - which I believe he picked up a lot on from Jordan (sometimes leading by example can work). In fact, maybe he was becoming over confident, because like Phil determined - Pippen was a great player in many areas, but he wasn't really the right guy to take that last shot.

Even when Jordan came back from baseball, he made sure to compliment Pippen, how he was the best player, and how the Bulls were now Scottie's team. He's always spoken highly of Pippen. Even in his HOF acceptance speech - first sentence he talks about how important Scottie was to his career. How often does anyone mention a specific teammate immediately in the first sentence of their HOF speech?
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#110 » by donnieme » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:00 pm

DavidSterned wrote:Pippen is so delusional.

Any time people bring up his "leadership" without MJ, I always go back to that 1995 season with the Bulls where Jordan swept into the rescue.

These clips are from the month before Jordan's return

;t=54s

;t=4s

The Bulls were 34-31 and barely clinging to relevance at that point, with a short tempered and short-sighted Pippen desperately looking for a way out.

Pippen still has a tough time reconciling facts like this, in addition to other regrettable moments in his career that he seems to refuse to face. Like the migraine, the bad decision to sign the long term contract, the play he sat out against NY, and his selfish behavior early in the Last Dance season where he delayed surgery and again publically demanded a trade



And people still have the nerve to question Jordan's role in guiding that team when the worst they could really say about him was that he liked to gamble and his competitiveness rose to dick levels?

Not one to Jordan worship but it's true Pippen always seemed in a state of discontent. Even when he left the Bulls it was drama on the Rockets. Takes two to tango but he was always in one form of disagreement

I personally won't ever get over a player refusing to check into a season defining possession because he wasn't allowed the final shot
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#111 » by Michael Jackson » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:09 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:Andrew Wiggins has all that athletic ability and tools too. How's it working out for him. You posit that Jordan held Pippen back? I don't think Pippen himself would support that argument. Jordan woke up early and worked out with Pippen and Harper everyday the second three peat. Pippen himself has never claimed he was held back by Jordan. P{open mostly is pouting over the migraine issues and generally folding under the pressure of the pistons and Knicks, and for being called out for purposely putting off his surgery to miss the season and screwing over the last championship team. No one in the world is going to argue that Jordan isn't a prick, well someone would but they can be quickly dismissed, but Pippen might hold the petulant title. All that being said he is still my favorite Bull of all time, but I listened to Charles Barkley when he said that players aren't role models.


I think wiggin's spacial awareness as well as just general IQ is a bit low for being a star. Could be something else, but he doesn't appear to understand where he needs to be nor can he process where he and others are on the floor. That's why Kerr to get use out of him had to make him play a role more often as the primary defender on the ball, it's easier to focus on the ball. Also helps that he's got dray screaming in his ear. Pippen while not the smartest guy himself imo, clearly had the BBIQ to run point and be just flat out deadly as a defender off ball.

I mean, while I get that MJ and the bull were among the first teams to implement weight training in season....I'm not sure that really moved the needle for Pippen's game like it did for MJ.

I'm sure Pippen wouldn't say MJ held him back. But none the less that seems like the most likely scenario if we're to assume any major changes. Pippen was a late bloomer who came into the league not fully developed offensively after growing so fast so late in life. Getting the opportunity to be a bigger focal point on offense could have only allowed him to improve those areas of his game. i'm sure MJ pushed him, but MJ pushed everyone...only Pippen turned out a first ballot hall of famer. Players find guys to mentor and develop them. I struggle to believe MJ was the best choice.

