Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread (Part 2)

[jayu70]

I would be interested in Dennis for Covington and Canaan and their 23rd pick from the Sixers.

a month ago, sure. Not now post-Ish.

Saw this trade idea somewhere else:

It's a smaller trade - Shelvin Mack and Mike Muscala for Grant and Holmes. Mack as a viable back up to Ish, Muscala as a big with shooting range to spread the floor for Okafor and Noel.

[jbent87]

I would be interested in Dennis for Covington and Canaan and their 23rd pick from the Sixers.

a month ago, sure. Not now post-Ish.

Saw this trade idea somewhere else:

It's a smaller trade - Shelvin Mack and Mike Muscala for Grant and Holmes. Mack as a viable back up to Ish, Muscala as a big with shooting range to spread the floor for Okafor and Noel.

I don't think Sixers are looking for the backup to Ish so much as they're looking for the starter so Ish can return to back up.

We had Shelvin Mack a couple seasons ago too, I don't think Hinkie considers him along with Muscala valuable enough to give up a potential diamond in the rough in Richaun Holmes and shot-blocker/tweener Grant for, both of which have bigger upside than the players we'd be receiving.

[jayu70]

a month ago, sure. Not now post-Ish.

Saw this trade idea somewhere else:

It's a smaller trade - Shelvin Mack and Mike Muscala for Grant and Holmes. Mack as a viable back up to Ish, Muscala as a big with shooting range to spread the floor for Okafor and Noel.

I don't think Sixers are looking for the backup to Ish so much as they're looking for the starter so Ish can return to back up.

We had Shelvin Mack a couple seasons ago too, I don't think Hinkie considers him along with Muscala valuable enough to give up a potential diamond in the rough in Richaun Holmes and shot-blocker/tweener Grant for, both of which have bigger upside than the players we'd be receiving.

Is Hinkie still in charge though, lol.

I guess when I look at the sixers, they have guys who all do the same thing, they need more balance. It may not be enough value like you said.

What the deal with Covington? Is he available or even Jakaar? What would be considered good value for either the 3 SFs on your roster, the Hawks need one, lol. Plus Saric who might be coming over next season, is he a SF or PF.

[Jamaaliver]

What the deal with Covington? What would be considered good value for either the 3 SFs on your roster, the Hawks need one, lol. Plus Saric who might be coming over next season, is he a SF or PF?

I think very highly of Saric and what he can be moving forward.

I'd give up Teague for Saric, straight up without...batting an eye.

I'd give up Dennis and the MInny pick for Saric, straight up.

That young man has some potential...and it's gonna get wasted in that logjam of young frontcourt players in Philly.

[jayu70]

What the deal with Covington? What would be considered good value for either the 3 SFs on your roster, the Hawks need one, lol. Plus Saric who might be coming over next season, is he a SF or PF?

I think very highly of Saric and what he can be moving forward.

I'd give up Teague for Saric, straight up without...batting an eye.

I'd give up Dennis and the MInny pick for Saric, straight up.

That young man has some potential...and it's gonna get wasted in that logjam of young frontcourt players in Philly.

I'd do Teague for Saric.
I'd prefer to keep Dennis and his future potential and growth. Teague seems to have reached his high point.

[Jamaaliver]

I think very highly of Saric and what he can be moving forward.

I'd give up Teague for Saric, straight up without...batting an eye.

I'd do Teague for Saric.
I'd prefer to keep Dennis and his future potential and growth. Teague seems to have reached his high point.

Interesting. Seems you've come around on the whole Trade Teague debate in just a few months.

Teague's stock was even higher last summer. I hope Wes and Bud at least CONSIDERED the possibility this might be coming at some point soon.

That's funny - what drastic improvements are Indy and Mia making? It always amuses me that all other team will make improvements except the Hawks.
Trading Teague is not the issue, it's what you get in return is the issue at hand. Trading Teague for a rookie won't get us closer to winning the championship in 2015-16.

[jayu70]

I think very highly of Saric and what he can be moving forward.

I'd give up Teague for Saric, straight up without...batting an eye.

I'd do Teague for Saric.
I'd prefer to keep Dennis and his future potential and growth. Teague seems to have reached his high point.

Interesting. Seems you've come around on the whole Trade Teague debate in just a few months.

Teague's stock was even higher last summer. I hope Wes and Bud at least CONSIDERED the possibility this might be coming at some point soon.

