dhsilv2 wrote:Andrew Wiggins has all that athletic ability and tools too. How's it working out for him. You posit that Jordan held Pippen back? I don't think Pippen himself would support that argument. Jordan woke up early and worked out with Pippen and Harper everyday the second three peat. Pippen himself has never claimed he was held back by Jordan. P{open mostly is pouting over the migraine issues and generally folding under the pressure of the pistons and Knicks, and for being called out for purposely putting off his surgery to miss the season and screwing over the last championship team. No one in the world is going to argue that Jordan isn't a prick, well someone would but they can be quickly dismissed, but Pippen might hold the petulant title. All that being said he is still my favorite Bull of all time, but I listened to Charles Barkley when he said that players aren't role models.
I think wiggin's spacial awareness as well as just general IQ is a bit low for being a star. Could be something else, but he doesn't appear to understand where he needs to be nor can he process where he and others are on the floor. That's why Kerr to get use out of him had to make him play a role more often as the primary defender on the ball, it's easier to focus on the ball. Also helps that he's got dray screaming in his ear. Pippen while not the smartest guy himself imo, clearly had the BBIQ to run point and be just flat out deadly as a defender off ball.
I mean, while I get that MJ and the bull were among the first teams to implement weight training in season....I'm not sure that really moved the needle for Pippen's game like it did for MJ.
I'm sure Pippen wouldn't say MJ held him back. But none the less that seems like the most likely scenario if we're to assume any major changes. Pippen was a late bloomer who came into the league not fully developed offensively after growing so fast so late in life. Getting the opportunity to be a bigger focal point on offense could have only allowed him to improve those areas of his game. i'm sure MJ pushed him, but MJ pushed everyone...only Pippen turned out a first ballot hall of famer. Players find guys to mentor and develop them. I struggle to believe MJ was the best choice.
I fully don't believe this book is about this topic...I"m sure it's about what you mentioned. I'm just saying that if Pippen had played elsewhere I believe he'd be viewed as much more of a star player but less of a star resume/career if that makes sense.[/quote]
Yeah Pippen clearly had more BBIQ than Wiggins did and way more motivation and toughness. The motivation and toughness though is at least partially a credit to Jordan. I was sat down by my older sister and told how impactful the drafting of Pippen was (I was 11) and I followed him religiously. He was soft... I don't think that he becomes a top 50 without MJ. I understand your argument though as I honestly used to argue it (actually a lot in 94 when I would tell people MJ is only worth 2 wins) Still its hard to argue the fact that MJ and the teams they faced (Piston's and Knicks) made Pippen a killer. If he goes to Sacto does he develop like this? I don't think so but that is speculation. Does he do well if he goes to the Lakers and has Magic and Worthy mentoring him? I think so. His early career failures though were hauntingly bad. Watching him just fold was tough. The honed and prime pippin though and may favorite dunk ever, on Ewing. That was a different Pippen though than I think he would have been not playing with MJ. My second favorite dunk is actually Starks dunking on the whole Bulls team. God I miss good rivalries like that.