I fully don't believe this book is about this topic...I"m sure it's about what you mentioned. I'm just saying that if Pippen had played elsewhere I believe he'd be viewed as much more of a star player but less of a star resume/career if that makes sense.[/quote]


Yeah Pippen clearly had more BBIQ than Wiggins did and way more motivation and toughness. The motivation and toughness though is at least partially a credit to Jordan. I was sat down by my older sister and told how impactful the drafting of Pippen was (I was 11) and I followed him religiously. He was soft... I don't think that he becomes a top 50 without MJ. I understand your argument though as I honestly used to argue it (actually a lot in 94 when I would tell people MJ is only worth 2 wins) Still its hard to argue the fact that MJ and the teams they faced (Piston's and Knicks) made Pippen a killer. If he goes to Sacto does he develop like this? I don't think so but that is speculation. Does he do well if he goes to the Lakers and has Magic and Worthy mentoring him? I think so. His early career failures though were hauntingly bad. Watching him just fold was tough. The honed and prime pippin though and may favorite dunk ever, on Ewing. That was a different Pippen though than I think he would have been not playing with MJ. My second favorite dunk is actually Starks dunking on the whole Bulls team. God I miss good rivalries like that.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#112 » by Michael Jackson » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:12 pm

donnieme wrote:
I personally won't ever get over a player refusing to check into a season defining possession because he wasn't allowed the final shot



That was his worst moment for sure. I get it he hated Kukoc and hated Krause for doting on him (he was jealous because he was Krause's original apple of his eye) It still was a terrible terrible moment for him and said a lot about his strange character. That being said what he did on the court was simply perfect for that team. I just remember the look on Stocktons face post game after game one in 97... The Bulls are just too long. Harper, Pippen and Jordan swarming him, what a nightmare.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#113 » by VanWest82 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:13 pm

I was always highly suspicious of the migraine game but Pip bounced back the next year and kind of got snubbed for all star undeservedly. But where he (and Horace) really lost me was the 92/93 season. Both those guys pouted like little babies that year. MJ had to do everything for that team. Clearly they had things going on in the locker room but you still have to be professional and do your job. Pippen may have been the more well liked Bulls star but he definitely wasn't the real leader. He comes off as delusional sometimes talking about his role on those teams.

Edit: to those saying MJ held him back...maybe. Jordan provided cover for Scottie's lack of toughness. He gave all those guys cover to focus on roles best suited to their abilities, and shielded them from scrutiny. People forget but MJ took all the arrows until they won and kept taking them well after. It wasn't like today where we absolve Lebron immediately and just blame his teammates (usually the right answer btw just as it was with Jordan).

Anyways, I do agree that in a sense Jordan's greatness did hold guys like Scottie and Horace back sort of like being over-protective of your kids. People grow when you give them agency to try and fail on their own. I'd also argue though that Mike's crazy drive, work ethic, and obsession with winning pushed those guys in ways they otherwise wouldn't have been pushed, so in that sense he contributed to their growth as players and as people.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#114 » by GoBobs » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:30 pm

magicman1978 wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
I strongly disagree. Sure he doesn't win 6 titles, but he'd have been the second best wing in the nba and he'd be much more respected as an offensive player and potentially defensive player had he had his own team to run.


Nah, he would have been 1b for most of the other teams in the league. People act like dude was the second best player in the Jordan era, but he wasn’t close to that. Robinson, Barkley, Shaq, Penny, Ewing, Miller, Dream, Stocton, Malone were all way way better than Pip just to name a few. Grant Hill, Glen Rice, Zo, prime Larry Johnson, there are so many guys from that era MJ could have won 6 tittles with as his number 2. Pip was like the 30-40th best player in the era he played. He proved it after the bulls broke up and he didn’t do much. Now he is talkin about 2 of the greatest players ever, lmao


Scottie was way, way better than top 30-40th in his era. He'd still be a top 50 player all time I think, but he'd also be scrutinized way more without the 6 titles. You don't get respect as an offensive player by putting up stat lines like the following in a playoff series consistently:

15ppg on 45%TS
15ppg on 43%TS
10ppg on 45%TS
16ppg on 49%TS
16ppg on 42%TS
17ppg on 50%TS
17ppg on 46%TS
12ppg on 48%TS

Yeah, he was the best perimeter defender of his time, probably of all time, but casual fans look more at offense and they focus more on playoff failures.