That's funny - what drastic improvements are Indy and Mia making? It always amuses me that all other team will make improvements except the Hawks.
Trading Teague is not the issue, it's what you get in return is the issue at hand. Trading Teague for a rookie won't get us closer to winning the championship in 2015-16.

My stance is the same. Like I said then and like you posted I took NO issue with trading him. It's the value you get in return before the season started where Saric would not be able to help immediately considering we were coming off our first ECFs. The way things are now I'm looking forward.

[Jamaaliver]

My stance is the same. Like I said then and like you posted I took NO issue with trading him. It's the value you get in return before the season started where Saric would not be able to help immediately considering we were coming off our first ECFs. The way things are now I'm looking forward.

And every bit of that is reasonable.

I just hate that the FO felt obligated to simply build upon last year's squad instead of simply improving the roster outright in whatever direction they liked.

We were naïve to believe the other powers in the East would stay down, and the Hawks would just waltz back into the ECF.

For us to realize a mere two months into the following season...means the guys in charge either felt pressured to try the exact same thing with minor tweaks.

Or simply lack foresight.

[jayu70]

My stance is the same. Like I said then and like you posted I took NO issue with trading him. It's the value you get in return before the season started where Saric would not be able to help immediately considering we were coming off our first ECFs. The way things are now I'm looking forward.

And every bit of that is reasonable.

I just hate that the FO felt obligated to simply build upon last year's squad instead of simply improving the roster outright in whatever direction they liked.

We were naïve to believe the other powers in the East would stay down, and the Hawks would just waltz back into the ECF.

For us to realize a mere two months into the following season...means the guys in charge either felt pressured to try the exact same thing with minor tweaks.

Or simply lack foresight.

A major part of the problem is the struggles of Jeff and Al. Teague was expected to take the next step. Al, one year removed from surgery and a full season in Buds system. They should be giving us more and more consistently.
Then throw Kyle in who can't hit anything. It's the trickle down effect. Only Paul Millsap has played up to expectations.

[Jamaaliver]

A major part of the problem is the struggles of Jeff and Al. Teague was expected to take the next step. Al, one year removed from surgery and a full season in Buds system. They should be giving us more and more consistently.

True story: AL is giving us pretty much the exact same production at the exact same efficiency across the board.

His season stats, per 36 minute stats, advanced stats, per 100 possession stats...pretty much all the same.

The only difference is a noticeable drop in FG% because of all the threes he's shooting.

He is doing the exact same as last year. The only difference is that THE TEAM was in first place, on a hot streak and the talk of the league.

I'm telling you, Dec & Jan last season skewed so much in how we perceive, remember EVERYTHING.

[jbent87]

Saw this trade idea somewhere else:

It's a smaller trade - Shelvin Mack and Mike Muscala for Grant and Holmes. Mack as a viable back up to Ish, Muscala as a big with shooting range to spread the floor for Okafor and Noel.

I don't think Sixers are looking for the backup to Ish so much as they're looking for the starter so Ish can return to back up.

We had Shelvin Mack a couple seasons ago too, I don't think Hinkie considers him along with Muscala valuable enough to give up a potential diamond in the rough in Richaun Holmes and shot-blocker/tweener Grant for, both of which have bigger upside than the players we'd be receiving.

Is Hinkie still in charge though, lol.

I guess when I look at the sixers, they have guys who all do the same thing, they need more balance. It may not be enough value like you said.

What the deal with Covington? Is he available or even Jakaar? What would be considered good value for either the 3 SFs on your roster, the Hawks need one, lol. Plus Saric who might be coming over next season, is he a SF or PF.

The thing Hinkie loves about Covington is his contract. He's making pennies the next two seasons and he's started for us almost all of this season and has done well until lately. He's in a bad slump right now and isn't playing a whole lot. Jakarr has played more and does a little bit of everything, just doesnt excel at any one of those things. The appeal with Saric is he's a point forward whos shot has improved. I'm sure hes not really available unless its a haul as it sounds like he's finally coming over next year.

[MaceCase]

A major part of the problem is the struggles of Jeff and Al. Teague was expected to take the next step. Al, one year removed from surgery and a full season in Buds system. They should be giving us more and more consistently.

True story: AL is giving us pretty much the exact same production at the exact same efficiency across the board.

His season stats, per 36 minute stats, advanced stats, per 100 possession stats...pretty much all the same.

The only difference is a noticeable drop in FG% because of all the threes he's shooting.

He is doing the exact same as last year. The only difference is that THE TEAM was in first place, on a hot streak and the talk of the league.

I'm telling you, Dec & Jan last season skewed so much in how we perceive, remember EVERYTHING.

You missed his point on that Al is expected to do more. It wasn't a lack of foresight to have expected Al and Dennis to have progressed in the system and Teague to have at minimum maintained most of his peak heading into his prime. That alone should have had the Hawks keeping up with most of the pace that they set last season or at minimum still placing them comfortably ahead of the rest of the non-Cav East.

Looking solely at the win-record is an entirely simplistic argument because you are choosing to overlook that most of the parts on the Hawks weren't playing at their maximum ability even though the team was setting records in just wins. There was only an expected regression from Kyle and Thabo, the two older guys in the rotation coming off injury, but not even the greatest cynic would have said "we've seen the absolute best from Al, Dennis and Jeffrey and there's absolutely nowhere else left for them to go from here but down." If they happened to have said that then I would like to see evidence of their foresight, all I can remember is that type of foresight being applied to Millsap's decline and he's above and beyond blown that away.

[Jamaaliver]

You missed his point on that Al is expected to do more. It wasn't a lack of foresight to have expected Al and Dennis to have progressed in the system and Teague to have at minimum maintained most of his peak heading into his prime. That alone should have had the Hawks keeping up with most of the pace that they set last season or at minimum still placing them comfortably ahead of the rest of the non-Cav East.

Looking solely at the win-record is an entirely simplistic argument because you are choosing to overlook that most of the parts on the Hawks weren't playing at their maximum ability even though the team was setting records in just wins. There was only an expected regression from Kyle and Thabo, the two older guys in the rotation coming off injury, but not even the greatest cynic would have said "we've seen the absolute best from Al, Dennis and Jeffrey and there's absolutely nowhere else left for them to go from here but down." If they happened to have said that then I would like to see evidence of their foresight, all I can remember is that type of foresight being applied to Millsap's decline and he's above and beyond blown that away.

There is so much in there I disagree with....

I'm just gonna save us all some trouble:

I respectfully disagree with you.

...I simply don't see Teague improving much from the 17 & 7 he gives us now. I don't see the team improving much with this exact same core.

My fear...we're secretly still a treadmill team and don't know it. If AL doesn't get a single putback bucket in Game 5 against WAS...we likely don't make it past Round 2 this year.

Last Summer

I sure hope Bud has the chutzpah to be aggressive in acquiring talent this summer. Simply Remaining the course will see diminishing returns next season now that the entire league has seen our weaknesses exploited.

Staying the course will not win us a title.

Especially not when MIA and Indy will be back and stronger next season. And CLE will be even more experienced for next year's playoffs.

Moving JT0 is the single best avenue for LONG TERM improvement. Gain a valuable asset. Gain cap space.

Standing pat while every other team in the East attempts to improve is a surefire way to becoming a treadmill team once again.

Last Summer

My fear is that if we stand pat while the entire Eastern Conference reloads, we get bypassed by MIA, Indy.

So while other teams seek dramatic improvement this offseason, standing pat yet again definitely has it's risks. Bringing back an older Thabo, an older Korver to this same core...doesn't get us closer to a title.

Last Summer

But with Teague's age and contract, if we are ever gonna trade him, this is the time.

I've watched Teague for five (6?) years. I believe this is the best he'll ever be. I think he's not much better than Ty Lawson.

Last Summer

Saying it for years. Teague is a good young player. But he is not enough to carry this team to the next level.

He is our best trade chip and we are a flawed team. Time to move him while the getting is good. A year from now will be too late.

Last Summer

Teague put up good but not great production in the regular season, but has struggled in these playoffs. He's plateaued as far as his potential. Based on age, contract, production...this is it. This is the peak of his stock.

Last Summer

I'm torn on re-signing Millsap. He's been great, but do we really see him as the linchpin in a championship caliber frontcourt? Will we see enough increase in production to warrant a 75% raise in pay?

We also need a perimeter player with size capable of creating his own shot and knocking down outside shots.

And I'm more convinced than ever we need to trade Teague. His trade value largely stayed the same this year. With two years left on his contract and him in his prime...there won't be a better time to do it.

He is far and away our most valuable trade chip.