Oh really? Best defender of his time on the edge? How many defensive mvps did he win? Oh, zero? One less than MJ, he wasn’t even the best defensive player on his team.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#115 » by HMFFL » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:36 pm

So, do I wait to find the book at Goodwill, or Dollar Stores around the country?

Create your narrative of how you believe we should view you Scottie. In was alive and watching at the time it happened.

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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#116 » by GoBobs » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:36 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
I strongly disagree. Sure he doesn't win 6 titles, but he'd have been the second best wing in the nba and he'd be much more respected as an offensive player and potentially defensive player had he had his own team to run.


Nah, he would have been 1b for most of the other teams in the league. People act like dude was the second best player in the Jordan era, but he wasn’t close to that. Robinson, Barkley, Shaq, Penny, Ewing, Miller, Dream, Stocton, Malone were all way way better than Pip just to name a few. Grant Hill, Glen Rice, Zo, prime Larry Johnson, there are so many guys from that era MJ could have won 6 tittles with as his number 2. Pip was like the 30-40th best player in the era he played. He proved it after the bulls broke up and he didn’t do much. Now he is talkin about 2 of the greatest players ever, lmao


30 or 40th best player? And then didn't do much after. Dude....

Yeah bro I even watched that **** unfold, great player, just another guy in the big scheme of things
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#117 » by Sedale Threatt » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:47 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
I'm not per say defending Pippen here. What I'm more getting at is I don't think ANY teammates ever got over shadowed the way Pippen was. This guy was legit the second best win in basketball and a near MVP level guy was we saw in 94. He ended up all be that one season being the number two, heck Jordan didn't even miss games to let Pippen get a game here or there. Pippen never got a few years after MJ retired to be a star on a team because his back was completely screwed up.

My point is thus, we've just never seen someone have to deal with THAT. Does it make it right? No, but while I don't have a huge ego myself, I feel like if i were THAT good at something and it was so often glossed over...yeah I could get it.


Or you can argue that, just by virtue of playing alongside arguably the most popular and famous athlete in history, Pippen got a ton of exposure and credit that he otherwise wouldn't. I mean, that was a long time ago now, but I honestly don't remember Pippen being shunted aside or ignored. Overshadowed to a degree, obviously; that's gonna happen to any non-superduper star playing alongside somebody like Jordan. And as great as he was, Scottie wasn't a superduper star.

But I remember him getting a ton of credit and praise for what he did on those teams. I definitely don't remember anybody dismissing him as some interchangeable sidekick. While I agree that Pippen was going to be a great player regardless -- Jordan might have influenced him, but he didn't make him -- but it's hard to argue that his profile would have been much greater than playing an integral role on maybe the most popular team in the history of U.S. pro sports.

So I think it's pretty simple, frankly. Scottie has shown to be thin-skinned and sensitive throughout his career, to the point that he took the completely unprecedented act of skipping the deciding possession in a playoff game because he wasn't getting the last shot, and this is just the latest example.


I think you make my point. Why wasn't Pippen a super duper star? The guy in his one prime year without Jordan was 3rd in MVP voting. 4th in DPOY voting. He was 3rd in BPM and 9th in WS/48 and 4th in PER (he missed 10 games thus using the rate metrics). He was without a doubt a top 5 player in the world that year and he was the best wing in basketball, period. Despite all that, people want to paint him as a guy you can't build a franchise around. Think he couldn't have been the best player in a title team. It's not true. He was that good. I don't think he'd have ever been the best player in the league and he'd have needed a team like the Sonics, deep and talented to do it. But he could have done it.


Because he wasn't consistently in that top, top tier. Advanced stats have nothing to do with your teammates, so whether he was lining up with Jordan or not doesn't make any difference there. And for the most part he was more of a top 10ish type guy rather than a consistent, perennial super elite, of which there are only a small handful in the NBA at any given time. Those type of players are usually have high 20s/low 30s PER, and Pippen was consistently in the low 20s. Glancing through the rest of his stuff, it all looks excellent but I bet it generally tracks with that. And that's fine. He was an awesome player, easily one of the best of his era and I'd have no problem slotting him into the Top 30 overall. I don't think any of that is particularly outrageous or insulting.