Last Summer

[MaceCase]

Perhaps I need to selectively quote myself:

not even the greatest cynic would have said "we've seen the absolute best from Al, Dennis and Jeffrey and there's absolutely nowhere else left for them to go from here but down."

Again even you, as the greatest cynic, did very little to predict either of Al or Dennis having plateaued last season. You saved all of your attention for everyone else but them. This isn't surprising given that you are likely Al and Dennis' biggest fanboy but one of the biggest reasons why the Hawks are in the midst of the season that they are having is solely because of them, which again, you did little to predict.

So really, while you chastise the front office for not blowing up the team after their most successful season ever you should be chastising yourself for not having the foresight to have rallied harder for both Dennis and Al to have been traded at their peaks last season.

[Jamaaliver]

Again even you, as the greatest cynic...

First of all....THANKS

You're pretty great yourself, handsome.

...one of the biggest reasons why the Hawks are in the midst of the season that they are having is solely because of [AL & Dennis], which again, you did little to predict. So really, while you chastise the front office for not blowing up the team after their most successful season ever you should be chastising yourself for not having the foresight to have rallied harder for both Dennis and Al to have been traded at their peaks last season.

I don't really follow. We're a winning team, top ten record in the NBA, top 10 OFF Eff. Same Def Eff as last year.

AL's production is literally identical to his production from last year.

I don't believe for a moment that DS has peaked at age 22. He's coming off one of the finest months of his career. For the season, Schroder's avg career highs in points, assists, and rebounds.

The difference this year: Teague's struggles with that lingering ankle injury has limited his effectiveness. KK's struggling from deep has bogged down the offense.

Plus the rest of the EAST got more competitive.

But I don't see either AL or DEnnis as having peaked yet. (Though Horford's prime is ending soon. He probably has another 18-24 months of top flight play left.)

[MaceCase]

So what you're saying is that the doom and gloom is unwarranted and that despite stagnation and regression the Hawks still remain amongst the top 3rd of the league thus justifying management's decision not to punt on the season? Thank you, you can be reasonable when you want to.

[jayu70]

Like MaceCase said I expected "better/more" from Al and Teague.
Telling me Al's numbers are similar to last year is making my point. Al was coming off injury last year so MY expectations were tempered. This season I had higher expectations.
Teague isn't even giving us a CONSISTENT "17/7" he's way off the mark.
Millsap is having a career year all across the board - Al and Teague just isn't giving what I expected considering where they are in their careers.

[Jamaaliver]

Like MaceCase said I expected "better/more" from Al and Teague.
Telling me Al's numbers are similar to last year is making my point. Al was coming off injury last year so MY expectations were tempered. This season I had higher expectations.
Teague isn't even giving us a CONSISTENT "17/7" he's way off the mark.
Millsap is having a career year all across the board - Al and Teague just isn't giving what I expected considering where they are in their careers.

I suppose. I do wonder a bit if Millsap's emergence has somewhat come at the expense of Horford's production.

I mostly see our backcourt struggles as the primary impetus for our return to 2nd tier status. Combined with our drop in 3-pt shooting, our difficulty rebounding and the return to form of Indy, MIA and CHI.

Our problem in the playoffs was that we were much less talented than the elite teams. We still haven't addressed the talent deficit.

Where we are today, in my estimation, was the only logical result without an infusion of talent.

[jayu70]

Like MaceCase said I expected "better/more" from Al and Teague.
Telling me Al's numbers are similar to last year is making my point. Al was coming off injury last year so MY expectations were tempered. This season I had higher expectations.
Teague isn't even giving us a CONSISTENT "17/7" he's way off the mark.
Millsap is having a career year all across the board - Al and Teague just isn't giving what I expected considering where they are in their careers.

I do wonder a bit if Millsap's emergence has somewhat come at the expense of Horford's production.

No, i don't my see that. My problem with Al has been his activity, focus, intensity and inconsistency, that has nothing to do with Millsap.

'Teague time' occurs in about a quarter of every 5 games - that's just not good enough.

[Jamaaliver]

My problem with Al has been his activity, focus, intensity and inconsistency, that has nothing to do with Millsap.

'Teague time' occurs in about a quarter of every 5 games - that's just not good enough.

That's a fair point.

AL seems like he might be working himself out of his early season malaise. He dropped 33 against the Bulls last night and his avg 21 and 9 Rebs in his last five games.

Just in time to make a serious case for his 4th All Star Selection.

I'd like to see us play more through AL and focus more on mid-range and interior play.


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