Whether you could have built a championship team around him, I don't know. It's easy to argue in favor of things that never happened. I can see him being in the right place at the right time and being the lead guy on an ensemble type championship team. But those teams are hard to build and extremely rare. So in the standard format with a couple of top-tier studs and a supporting cast of really good role players, no, I don't see him filling that lead role. I think the Bulls were an absolutely perfect spot for a player of his caliber. It's unfortunate he feels slighted over that.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#118 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:49 pm

Pippen loves the last dance, now he gets to capitalize on it and ‘write a book’ that nobody was asking for.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#119 » by Got Nuffin » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:59 am

GoBobs wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
FreeThrowLine wrote:I loved Pippen the basketball player, but he’s shown over the years that he’s holding on to so much jealousy that he can’t move past.

He’s within his rights to give his side but there are some things which don’t require further explanation that showed how mentally weak Pippen could be in certain situations.

I’m not saying he needs to kiss the ground Jordan walks on, but there’s no doubt in my mind that Scottie starting his career anywhere else doesn’t have the success, fame or reputation that he ended up with


I strongly disagree. Sure he doesn't win 6 titles, but he'd have been the second best wing in the nba and he'd be much more respected as an offensive player and potentially defensive player had he had his own team to run.


Nah, he would have been 1b for most of the other teams in the league. People act like dude was the second best player in the Jordan era, but he wasn’t close to that. Robinson, Barkley, Shaq, Penny, Ewing, Miller, Dream, Stocton, Malone were all way way better than Pip just to name a few. Grant Hill, Glen Rice, Zo, prime Larry Johnson, there are so many guys from that era MJ could have won 6 tittles with as his number 2. Pip was like the 30-40th best player in the era he played. He proved it after the bulls broke up and he didn’t do much. Now he is talkin about 2 of the greatest players ever, lmao


Just came in to agree with this. Strange that Pippen rankled at being called a 'sidekick' to the GOAT, yet on any contending team he would also have been a 'sidekick' or a 1b. He never had the offensive chops the way Kawhi today does to just carry a team to contention.

I also don't think he develops into the player he became without MJ and Phil, because his personality in the early days was seen as 'soft' and going to some badly run team losing 50 games every year would likely do nothing to counter that.

Pippen was one of the best players of that era because he was an ideal sidekick for any offensive-minded All Star and his defensive skill was incredible.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#120 » by Goose egg » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:36 am

Got Nuffin wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
I strongly disagree. Sure he doesn't win 6 titles, but he'd have been the second best wing in the nba and he'd be much more respected as an offensive player and potentially defensive player had he had his own team to run.


Nah, he would have been 1b for most of the other teams in the league. People act like dude was the second best player in the Jordan era, but he wasn’t close to that. Robinson, Barkley, Shaq, Penny, Ewing, Miller, Dream, Stocton, Malone were all way way better than Pip just to name a few. Grant Hill, Glen Rice, Zo, prime Larry Johnson, there are so many guys from that era MJ could have won 6 tittles with as his number 2. Pip was like the 30-40th best player in the era he played. He proved it after the bulls broke up and he didn’t do much. Now he is talkin about 2 of the greatest players ever, lmao


Just came in to agree with this. Strange that Pippen rankled at being called a 'sidekick' to the GOAT, yet on any contending team he would also have been a 'sidekick' or a 1b. He never had the offensive chops the way Kawhi today does to just carry a team to contention.

I also don't think he develops into the player he became without MJ and Phil, because his personality in the early days was seen as 'soft' and going to some badly run team losing 50 games every year would likely do nothing to counter that.

Pippen was one of the best players of that era because he was an ideal sidekick for any offensive-minded All Star and his defensive skill was incredible.


scottie led 94 bulls to 2 seed on 22/8/5 with 3steals a game. and they absolutely were in contention, bad reffing eliminated them vs the knicks who then lost 4-3 vs the eventual champion rockets

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